Aggressive anti-rental email response from MS

Aah. But wait, can somebody do that? Wouldn’t the broker want some type of commitment to the listing?
They don’t from my understanding. They just ask you let them know so they can pull them. I’d bet anything that some of these duplicates (same dates and room) that show in multiple brokers are simply the same rental.
 
I've always noted the DVC "Rules and Regulations" (current version 11-2021) are a relatively simple document which states it can be Amended, and the new R&Rs just need to be updated on the DVC website to be effective - obviously, there are some legal protections.

Oddly, just now I did notice reading in Section V. 3. b. (which is actually referencing Member Benefits and Privileges - so maybe nothing to do with bookings - seems to be in the blue card vs white card area of discussions) it seems to mention DVC members are to notify DVC if a Guest is Renting from the member? Possibly only applies if requesting a specific Benefit, but the terminology is there.... BOLD is mine for emphasis.

3. Making Reservations for Guest.

a. Club Members may use their Home Resort Vacation Points to reserve Vacation Homes that will be occupied by Guests.

b. When a Club Member uses Home Resort Vacation Points to reserve Vacation Homes on behalf of a Guest, and the Club Member does not charge any rental or other fees to the Guest for the reservation, then the Guest may be eligible for all or some of the Club Member privileges and benefits that a Club Member would normally receive during the Club Member’s stay in the reserved Vacation Home.
If the Guest is renting, it is the responsibility of the Member to notify Member Services when making the reservation. Member privileges and benefits cannot be extended to Guests who rent Vacation Homes from Club Members.
Wow, that’s interesting. That means that renters should not be getting free parking. Lol. Never mind that I doubt anyone has let dvc know they are renting. I really think Disney is about to quash the rental market big time.
 
Back over a decade ago when DVC amended the POS regarding commercial renting and the 20 reservation limits, the last paragraph added was:

This policy is not intended, and shall not be deemed, either (i) to constitute an exclusive act or statement by the Association regarding any breach of the commercial activity prohibitions set forth in the Declaration of Condominium and Membership Agreement, or (ii) to be an exhaustive list of all activities that shall be deemed to be commercial activity. Accordingly, the Association reserves the right to promulgate such additional rules or to take such additional actions or measures as it deems appropriate with respect to any breach of such prohibitions.
Florida timeshare law seems friendly regarding rentals but I cannot find any requirements to allow commercial renting. FL timeshare law says management has to look out for the owners’ interests, and any changes have to apply broadly.

View attachment 764190

Above is SIX Grand Floridian reservations, all for the same room Dec 16-23, 2023.

A reasonable person might think renting out your DVC contract(s) more than you actually use it for personal use (self, family, friends, ie - known acquaintances) is tipping into commercial activity.

The only hard part of this question is what can actually be done about it.

Data from https://www.dvcrentalpros.com/confirmed-reservation-aggregator
Wow, that’s an insane amount of rentals for one week— and that’s only one broker!!!
 
Wow, that’s interesting. That means that renters should not be getting free parking. Lol. Never mind that I doubt anyone has let dvc know they are renting. I really think Disney is about to quash the rental market big time.
No that’s not a benefit that’s a right. Anything paid by dues isn’t excluded there, parking is entitled the same as use of the room because it’s a deeded part of the common elements you own. The benefits are defined in the paragraph above that one and exclusively refer to things (that as far as I know never been extended to anyone but the owner) like the membership extras.
 
Wow, that’s an insane amount of rentals for one week— and that’s only one broker!!!
It’s two brokers and three distinct rentals. The site they pulled from is an aggregation site. So unlikely this is a broker doing this but an owner not tied to either broker.

This site pulls from the bigger brokers so I guess 6 for a room that isn’t considered to be too difficult to get at 7 months (I’ve gotten it this year and last year for this time of year a few days after 7 months).
 
It’s two brokers and three distinct rentals. The site they pulled from is an aggregation site. So unlikely this is a broker doing this but an owner not tied to either broker.
Regardless, that’s only one week at one resort and one room type!! That’s huge. Disney has got to address this. They basically have outside brokers profiting at the expense of buyers. This isn’t casual renting.
 
Aah. But wait, can somebody do that? Wouldn’t the broker want some type of commitment to the listing?
They book them right away without a renter in order to get the reservation— in hopes of then finding a renter (speculative reservation). They call MS and change the name on the reservation.
 
