Amazed and Disappointed

[mom2rtk]

They explained it was paid for with no way to get the money back.

I had in my original comment to the exact poster who I was asking the question the following: "What's more important to you-potentially losing the money already spent on the trip or going on a trip that you look forward to and anticipate having a good time on?" So they ended up answering that question which was losing the $ they already spent on the trip.

I'd still go too. Everyone has different amounts of disposable income. Losing money on a trip might not be a big deal for some, but it would be to me.

I think it's very dismissive to say "just lose the money and don't go". It's not that far off of "Just be quiet". Even if a trip isn't the best, there can be redeeming moments along the way that are enjoyable.

Whatever happened to the old saying "A bad day at Disney is better than a good day at work"?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'd still go too. Everyone has different amounts of disposable income. Losing money on a trip might not be a big deal for some, but it would be to me.

I think it's very dismissive to say "just lose the money and don't go". It's not that far off of "Just be quiet". Even if a trip isn't the best, there can be redeeming moments along the way that are enjoyable.

Whatever happened to the old saying "A bad day at Disney is better than a good day at work"?

Nah I think you're misunderstanding what I was going for. It was all about if it really is going to be that sucky and you're really not going to have fun at all because of how upset you are with the decisions Disney is currently making then maybe it's not the best idea to go. There is no side to my comment-it was a practical one.

And absolutely not related at all to "just be quiet" I don't say that type of things to people in fact I find that rude to be honest. And I don't say "don't go" lightly either. Money is nothing to be messed around with but you do have to make tough decisions sometimes. And if it really was going to impact their trip in such a way that might be that tough decision. Now I don't know anything about that poster but it is also possible that another person (maybe a spouse, a parent, etc IDK) could take their family and they could stay home if it was going to impact their trip to the point where they will have no fun at all.

I suspect it was more a heat of the moment feeling the other poster might have had and I'm sure something will be able to salvage their trip (as I basically said to them when they responded to me) but even so I was responding to that.

 

[bryanb]

This was true of the REALLY, REALLY late hours.

But cutting back to 10pm close in Jul-Aug is ridiculous. As I posted above, we're looking at 27 fewer MK hours just over the same 11-day period in Aug. And it looks like Jul crowds so far are UP 12% from 2016 -- so crowds don't appear to be the justification.

If you look back at my posts over the years, I am NOT AT ALL the first to complain about Disney. In fact, I tend to try to EXPLAIN a lot of Disney's moves, whether I personally like them or not. This is inexplicable to me. Period. Particularly when combined with the disaster of keeping only Pandora open for EMH when last year all of AK was open until 11!! Ludicrous.

There isn't much that would have me questioning whether I want to book our annual trip next year -- a trip we've been taking for 12+ years now. But this type of thing has me right on the brink. We bought at BLT for a reason -- part of that reason was a ton of easy access to MK. They are REALLY stepping on that with these hours this summer.

I see how this would be frustrating. I was there in June and the crowds were observably weaker than past Junes (at least anecdotally during my visit). I was not aware that July crowds have been up from last July, and saw that from the spreadsheet that you posted. I'm not sure one can extrapolate an absolute 12% increase based on the scale, but I appreciate what's clear from your point: the sizeof reported crowds is higher. (I probably should know this but "TP" isn't ringing a bell... can you tell me who that is? So curious now.)

In the past, Disney has been usually good at extending park hours when attendance exceeded certain thresholds. They weren't doing it to be nice, but rather to take advantage of higher hourly guest spending in the parks. That would be my expectation as a manager of the business who answers to shareholders. Based on some posts here, it sounds like there have been heavy crowds still in MK at closing time, which suggests that the hours are indeed insufficient.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I see how this would be frustrating. I was there in June and the crowds were observably weaker than past Junes (at least anecdotally during my visit). I was not aware that July crowds have been up from last July, and saw that from the spreadsheet that you posted. I'm not sure one can extrapolate an absolute 12% increase based on the scale, but I appreciate what's clear from your point: the sizeof reported crowds is higher. (I probably should know this but "TP" isn't ringing a bell... can you tell me who that is? So curious now.)

In the past, Disney has been usually good at extending park hours when attendance exceeded certain thresholds. They weren't doing it to be nice, but rather to take advantage of higher hourly guest spending in the parks. That would be my expectation as a manager of the business who answers to shareholders. Based on some posts here, it sounds like there have been heavy crowds still in MK at closing time, which suggests that the hours are indeed insufficient.

TP is Touring Plans -- Unofficial Guide folks. It's certainly not an exact science (!!), but they do estimate "actual" crowds based on wait times at certain attractions. To my knowledge they haven't changed their methodology over the past year, so it's at least apples to apples from that perspective.

