Amazed and Disappointed

[Westcoastwild]

Not to everyone who is paying high rates to attend this summer. And I think it's a relevant point that keeping 2 AK rides open does not begin to address the capacity that would be spread throughout MK.

I can imagine many cranky people having been funneled/crammed into only 2 rides for 2hrs for EMH -- not sure that creates the awesome continued word of mouth they must be hoping for.

I know that Disney does most things based on a ton of market research and planning. I'd suspect -- HOPE -- that this has more to do with projected crowds than an all-Pandora-all-the-time summer. JMO.

Maybe it's less about capacity and more about justifying building pandora. Even last summer they were really trying to attract a crowd to AK during the evenings. I don't really know if anyone was clamoring for that change; I think they just want to increase park attendance in all parks other than MK which has no problems in that department. I do think it's odd that they would only run Pandora rides if that was the case, though.

Today at MK was a 6/10 but I felt like it was more near an 8 with the amount of crowds that I saw.

Thanks for reporting back!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Maybe it's less about capacity and more about justifying building pandora. Even last summer they were really trying to attract a crowd to AK during the evenings. I don't really know if anyone was clamoring for that change; I think they just want to increase park attendance in all parks other than MK which has no problems in that department. I do think it's odd that they would only run Pandora rides if that was the case, though.

I get what you're saying. I guess I think they'll attract more people at night to other parks when/if there are offerings there that more people want to see late at night of after regular park hours! Maybe they'll get that with Pandora, but I don't personally think the best way to try to get people jazzed about that is to eliminate park hours elsewhere. Guess we'll see...!

Our family thrives on early and late hours in the summer -- taking a break midday when it is TOO HOT and TOO CROWDED. We need enough of those to make LONG summer trips worth it. Not saying that eliminating some late MK hours will be a final straw at this point, but we'll certainly consider it when timing our next vacation... and deciding how long to go for.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I get what you're saying. I guess I think they'll attract more people at night to other parks when/if there are offerings there that more people want to see late at night of after regular park hours! Maybe they'll get that with Pandora, but I don't personally think the best way to try to get people jazzed about that is to eliminate park hours elsewhere. Guess we'll see...!

Our family thrives on early and late hours in the summer -- taking a break midday when it is TOO HOT and TOO CROWDED. Wee need enough of those to make LONG summer trips worth it. Not saying that eliminating some late MK hours will be a final straw at this point, but we'll certainly consider it when timing our next vacation... and deciding how long to go for.

I understand your point. I would certainly be more inclined to go again in the summer if the closing time was midnight. I would not say no to a summer trip at this point but I definitely think the afternoon heat and storms takes away some valuable touring time.

I also don't think it's the way to increase park attendance. I don't think I'd park hop just for Pandora, but maybe others would.

 

[Lesley Wake]

I'm honestly crossing my fingers they extend hours at MK in September. Right now it's only until 9, but HEA is also scheduled at 9. If the park closes right after that gives little hope they would have the Once Upon a Time projection show after the fireworks, if at all! It would suck to miss it!

 

[Aurora0427]

I don't think it's that big of deal if you rope drop. It was open until midnight one day I was there, and I was pretty exhausted the next day. The only thing I really liked was the fact the heat is much more tolerable after dark. I would be fine if they switched open hours to graveyard. 1-3 pm is brutal time to be in the parks.

I think the 10pm closing time is so that they can run extra magic hours only until midnight, which would make sense to me. Closing the park at 2 am and reopening it at 9 can't be much fun for staff.

Sorry, but not everyone rope drops, and as far as being open until 2am not being fun for the staff... it's called WORK for a reason. It's not like the same staff works open to close.

Disney is cheap. They've been cutting hours back for at least 6 years. EMH used to run until 3am. A 10pm park close in July is kind of inexcusable, given how much they're charging for tickets.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

EMH used to run until 3am.

Counterpoint to this as someone who used to attend the EMH until 3am: there was NEXT TO NO ONE in the park 2-3am. Pretty sure that is the market speaking that there isn't demand -- even though WE liked it.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Sorry, but not everyone rope drops, and as far as being open until 2am not being fun for the staff... it's called WORK for a reason. It's not like the same staff works open to close.

Disney is cheap. They've been cutting hours back for at least 6 years. EMH used to run until 3am. A 10pm park close in July is kind of inexcusable, given how much they're charging for tickets.

I meant more in terms of organizing staff schedules and making sure the park was restocked and pristine the next day. I'm assuming they must do some maintenance or cleaning at night, and late closings or early opening makes that more difficult in terms of logistics. And even then you're assuming a lot by saying it isn't the same people who open and close. When you work a variable hours job, there's no guarantee.

But as far as the tickets go...I don't quite follow. If I enter at 8 pm and then complain I only got 2 hours in the park- that's not the business's fault. I could have entered at 9 am and had 11 more hours for the same price.

 

[Aurora0427]

Counterpoint to this as someone who used to attend the EMH until 3am: there was NEXT TO NO ONE in the park 2-3am. Pretty sure that is the market speaking that there isn't demand -- even though WE liked it.

