And yet another, seems there is always another......

[GAN]

Just lightening the mood in a toxic debate. So sue me.

I believe that was for me! We already had some fun over it....

 

[GAN]

Nice job dodging the question. Are you part politician? I'll ask it again... If someone has already decided to conduct a major criminal act, do you think they would say "since I can't get the weapon I need legally, I won't do it"?

Sam.... Smart *** answers may get a grin or a grimace, but doesn't do much to help discussion.

 

[sam_gordon]

Sam.... Smart *** answers may get a grin or a grimace, but doesn't do much to help discussion.

Touché!

 

[mrodgers]

Way too political for me to post opinions-- Just got a week time out for posting factual info regarding the Reedy District situation.

I definitely suggest it starts to tone down in here. It's building up pretty good now, not that I have a problem with it. Just don't want to see people getting caught up in it too far and get in trouble.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

FWIW the numbers are from 2020 which we have to keep in mind the pandemic because we know just about everywhere had an increase in violence although yes I'm sure we can draw trends from years past.

You can change the year on the CDC website but the map doesn't look very different. Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi are always near the top. California is never near the top.

But CDC caveats their data with: "Although adjusted for differences in age-distribution and population size, rankings by state do not take into account other state specific population characteristics that may affect the level of mortality. When the number of deaths is small, rankings by state may be unreliable due to instability in death rates."

Just be careful about confirmation bias. Where I live the gun laws are extremely similar to the next state to me. But the do not have the same issues. Pertinent to the topic about killing others which would translate to the homicide rate this is the map
View attachment 735175

I remember looking up stats for my state and predominantly it was suicide. Look at Wyoming for instance which has a much different homicide rate compared to the firearm deaths. Firearm deaths is about deaths connected to guns but is not separated out who is killed. Homicide deaths is about killing of others but does not separate out the method and who is killed.

Now if we're trying to help people not kill themselves with fire arms we can look into ways to help. It's just about looking more into stats because it's really easy to get too high level overview and if you're looking to improve things knowing exactly what causes what, what is the main driver, is of utmost importance, well at least it is to me.

You're digging way deeper into this than I intended to ever get. Agree completely there are a ton of factors and comparing stats at a state level is a bad way of doing it. My point was more just to correct a poster that claimed California was the worst with a side point (which your graph also shows) that the map implied the opposite of what the poster was claiming.

Both of our maps also look a bit like the median income map of the US. I don't think that is a coincidence either.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My point was more just to correct a poster that claimed California was the worst with a side point (which your graph also shows) that the map implied the opposite of what the poster was claiming.

Oh I agree there it's just you added in "A basic understanding of gun laws should tell you that the correlation is the opposite of what you're claiming in your posts" so I spoke to that.

As far as income while income level in CA may be high it's also extremely expensive to live in and has a real issue with homeless. In fact the highest rate of homelessness is in CA and information released earlier this month says between 2020 and 2022 the rate of homelessness in CA grew more than any other state. So yes CA may make very high $$$ but they can't really afford it in the end.

 

[Disneychick13]

The bolded is completely false. California ranks 44th in firearm death rate.

Source:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

Also, the national map of firearm death rate is very telling. A basic understanding of gun laws should tell you that the correlation is the opposite of what you're claiming in your posts.
View attachment 735167

Well Texas and Illinois have almost identical stats and Illinois has the 7th strictest guns laws in the country so I’m not really sure that the map says what you think it does either. DC isn’t on there either and its guns laws are strict but their death rate is in the 40’s. I think it would be fair to say that there are many factors that influence gun deaths by state, gun laws probably being one of them, but clearly not the only (or even the most significant) one.

But your assertion that CA has a lower gun death rate than many other states is indeed correct. All that being said, I do agree with some of the gun laws in California. I like the 10 day waiting period as well as there being a requirement for only licensed dealers to sell firearms (there is an exception for transfers between immediate family members). I do like the red flag laws but have concerns about the potential for them to be abused. I think the biggest concern for most gun owners is not having modest and common sense restrictions. The big concern is the fear that their right to “keep and bear arms” will be chiseled away little by little. And I think that is a valid fear.

 

[Dakota731]

On the news today - an Amazon driver robbed at gun point by two men who both have long criminal histories and share 85 felony charges and 11 felony convictions between the two of them. Could be just me but I think that maybe our soft on crime stance in this country the past few years may be part of the problem. I miss the old days of three strikes and you’re out!

 

[Dakota731]

Strict gun laws in one state don't help that much when someone can just go one state over and legally buy an arsenal.

Or make them online or steal them from someone else. What makes you think criminals will hand in their guns if another gun law (adding to the hundreds already on the books in this country) is enacted. But as long as people are pretending to solve the problem then that’s all that matters nowadays.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Or make them online

I do have to say even just 2-3 years ago the police in various departments in my area were saying basically that yes ghost guns were starting to appear more but they weren't at the point where they felt legislation may be needed. I think though after more and more incidents with ghost guns we do need something. They are like the gray area here not yet widely dealt with.