Agree -- I wouldn't say the 12% is exact at all... just that it doesn't appear to be lower, which is what makes cutting MK hours by 2.5hr/day (at least over the 11 days of our Aug trip) seems like an odd choice. And while AK hours are less than last Aug. Even DHS is down a tad. Bizarre to me -- and frustrating for sure!

 

[Anniefrances]

We've been here for six days now and I think the hours are insufficient (as are the EMH). Evenings are still crowded and wait times for attractions are pretty high, so we rope drop and use FP, then we leave. We are very disappointed with the early closing and it has definitely affected our vacation style. We are spending far less time in the parks and much more time hanging at the resort and pool. Since we have tons of snacks in our room (we drive so I load up the car), can easily refill our mugs, and don't mind resort QS, we are actually spending less money this year due to decreased time in the parks.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

This thread is just further evidence of why DLR will be my main Disney park going forward (until Disney decides to make negative changes over there as well).

 

[DisAWin]

We were in WDW July 10-18. We went to MK in some capacity every day. I have to agree with those that said it's much more crowded, which is very obvious when attempting to leave at night.

Our nighttime MK trips can give a glimpse at variety of leaving times- 8-8:30 pm, 9:15ish, 9:30, and 10:00. All were miserable in one way or another in my opinion. In a somewhat scatterbrained way, I'll lay it out for you:

* BTG sitting in the middle of Main Street: if you can imagine a group of teens stretching between the trolley rails for a decent 20-30 yards, you can imagine what sort of an obstacle was created by BTG who were either waiting for fireworks or not ready to move after fireworks.

Rain: we all know rain will clear a park out quickly. When you combine a large population density with a downpour, it's recipe for disaster.

Wall-to-wall people: specifically at the 9:30 and 10pm exits, it was as if we were a zombie-fied, slow moving pack, slowly lumbering toward the exits.

Some nights, all three of these characteristics combined, just as if three villains united to reek havoc on a peaceful city. Other nights it was just one. Either way, it took much longer than usual to exit in an orderly and timely fashion.

So, what should Disney do? The rain can't be helped, the tour groups are sort of out of Disney control... there can either be a better exit protocol, extended hours, additional opportunities other than DS for after 10pm fun.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Since we have tons of snacks in our room (we drive so I load up the car), can easily refill our mugs, and don't mind resort QS, we are actually spending less money this year due to decreased time in the parks.

Cynical me says that THIS might be he best thing to put in a letter to Disney... make one out to Iger.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

So, what should Disney do? The rain can't be helped, the tour groups are sort of out of Disney control... there can either be a better exit protocol, extended hours, additional opportunities other than DS for after 10pm fun.

 

[bryanb]

TP is Touring Plans -- Unofficial Guide folks. It's certainly not an exact science (!!), but they do estimate "actual" crowds based on wait times at certain attractions. To my knowledge they haven't changed their methodology over the past year, so it's at least apples to apples from that perspective.

Agree -- I wouldn't say the 12% is exact at all... just that it doesn't appear to be lower, which is what makes cutting MK hours by 2.5hr/day (at least over the 11 days of our Aug trip) seems like an odd choice. And while AK hours are less than last Aug. Even DHS is down a tad. Bizarre to me -- and frustrating for sure!

Ah, of course Touring Plans. I was drawing a blank on that! Thanks.

Cynical me says that THIS might be he best thing to put in a letter to Disney... make one out to Iger.

No doubt, and I wouldn't call you cynical for saying it. Disney's analysts get detailed reports every day on every location and every item available for sale. They have all of the data available. Ideally, the decision to have longer hours is based on an analysis of what provides the biggest profit. But in a big corporation, sometimes this information doesn't make its way up the chain. If Bob were ever to find out that the decision to close early was unprofitable, he would probably have a lot of questions.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

No doubt, and I wouldn't call you cynical for saying it. Disney's analysts get detailed reports every day on every location and every item available for sale. They have all of the data available. Ideally, the decision to have longer hours is based on an analysis of what provides the biggest profit. But in a big corporation, sometimes this information doesn't make its way up the chain. If Bob were ever to find out that the decision to close early was unprofitable, he would probably have a lot of questions.

Good to hear! And I have to say the obvious: I WOULD KILL TO HAVE ALL THAT DATA and get behind the scenes!!!

 

[anomamatt]

TP is Touring Plans -- Unofficial Guide folks. It's certainly not an exact science (!!), but they do estimate "actual" crowds based on wait times at certain attractions. To my knowledge they haven't changed their methodology over the past year, so it's at least apples to apples from that perspective.

Just as a FYI, touring plans doesn't attempt to quantify the number of guests... the park ratings are based solely on wait times. It's how the park "feels", not how crowded it actually is. When wait times go up, their "crowd" rating goes up. And wait times vary for factors other than crowd levels (such as CM staffing levels). There is another thread (forget the title) that is discussing CM staffing levels being lower until the end of the fiscal year (9/30). So just keep in mind that TP crowd numbers are just a reflection of ride waits and nothing else.