Regardless, that’s only one week at one resort and one room type!! That’s huge. Disney has got to address this. They basically have outside brokers profiting at the expense of buyers. This isn’t casual renting.
I think you and I would have to beg to differ. It’s a moving goal post in this thread. This particular room is not hard to get, was easy to get at 7 months this year, is only 3 rooms out of how many at VGF (347 max units and 200 resort studios). These are also the most expensive studios and generally in a building most consider worse than the DVC building. It’s just 3 out of 200 for all resort studios and 3 out of 28 for theme park views (again not popular usually because of high point costs) and 3 out of 112 if you throw in theme park and lagoon views.

It doesn’t seem like much and again didn’t destroy the 7 month inventory, because again it was available. But that’s my view point. I don’t see many spec rentals for BCV studios, BWV standard view, AKV value/club. All those hard to get rooms are usually cheap in points with some unique feature and people seem to buy resale there to book at 11 months.

Edit to add the following week after 12/16 to 12/23 (12/23 to 12/30) has at least 4 rooms available in the Theme Park View. Some nights it has 9-10. This has been 2 weeks now into the 7 month window with a decent chunk of the 28 still available.

1685570321800.png
 
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I think you and I would have to beg to differ. It’s a moving goal post in this thread. This particular room is not hard to get, was easy to get at 7 months this year, is only 3 rooms out of how many at VGF (347 max units and 200 resort studios). These are also the most expensive studios and generally in a building most consider worse than the DVC building. It’s just 3 out of 200 for all resort studios and 3 out of 28 for theme park views (again not popular usually because of high point costs) and 3 out of 112 if you throw in theme park and lagoon views.

It doesn’t seem like much and again didn’t destroy the 7 month inventory, because again it was available. But that’s my view point. I don’t see many spec rentals for BCV studios, BWV standard view, AKV value/club. All those hard to get rooms are usually cheap in points with some unique feature and people seem to buy resale there to book at 11 months.
It’s not occasional. It’s patterns and it’s speculative and I’m annoyed if I see that and I’m trying to get that reservation with my own points. It’s not a good look. And now that I know that people are giving renters illegal free parking— I’m even more annoyed.
 
Regardless, that’s only one week at one resort and one room type!! That’s huge. Disney has got to address this. They basically have outside brokers profiting at the expense of buyers. This isn’t casual renting.

Except we don’t know who the owners are offering those rooms. Just because they are listed with a broker does not mean that the broker or a business is the one who booked those rooms on spec.

I do spec bookings all the time since we never know who is going at 11 months, none which are made for renting.

It could simply be an owner who knows that will be a popular rental and wants/needs to rent this year.
 
Wow, that’s interesting. That means that renters should not be getting free parking. Lol. Never mind that I doubt anyone has let dvc know they are renting. I really think Disney is about to quash the rental market big time.

Parking is not a benefit or a perk. It’s paid for via dues so anyone staying in the DVC room is not charged because Disney can’t charge for parking at DVC. Only one who could is the owner of the points.
 
I've always noted the DVC "Rules and Regulations" (current version 11-2021) are a relatively simple document which states it can be Amended, and the new R&Rs just need to be updated on the DVC website to be effective - obviously, there are some legal protections.

Oddly, just now I did notice reading in Section V. 3. b. (which is actually referencing Member Benefits and Privileges - so maybe nothing to do with bookings - seems to be in the blue card vs white card area of discussions) it seems to mention DVC members are to notify DVC if a Guest is Renting from the member? Possibly only applies if requesting a specific Benefit, but the terminology is there.... BOLD is mine for emphasis.

3. Making Reservations for Guest.

a. Club Members may use their Home Resort Vacation Points to reserve Vacation Homes that will be occupied by Guests.

b. When a Club Member uses Home Resort Vacation Points to reserve Vacation Homes on behalf of a Guest, and the Club Member does not charge any rental or other fees to the Guest for the reservation, then the Guest may be eligible for all or some of the Club Member privileges and benefits that a Club Member would normally receive during the Club Member’s stay in the reserved Vacation Home.
If the Guest is renting, it is the responsibility of the Member to notify Member Services when making the reservation. Member privileges and benefits cannot be extended to Guests who rent Vacation Homes from Club Members.
That definitely seems like a blue/white issue as you mentioned. Renters won't be able to show digital membership cards when making purchases, or trying to access lounges etc... so perhaps prompting members to disclose will open the opportunity for CMs to explain that Renters won't have access to benefits.
 
