Amazed and Disappointed

[GF Girl]

I was thinking the same thing. We pay more and more every year, and they keep cutting back on hours and the extras that came along with passes. Not only did the MK close by 10 most nights, but they didn't even bother to offer late hours for the Studios. I know most think there isn't enough to see to keep it open, but there are MANY of us that love the park and it's atmosphere, even with all the closures they've had. Disney is forcing everyone to AK, and you can't even get a FP for the new attractions. Typical wait time for FOP was 3 hours. The ride was okay, but nothing is worth that wait. We didn't appreciate the early closures at all. Very disappointing.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Maybe the MB's data is coming to fruition? Maybe they found that they did not make enough money with later hours but did not take in overall customer satisfaction?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Could well be -- I'm not into the podcasts.

You know I didn't even know the Podcasts existed much less the DIS Daily Fix until last Feb despite having been a DIS board member since October 2015. I really enjoy the podcasts but they aren't for everyone really. Recently my husband has gotten into it..I was totally shocked too. Usually he rolls his eyes if he hears the Podcast going on and then he got to the point where he was like "well if you're going to watch it you might as well put it up on the TV". He also likes watching The Tim Tracker (actually to an extent more than the Podcasts)

I'm not accustomed to the hours being all that long in Oct, and we've all known forever that these parties take place then. Then there is the hotter weather in Aug vs. Oct (generally!!) that you mentioned in your earlier post as well. Basing now on TP and my personal experiences, despite the increases in Oct crowds and decreases in summer crowds in recent years as compared to many years ago, Oct still does not equal Aug. The hours need to acknowledge that. Or, apparently they don't.

The heat for sure is a factor no doubt about it (Typically yearly family vacations run right around 4th of July and rarely to a cooler place than what it is at home). Though I will say Hurricane Season is no joke either (this is me knocking on wood).

But I also think that just because you've known about the parties and you're not accustomed to longer hours in October doesn't make the interesting thought between Peak pricing in October and Peak pricing in the summer. You're a frequent visitor and while I don't think that should affect everything I think it does matter for guests that are infrequent too. I go about every 6 years and last time in 2011 I had absolutely no idea when I would be back. I just hit the urge in summer 2015 and started planning for 2017. I've got no idea when I'll be back after this trip in September (I'd like to make the 50th but it really depends on what we want to do and probably more importantly is if we have a child by then and what their age will be).

That being said that guest that is coming in October will be impacted by the parties (which have been adding more and more dates to it), will be paying peak pricing at least for the weekends, and may not have a clue as to the historical data behind October hours and may be exactly how other people are on this thread--If I'm paying for Peak pricing I demand longer hours to which my point is it's probably not a simple correlation Disney is choosing to have at this point;other factors play a role.

If people are allowed to be upset about summer hours I think someone is equally allowed to talk about October hours (though no this isn't the "October Amazed and Disappointed" thread I'm just using this as examples) and peak pricing plus hard ticket events, etc that impact how they may feel in regards to money spent and value felt. And really isn't that what this discussion has largely been about-price paid along with park hrs=X amount of value felt mixed in with obviously valid concerns of park closing exodus issues.

I like the phrasing of this period being perhaps a transition period as Disney has shifted strategies for it's $RATE x ATTENDANCE equation -- and maybe we are some unlucky victims blindsided by the first time they have not increase Aug hours more. And I think that WILL get thrown out of whack with Star Wars and everything coming online for the 50th -- though at least these added attractions increase capacity some, in a much needed way. Who knows what the new normal will be post 2019 / 2021??

Yeah lord who the heck knows what's going to happen once Star Wars opens. I honestly think this several year period is just ugh hard I think on a lot of people. Pricing higher, hrs what they are, longer festivals, attractions closing, etc

 

[ArwenMarie]

We just got back from WDW. The MK 10pm closing times were a bummer not only because of the crowds and the heat, but because of the rain. Several days the storms lasted for hours, closing many attractions at MK. So, that limited what you could get done even more. We usually go at Xmas, and the storms and rain do not hold you up as much.

This is such an important point. No matter what the crowds are...during the "rainy" season (which should really be called the "thunder and lightning season"), you can lose a lot of hours of park time over a week's vacation.

 

[rteetz]

This is such an important point. No matter what the crowds are...during the "rainy" season (which should really be called the "thunder and lightning season"), you can lose a lot of hours of park time over a week's vacation.