Very true.... we were there but that last hour was pretty dead. But when we were there in August 2007, the park was packed until 2am- we were shocked. So it was nice having that last hour without waits.

I'm not saying the parks should still be open until 3am, but a 10pm closing in July is pretty lame. Especially given rising ticket prices.

 

[Aurora0427]

I meant more in terms of organizing staff schedules and making sure the park was restocked and pristine the next day. I'm assuming they must do some maintenance or cleaning at night, and late closings or early opening makes that more difficult in terms of logistics. And even then you're assuming a lot by saying it isn't the same people who open and close. When you work a variable hours job, there's no guarantee.

But as far as the tickets go...I don't quite follow. If I enter at 8 pm and then complain I only got 2 hours in the park- that's not the business's fault. I could have entered at 9 am and had 11 more hours for the same price.

You're missing my point about the ticket prices. They keep raising them, while the hours get shorter. Especially in the summer- people like to rope drop, take a break in the afternoon, then close down the parks after dinner. A 10pm closing cuts into those late night hours. It's not about only coming from 8-10. Huh?

A 6pm closing in December doesn't really bother me- we rope drop and since it's not miserably hot, we stay all day. I'm so over MK by 6pm.

And the same people do not open and close the parks. At least, they didn't used to when I had friends who were CMs at MK.

 

[Westcoastwild]

You're missing my point about the ticket prices. They keep raising them, while the hours get shorter. Especially in the summer- people like to rope drop, take a break in the afternoon, then close down the parks after dinner. A 10pm closing cuts into those late night hours. It's not about only coming from 8-10. Huh?

A 6pm closing in December doesn't really bother me- we rope drop and since it's not miserably hot, we stay all day. I'm so over MK by 6pm.

And the same people do not open and close the parks. At least, they didn't used to when I had friends who were CMs at MK.

No, I understand your point. But a touring style is a preference. You don't have to do it that way. Does your ticket in December cost any less than your August ticket? Attending on a party night (which I assume the 6 closure is) doesn't work for me unless I rope drop, so I wouldn't go then. Hours don't determine ticket prices.

Since you had CM friends at MK- did they say whether there was overnight maintenance? Because when I was working retail, extended holiday hours were the worst. There was very little time to turn around the store for next day sales and everyone- managers to maintenance- was stretched thin.

 

[DisneyCowgirl]

I meant more in terms of organizing staff schedules and making sure the park was restocked and pristine the next day. I'm assuming they must do some maintenance or cleaning at night, and late closings or early opening makes that more difficult in terms of logistics. And even then you're assuming a lot by saying it isn't the same people who open and close. When you work a variable hours job, there's no guarantee.

But as far as the tickets go...I don't quite follow. If I enter at 8 pm and then complain I only got 2 hours in the park- that's not the business's fault. I could have entered at 9 am and had 11 more hours for the same price.

I don't understand why these threads always turn to "Disney is a business and can do what they want." Of course they can. But I don't have to like it, and this is forum where I get to complain about it.

There is NO WAY I am getting my family up in time to do rope drop. We get up early in real life. We sleep in and take it easy on vacation. If we go in the summer, what we like to do is relax at the resort during the day, and head to the park in the evening. In the future, I'm not likely to go to WDW in the summer if closing time is so early. And there are years where summer is the only time we can do a family vacation to WDW.

There was a time before EMH existed when the park was open at least until midnight on a regular basis. Somehow Disney was able to make that work. I absolutely believe it's about saving money. They're a business and they answer to their board and their shareholders. I work for a publicly-traded company so I get that. But as a customer, I don't like what they are doing.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I don't understand why these threads always turn to "Disney is a business and can do what they want." Of course they can. But I don't have to like it, and this is forum where I get to complain about it.

There is NO WAY I am getting my family up in time to do rope drop. We get up early in real life. We sleep in and take it easy on vacation. If we go in the summer, what we like to do is relax at the resort during the day, and head to the park in the evening. In the future, I'm not likely to go to WDW in the summer if closing time is so early. And there are years where summer is the only time we can do a family vacation to WDW.

There was a time before EMH existed when the park was open at least until midnight on a regular basis. Somehow Disney was able to make that work. I absolutely believe it's about saving money. They're a business and they answer to their board and their shareholders. I work for a publicly-traded company so I get that. But as a customer, I don't like what they are doing.

I don't like it much either, but what's the point of complaining? If summer is the only time I could do WDW (and it usually is) I'd go and rope drop. Or sleep in, and just do less time in the parks. If you go to any other tourist destination, you make the same decision; museums and stores and other attractions close at 6 or 7, so if you sleep in, or go for a swim, you don't get to see as much.

Maybe Disney shortended the hours because there weren't enough people spending money in the parks during the late nights. I think that's pretty likely. If extended hours were a money maker, they would have kept them. It would be interesting to know how much profit from shopping and dining drops off every hour in the evening. Or even what percentage of on property guests take advantage of EMH. It really wasn't crowded the night I went. Lines were pretty short even at 10:30.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

But a touring style is a preference. You don't have to do it that way. Does your ticket in December cost any less than your August ticket?