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And now that I know that people are giving renters illegal free parking— I’m even more annoyed.
They aren't getting illegal free parking, first off parking is free at all resorts now regardless (don't charge for cash stays anymore, except AUL/VDH/VGC) and secondly owners have a right to the parking because our dues pay for it. It isn't a benefit (which again is defined in the Rules and Regulations) but an entitlement do to ownership. It would be a kin to saying renters can't use the bathroom in the room, the swimming pool, the bed in the room because we pay/own for those things.
 
I'm going to say it again: I think that aggregator website is BS. First, of the 2,600 "confirmed" reservations, a full 350 are for dates that have already passed, with some as old as 6 weeks ago. When did it last "aggregate? Also, for the units allegedly listed by the board sponsor, I can't find a single matching reservation, using nearly a dozen random date searches comparing that web page with the list available on the board sponsor's page.

There are over 2,600 confirmed reservations that are in order from the closest check in date. They list the important details and where to go to find them. We update this list daily.
Cool, can you check on this one for me, that you claim was updated today?:
1Grand Floridian Villas4/15/20234/17/20232Resort StudioTheme Park View$1,200$60075$16DVC Rental Store
Or how about this one, almost four pages in:
352Boardwalk Villas5/30/20235/31/20231Deluxe StudioStandard$325$32510$33DVC Shop
 
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I'm going to say it again: I think that aggregator website is BS. First, of the 2,600 "confirmed" reservations, a full 300 are for dates that have already passed, with some as old as 6 weeks ago. When did it last "aggregate? Also, for the units allegedly listed by the board sponsor, I can't find a single matching reservation, using nearly a dozen random date searches comparing that web page with the list available on the board sponsor's page.


Cool, can you check on this one for me, that you claim was updated today?:

Or how about this one, almost four pages in:
Also not wrong given that those 3 rentals (that seem to be the topic of conversation) listed on David's and DVC Rental Store for VGF in a Theme Park view aren't on the sites. I can't find them at all.
 
Also not wrong given that those 3 rentals (that seem to be the topic of conversation) listed on David's and DVC Rental Store for VGF in a Theme Park view aren't on the sites. I can't find them at all.
I went searching out to August, September and October, just in case closer rentals had been taken or dropped off for other reasons (and skipped early December for the same reason), but it seems to be ridiculously inaccurate regardless of when you look.
 
One thing that DVD could enforce the no commercial rentals. This would effectively close down all the 3rd party sites. Wouldn't take much for Disney to find out who is using these services and for Disney to cancel the reservations. With the "new" language these 3rd party services have in their contracts the owner will be on the hook for getting their guests a room after they show up with no DCV accommodations.
There is no “commercial rental” prohibition in our membership contract. The contract prohibits using the membership for commercial rather than personal purposes. Occasional rentals, using whatever means, do not violate this rule. Incidentally the contract also states that DVD can use “reasonable” discretion to define commercial use. This made up distinction of renting “ on the internet” or through use of 3rd party brokers, clearly doesn’t pass the “reasonable” threshold requirement.
 
With all this talk about rentals limiting availability for members, is it just me who is (1) always able to get exactly what I want at 11 months, (2) usually able to get what I want, or something close to it, at 7-11 months, and (3) very often, via waitlist or stalking, able to get something that makes me very happy when much closer than 7 months?
 
With all this talk about rentals limiting availability for members, is it just me who is (1) always able to get exactly what I want at 11 months, (2) usually able to get what I want, or something close to it, at 7-11 months, and (3) very often, via waitlist or stalking, able to get something that makes me very happy when much closer than 7 months?
No, it's not just you. IMO, any"fix" to the perceived problem, would be worse than the "problem" it's trying to fix.
 
In my 60 years on this planet, one of the more amusing observations I have made is that when the subject of rule changes arise, Be it sports, civil or criminal law, the tax code, travel, whatever, those who are most vocally against it are typically those most in fear of being in violation of said rule changes.

In other words, the most vocal or argumentative voices on either side are usually the least objective.
 

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