Disney can't control weather. Even if the parks were open later who's to say that the rain wouldn't continue into the longer hours or something like that. I don't think it is fair to bring weather which is uncontrollable into this.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This is such an important point. No matter what the crowds are...during the "rainy" season (which should really be called the "thunder and lightning season"), you can lose a lot of hours of park time over a week's vacation.

I totally agree on that but no matter how magical Disney is they cannot control storms/rain/lightning. Justifying park hours based on said weather..would not be advisable. Places and events all around have policies put in place for inclement weather.

Think about the water parks in Orlando..I don't think they would extend hours into after dark with the explanation of "well it's the rainy season so each afternoon chance of rain/storms/lightning occurs so we're going to give you a few more hours to make up for that".

 

[ArwenMarie]

Disney can't control weather. Even if the parks were open later who's to say that the rain wouldn't continue into the longer hours or something like that. I don't think it is fair to bring weather which is uncontrollable into this.

While the daily weather is variable, the general weather in Orlando is a known factor. And let's be real, it's hot and stormy, on a daily basis, for about 5 months of the year. So yes, it's reasonable to say, hey maybe we should keep the parks open a little later during this season of terrible weather, especially during the high crowd season.

 

[rteetz]

While the daily weather is variable, the general weather in Orlando is a known factor. And let's be real, it's hot and stormy, on a daily basis, for about 5 months of the year. So yes, it's reasonable to say, hey maybe we should keep the parks open a little later during this season of terrible weather, especially during the high crowd season.

I disagree. Disney would not justify longer park hours based on rainy seasons. Even when its expected to be more rainy than other times weather again is uncontrollable and can change quickly. I just don't find it fair in this argument to bring weather into it.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

This is such an important point. No matter what the crowds are...during the "rainy" season (which should really be called the "thunder and lightning season"), you can lose a lot of hours of park time over a week's vacation.

I agree. They can't control the weather but they know as well as everyone else that there is more rain and thunderstorms in the summer not to mention it is unbearably hot at times. We go all year long and a nice, dry, clear 60 degree day in Dec beats a 95 degree, 100% humidity day hands down.

 

[rteetz]

I agree. They can't control the weather but they know as well as everyone else that there is more rain and thunderstorms in the summer not to mention it is unbearably hot at times. We go all year long and a nice, dry, clear 60 degree day in Dec beats a 95 degree, 100% humidity day hands down.

It can be unbearably hot for much more than the summer down there.

 

[bryanb]

Yeah - I probably should write a letter. The thing is though that we are still enjoying our vacation and I"m not sure I want to lose this money saving option for future visits, LOL. AP rates for standard view rooms at AKL are $227/night (we asked - and were assigned - a partial savannah view), so hanging at the resort and pool is relaxing, inexpensive, and fun. Oh and there is 20% AP discount at The Mara (AKL QS). Last night we did go over to AK for a late night dinner at Satuli Canteen (inexpensive AND delicious), which was preceded by riding EE 4X in a row with a combination of FP, single rider, and virtually walk-on as standby. I've also introduced my children to the concept of having "cocktails" in the lounges of the deluxes. They are getting a kick out of comparing Shirley Temples and (non-alcoholic) Pina Coladas at various locations - this is what we do if we start feeling cabin fever at our home resort or want to do something else before heading back from time in the parks (Tambu Lounge will make virgin drinks in those hollowed-out pineapples, which my kids really loved). And Blaze Pizza is another big hit with us - again, inexpensive AND delicious. I can't believe we are actually saving money this year by staying at a deluxe instead of a value. It really highlights for me how much we had been spending on TS meals, $5.00 Mickey bars, and all those other items in the parks. It's surreal.

Table service meals are SO expensive at Disney, and they add such a huge amount to the overall budget. I guess it makes the Disney Dining Plan and Tables in Wonderland look like a good value. But a lot of people are willing to pay full price out-of-pocket for these meals and many restaurants are still booked to capacity.

I really liked the Satuli Canteen as well. Very filling, healthy, quality ingredients, and good value. It's a far cry from the days when theme parks had a reputation for bad hot dogs and chicken fingers. There is still theme-park-price inflation, but I'd agree that QSR is a good choice.

Most of AK was empty for me too in the last few hours at night. I think guests might still be used to thinking of AK as a daytime park, as it has mostly closed by 5pm or 6pm in the past. I also was able to almost walk on to EE at night. Much of AK is pretty empty, as people are gravitating toward the new area. It was awesome.