 

[Mysterian]

The bolded is completely false. California ranks 44th in firearm death rate.

Source:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

Also, the national map of firearm death rate is very telling. A basic understanding of gun laws should tell you that the correlation is the opposite of what you're claiming in your posts.
View attachment 735167

How are these midwestern states more violent than Florida?
Florida crime reports are the stuff of legends!
Rhode Island's technically pretty bad at 3.4 -<8.44, since there's only 15 people in the entire state.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

How are these midwestern states more violent than Florida?
Florida crime reports are the stuff of legends!
Rhode Island's technically pretty bad at 3.4 -<8.44, since there's only 15 people in the entire state.

MO has KCMO and STL which are very high crime parts.

FL has crime but probably not as much gang, vendetta, drive by's, drug deals, and the like. They take the cake in weird stuff for sure though

 

[Mysterian]

MO has KCMO and STL which are very high crime parts.

FL has crime but probably not as much gang, vendetta, drive by's, drug deals, and the like. They take the cake in weird stuff for sure though

Yes there will never be another Florida, I don't know how they do it.

Wow, Midwest is blowing my mind.

FBI's Top 10 Most Dangerous Cities in the Midwest

• St. Louis, Mo., pop. 314,507.
• Kansas City, Mo., pop. 478,364.
• Rockford, Ill., pop. 147,363.
• Milwaukee, Wisc., pop. 600,193.
• Minneapolis, Minn., pop. 416,751.
• Lansing, Mich., pop. 115,199.
• Chicago, Ill., pop. 2,725,153.
• South Bend, Ind., pop. 101,621.

Why so high, Midwest?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes there will never be another Florida, I don't know how they do it.

Wow, Midwest is blowing my mind.

FBI's Top 10 Most Dangerous Cities in the Midwest

• St. Louis, Mo., pop. 314,507.
• Kansas City, Mo., pop. 478,364.
• Rockford, Ill., pop. 147,363.
• Milwaukee, Wisc., pop. 600,193.
• Minneapolis, Minn., pop. 416,751.
• Lansing, Mich., pop. 115,199.
• Chicago, Ill., pop. 2,725,153.
• South Bend, Ind., pop. 101,621.

Why so high, Midwest?

I can only speak towards KCMO and STL although KCK also has high enough crime. It's largely those reasons I listed. I posted a lengthy in-depth article pages back that one of the main newspapers here did on the crime issues in KCMO if anyone has a chance to read it it's one that really helps understand that while gun laws play a part just creating stricter ones is like a band-aid without giving care to anything else. There's also been a big tug and war between the police and the mayor over time, some for good reasons others not. Where I live the crime rate is much much lower (a lot more car thefts/break-ins style stuff) but we touch the borders and citizens here cross city and state lines nearly daily.

One thing to note is KCMO def. has its corruption issues. My husband and I were just reading an article (anther in-depth one) from the same main newspapers (KC Star) about the whole KCI airport mess in which the truly crazy details are only just coming out due to arbitration in lieu of court. If anyone has a chance to read it you'll see that corruption continues to play out and that's just one instance. Frankly I think the state should be suing the law firm (located in Maryland), the attorney AND the City (KCMO) but that's not going to happen. https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article271554162.html

 

[Dan Murphy]

FBI's Top 10 Most Dangerous Cities in the Midwest

• St. Louis, Mo., pop. 314,507.
• Kansas City, Mo., pop. 478,364.
• Rockford, Ill., pop. 147,363.
• Milwaukee, Wisc., pop. 600,193.
• Minneapolis, Minn., pop. 416,751.
• Lansing, Mich., pop. 115,199.
• Chicago, Ill., pop. 2,725,153.
• South Bend, Ind., pop. 101,621.

Why so high, Midwest?

If the analysis is of the Midwest, then only cities in the Midwest will be listed. Right?

 

[Mysterian]

If the analysis is of the Midwest, then only cities in the Midwest will be listed. Right?

True, I should have mentioned something about Midwest vs Florida. You thought I was comparing Midwest to Midwest.

 

[Dan Murphy]

You thought I was comparing Midwest to Midwest.

Yes

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

How are these midwestern states more violent than Florida?
Florida crime reports are the stuff of legends!
Rhode Island's technically pretty bad at 3.4 -<8.44, since there's only 15 people in the entire state.

Florida probably gets some help from its demographics. Seniors aren’t committing nearly as many crimes as young people.

 

[Mysterian]

Yes

How are these midwestern states more violent than Florida?
Florida crime reports are the stuff of legends!

 

[Mysterian]

Florida probably gets some help from its demographics. Seniors aren’t committing nearly as many crimes as young people.

That could be it. That's makes me wonder if some numbers are actually tourists?