We have APs so ticket price is not the issue. Staying onsite -- which Disney certainly wants people to do -- is more expensive in the summer. Costs us MANY MORE DVC points to stay in the summer. Reducing our park hours in the summer makes it less attractive to us to vacation then -- thus less likely they'll get that premium (summer vs. some other time of year) out of us.

I think this is like many issues discussed here. It's a threshold issue... at what point do they reduce hours "enough" that "enough" people stop visiting in the summer, and net of operating costs they make less profit. When/if they get to that place, I'd expect they would reverse out of it somewhat. If they DON'T get to that place, then too bad for us!

Some clearly hate hearing it, but this IS a business. Some of the things they do I like -- some I don't like.

But again... as I've said... if this is driven by forecasts of lower attendance, then fine by me -- I'll be happy for the "lower" crowds! And if they find those forecasts are wrong, I'd expect them to add hours at the last minute -- they've done it before!

 

[Westcoastwild]

We have APs so ticket price is not the issue. Staying onsite -- which Disney certainly wants people to do -- is more expensive in the summer. Costs us MANY MORE DVC points to stay in the summer. Reducing our park hours in the summer makes it less attractive to us to vacation then -- thus less likely they'll get that premium (summer vs. some other time of year) out of us.

I think this is like many issues discussed here. It's a threshold issue... at what point do they reduce hours "enough" that "enough" people stop visiting in the summer, and net of operating costs they make less profit. When/if they get to that place, I'd expect they would reverse out of it somewhat. If they DON'T get to that place, then too bad for us!

Some clearly hate hearing it, but this IS a business. Some of the things they do I like -- some I don't like.

But again... as I've said... if this is driven by forecasts of lower attendance, then fine by me -- I'll be happy for the "lower" crowds! And if they find those forecasts are wrong, I'd expect them to add hours at the last minute -- they've done it before!

Really? Summer is significantly more expensive than Christmas, point wise? I didn't know that. I thought Summer would be more reasonable given the discounts and specials. There are AP discounts, right? When is the best season for those? High or low?

I'm looking at second or third week of December and I'd pay about the same I did last July. It's cheaper during the week, but really expensive on weekends and the closer you get to Christmas. I want to see the holiday stuff because I haven't before, but I'm not sure it's worth the plane ticket.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Really? Summer is significantly more expensive than Christmas, point wise? I didn't know that. I thought Summer would be more reasonable given the discounts and specials. There are AP discounts, right? When is the best season for those? High or low?

I'm looking at second or third week of December and I'd pay about the same I did last July. It's cheaper during the week, but really expensive on weekends and the closer you get to Christmas. I want to see the holiday stuff because I haven't before, but I'm not sure it's worth the plane ticket.

No -- not more expensive than Christmas -- but we're not crazy enough to go then!

Only Christmas and Spring break are more expensive than peak summer though, for DVC.

A week at BLT, 2BR, MK view in Jan or Sep: 536 points
Same room in mid-Jun to mid-Aug: 688 points

So a 28% increase in points. If you figure we could get $12/point to rent them (just about, probably, as a "market price"), that's an equivalent of $1,800 or so more to us for the summer for 1 week.

 

[Westcoastwild]

No -- not more expensive than Christmas -- but we're not crazy enough to go then!

Only Christmas and Spring break are more expensive than peak summer though, for DVC.

A week at BLT, 2BR, MK view in Jan or Sep: 536 points
Same room in mid-Jun to mid-Aug: 688 points

So a 28% increase in points. If you figure we could get $12/point to rent them (just about, probably, as a "market price"), that's an equivalent of $1,800 or so more to us for the summer for 1 week.

I see. That is quite a jump. It makes sense though- I usually wish I could travel in January or September because everything is so much cheaper. I got time off last January for the first time and think I spent at least 1/3 less on hotels and flights. It was awesome. No such luck this year.

 

[Dolby1000]

Have to be honest, disappointed in no late night hours for the MK. I only had one opportunity to be at the park on a close at Midnight many years ago. We watched the fireworks at the ungodly hour of 10PM (the night time parade was a 9) and then watched the 2nd, and much less crowded, running of the night time parade at 11 and then we still had an hour to get in a few rides. Now the fireworks, at this time of year, are barely after dark at 9PM and there is NO NIGHT TIME parade and prices are significantly higher. We finally have the opportunity to be annual pass holders, which would bring us to the park after work (around 6) and with the parks not staying open even to 11, is a bit of a bummer for us. As for the lack of a night time parade, don't get me started. . . . . .

 

[Juliet0778]

Wow...they really used to stay open that late? The poor staff! I'm actually with Disney and Disney's neighbors on this one. A theme park doesn't need to be open as late as a bar....

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Wow...they really used to stay open that late? The poor staff! I'm actually with Disney and Disney's neighbors on this one. A theme park doesn't need to be open as late as a bar....

People work in shifts. I'm sure some would love the extra hours in any economy.

 

[Juliet0778]

People work in shifts. I'm sure some would love the extra hours in any economy.

Yeah, my husband has done shift work for fifteen years. It's awful, it's hard on our family, and nobody else gets it. The money really doesn't make up for it. That's why I tend to side with the workers!