I was thinking the same thing. We pay more and more every year, and they keep cutting back on hours and the extras that came along with passes. Not only did the MK close by 10 most nights, but they didn't even bother to offer late hours for the Studios. I know most think there isn't enough to see to keep it open, but there are MANY of us that love the park and it's atmosphere, even with all the closures they've had. Disney is forcing everyone to AK, and you can't even get a FP for the new attractions. Typical wait time for FOP was 3 hours. The ride was okay, but nothing is worth that wait. We didn't appreciate the early closures at all. Very disappointing.

During my visit, the Studios were the most empty park of them all. Even the buses leaving from my resort were mostly empty compared to fairly packed buses for AK, EP and MK. Sadly, I think it has a reputation as a transition park right now even though it also has many of my favorite attractions. Regarding FOP, I would definitely not wait for 3 hours, but most days you can get a much shorter wait early or late in the day. I thought FOP was awesome.

Well, here you go guys!! I fixed it all with my letter to Disney!!!

Great! Actually, it's good to write letters to Disney. Of course, they do receive hundreds of pieces of feedback every day, so sometimes the public-facing responses do come from a template (since those CMs are lower level and can't comment officially). But I can confirm that they're truthful when they say that feedback is shared with the leadership teams and taken very seriously. Change does happen all the time because of what guests say. Especially well written letters are passed around, and even read at team meetings where important decisions are made.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

If people are allowed to be upset about summer hours I think someone is equally allowed to talk about October hours (though no this isn't the "October Amazed and Disappointed" thread I'm just using this as examples) and peak pricing plus hard ticket events, etc that impact how they may feel in regards to money spent and value felt. And really isn't that what this discussion has largely been about-price paid along with park hrs=X amount of value felt mixed in with obviously valid concerns of park closing exodus issues.

Absolutely! Never disagreed with Oct folks having legitimate issues as well!

The only distinction is that for Oct, IF someone has looked at any historical info at all or has a TA who has, it's not a surprise. Those traveling in Jun-Aug this year and have paid attention to historical info have been totally blindsided by a significant decrease in hours. That's the only difference, but I think it's a real and significant one -- both certainly welcome to be unhappy!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

It can be unbearably hot for much more than the summer down there.

It CAN be. But Jun-Aug we all KNOW it will be. People do plan around weather for a reason -- though highs/lows obviously can be "unseasonable".

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Great! Actually, it's good to write letters to Disney. Of course, they do receive hundreds of pieces of feedback every day, so sometimes the public-facing responses do come from a template (since those CMs are lower level and can't comment officially). But I can confirm that they're truthful when they say that feedback is shared with the leadership teams and taken very seriously. Change does happen all the time because of what guests say. Especially well written letters are passed around, and even read at team meetings where important decisions are made.

Yeah -- template responses are understandable. I know that Disney doesn't really empower employees at certain levels to "wing it" much...

Very good to know that things are routinely passed up the chain, though -- thanks, @bryanb!

 

[robl45]

Disney can't control weather. Even if the parks were open later who's to say that the rain wouldn't continue into the longer hours or something like that. I don't think it is fair to bring weather which is uncontrollable into this.

Not quite true, it rains typically in the afternoon. At night its almost always good, of course there is the occasional day, but almost every day in the summer it rains in the afternoon.

 

[rteetz]

Not quite true, it rains typically in the afternoon. At night its almost always good, of course there is the occasional day, but almost every day in the summer it rains in the afternoon.

Typically or usually doesn't mean 100% all the time. When I was there in January storms rolled through at 2AM and prompted the cancelling of the WDW half marathon. Two years ago in November during the wine and dine half storms rolled through and made Disney shorten the course for that. My point is Disney isn't going to base hours off weather since weather can change.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Absolutely! Never disagreed with Oct folks having legitimate issues as well!

The only distinction is that for Oct, IF someone has looked at any historical info at all or has a TA who has, it's not a surprise. Those traveling in Jun-Aug this year and have paid attention to historical info have been totally blindsided by a significant decrease in hours. That's the only difference, but I think it's a real and significant one -- both certainly welcome to be unhappy!