There are many indications that Jul/Aug has seen fewer guests than previous years. One is the number of discounts that are popping up (one example is the 30% off dining for AP/DVC). From todays Dis Daily Fix it sounds like they will discuss the lower park crowds during tomorrow's DisUnplugged.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Just as a FYI, touring plans doesn't attempt to quantify the number of guests... the park ratings are based solely on wait times. It's how the park "feels", not how crowded it actually is. When wait times go up, their "crowd" rating goes up. And wait times vary for factors other than crowd levels (such as CM staffing levels). There is another thread (forget the title) that is discussing CM staffing levels being lower until the end of the fiscal year (9/30). So just keep in mind that TP crowd numbers are just a reflection of ride waits and nothing else.

There are many indications that Jul/Aug has seen fewer guests than previous years. One is the number of discounts that are popping up (one example is the 30% off dining for AP/DVC). From todays Dis Daily Fix it sounds like they will discuss the lower park crowds during tomorrow's DisUnplugged.

Yes, I'm aware of TP methodologies (part of why I put "actuals" in quotes), and of that other thread...

• TP "crowd actuals" are still the best approximation that I am aware of for now. Not perfect -- not right on the mark -- but best approximation unless you're privy to actual data from Disney, wait until year end published data, or wait for quarter end (assuming it's discussed by Disney then).
• As someone who would know posted in that CM staffing thread, any possible reductions should not be read into to draw conclusions.
• Most accounts I've read on DIS seem to contradict the idea that crowds are down in July.
• I don't know what data DISunplugged is privy to that they can discuss tomorrow... ... any?

ETA: And as an aside, I am pretty sure that what I care most about IS how crowded the park FEELS... no?

And TP does call these their "CROWD CALENDARS"... not their "attraction wait times calendars" because they ARE proxying for crowd estimates... or at least how crowded it feels...

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Random question: Is there official by month vs by year crowd counts?

Like I know Themed Entertainment Association does year by year but what about official number month by month for the parks (not just quarterly).

 

[rteetz]

Random question: Is there official by month vs by year crowd counts?

Like I know Themed Entertainment Association does year by year but what about official number month by month for the parks (not just quarterly).

No I don't believe so.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Random question: Is there official by month vs by year crowd counts?

Like I know Themed Entertainment Association does year by year but what about official number month by month for the parks (not just quarterly).

If there is, I'd love to get my hands on it!! I've never seen this.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If there is, I'd love to get my hands on it!! I've never seen this.

You and me both! It wouldn't be exact of course given that we know some parts of months can be busier than other parts for a variety of reasons but I totally feel like that would be helpful.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

No I don't believe so.

Thanks for responding. I honestly didn't think so but wasn't for sure.

 

[bryanb]

I would totally geek out to know official attendance numbers. Disney doesn't publish them as they're considered proprietary and they don't want competitors using the data. Also, they want to be careful with Wall Street. When stock traders and analysts get too fixated on details like this instead of the bigger financial picture, it could make it very hard to run a company.

 

[TwoMisfits]

We were in WDW July 10-18. We went to MK in some capacity every day. I have to agree with those that said it's much more crowded, which is very obvious when attempting to leave at night.

Our nighttime MK trips can give a glimpse at variety of leaving times- 8-8:30 pm, 9:15ish, 9:30, and 10:00. All were miserable in one way or another in my opinion. In a somewhat scatterbrained way, I'll lay it out for you:

* BTG sitting in the middle of Main Street: if you can imagine a group of teens stretching between the trolley rails for a decent 20-30 yards, you can imagine what sort of an obstacle was created by BTG who were either waiting for fireworks or not ready to move after fireworks.

Rain: we all know rain will clear a park out quickly. When you combine a large population density with a downpour, it's recipe for disaster.

Wall-to-wall people: specifically at the 9:30 and 10pm exits, it was as if we were a zombie-fied, slow moving pack, slowly lumbering toward the exits.

Some nights, all three of these characteristics combined, just as if three villains united to reek havoc on a peaceful city. Other nights it was just one. Either way, it took much longer than usual to exit in an orderly and timely fashion.

So, what should Disney do? The rain can't be helped, the tour groups are sort of out of Disney control... there can either be a better exit protocol, extended hours, additional opportunities other than DS for after 10pm fun.

We had a big thread about this on rumors boards about how awful leaving MK is...my suggestion of filling in the lake and letting people walk right out to their parked cars there and leave was not well-received...but it is obvious that MK no longer has anywhere near the necessary capacity to give their crowds a pleasant and orderly arrival and departure, with departure normally being much more disastrous and unpleasant, especially if you need to ride the monorail or ferry boat...it is my least favorite park b/c of this exiting fiasco...