But does the average guest even look into historical hours? Like I'm interested in things as far as over time, I certaintly know you are, but does the average WDW guest (so we're talking the over 20million guests to MK last year), especially the ones who don't come frequently take the time or heck even think about looking into hours on a historical basis? They see the current hours and go from there is usually how people go.

Even at my own amusement and water parks near me I'm not looking into what the hours were last year what the hours were the year before and so on. All I know is from year to year the price generally goes up.

The only WDW park I think people are actually aware of in a more broad way that the hours are different than they used to be is AK..that's largely due to advertisements being used to showcase a park that now has nighttime stuff whereas before it didn't.

I think we just disagree on maybe the approach to the subject-which is totally ok. I don't really have a good comment regarding "The only distinction is that for Oct, IF someone has looked at any historical info at all or has a TA who has, it's not a surprise." because I think it's just the different approach aspect coming into play.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

But does the average guest even look into historical hours? Like I'm interested in things as far as over time, I certaintly know you are, but does the average WDW guest (so we're talking the over 20million guests to MK last year), especially the ones who don't come frequently take the time or heck even think about looking into hours on a historical basis? They see the current hours and go from there is usually how people go.

Even at my own amusement and water parks near me I'm not looking into what the hours were last year what the hours were the year before and so on. All I know is from year to year the price generally goes up.

The only WDW park I think people are actually aware of in a more broad way that the hours are different than they used to be is AK..that's largely due to advertisements being used to showcase a park that now has nighttime stuff whereas before it didn't.

I think we just disagree on maybe the approach to the subject-which is totally ok. I don't really have a good comment regarding "The only distinction is that for Oct, IF someone has looked at any historical info at all or has a TA who has, it's not a surprise." because I think it's just the different approach aspect coming into play.

Let me just add this one thought: whether you know historical data or not, your experience leaving MK this summer is apparently a train wreck. That experience could have been better with extended hours. Same with the Pandora EMH fiasco -- whether you tracked past data or not.

I'd suspect some who have NO IDEA about historical data and visit for the first time this summer may be less likely to return because of how they've handled MK and AK late hours.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Let me just add this one thought: whether you know historical data or not, your experience leaving MK this summer is apparently a train wreck. That experience could have been better with extended hours. Same with the Pandora EMH fiasco -- whether you tracked past data or not.

I'd suspect some who have NO IDEA about historical data and visit for the first time this summer may be less likely to return because of how they've handled MK and AK late hours.

No doubt leaving MK has been bad. I think that's been the narrative for a while now but it's been worse because of not having distractions such as parades or later hours). But I will say that just about everywhere I have been with large crowds leaving is just a nightmare. That's my experience but it can't mimic everyones. Doesn't make it any better for sure. What hurts Disney more in that respects is when their transportation system doesn't work as well as it can. Issues with monorails, busses and boats will make the situation much worse than it has to be-extended hrs or not if it was working like a well-oiled machine you would be able to move people quicker with less back up issues.

The last time we attempted to watch fireworks for 4th of july at the best fireworks display in our area, which is in a sprawling office park, it took 1 1/2 hrs to get out because..get this...no one was letting people make a left turn out of the various parking lots and we had made the very poor decision to park in a lot that required left turn to get out to the main road. But that place is always a mess leaving with 20,000 or more people all trying to leave at the same time right after the fireworks end. We just go watch them now from outside of the venue but there still is traffic issues we run into.

As far as the summer issue and not visiting..I want to honestly say that sort of thing can happen at any moment throughout the year. One event, one detail, one this and one that can make someone swear off something. People swore off going because of the crowds in general being soooooo bad in their eyes. People have sworn off going because the CMs were rude to them and they felt there was no magic. Every decision Disney does and well businesses in general has the potential to swear off their clientele. I just honestly don't see this summer hrs issue any less important than something that happens to someone at any other point in the year that could make them swear off Disney. But also to Pete's point....driving off at least some people...may indeed be some of Disney's point at least partially and at least to a point Disney is going to be ok with that (as businesses will as they strive for that balance).

As far as Pandora EMH...it's a brand new experience that is different than before. They could have done better absolutely but I wouldn't have expected perfection for something like this. What would be interesting is did they learn anything from that when Star Wars opens.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

As far as Pandora EMH...it's a brand new experience that is different than before. They could have done better absolutely but I wouldn't have expected perfection for something like this. What would be interesting is did they learn anything from that when Star Wars opens.

If they didn't, opening of SW could be a true FIASCO!!