2022 Point Charts Are Out

[JETSDAD]

Is this for a certain travel period? They're not allowed to increase the total pool of points - only adjust. Also, I don't see where you're getting that bungalows only went up - July 4th went from 154points to 140.

This is taking a single room in each category for the entire year. If you booked a Bungalow every night of the year in 2021 vs 2022 for instance then it would cost you 92 more points for the entire year in 2022 (overall that's a very small percentage). The total points to book all rooms can go up from year to year. How days fall can change the overall total up or down between two given years....the comparison is made back to the base year. So if the total points sold at a resort is 4million, one year the total might be 3,999,900 points to book all the rooms for a year and the next it could be 4 mil right on. Yes that second year was more points across the board than the first year but the total is still fine.

 

[Memorymakerfor4]

My kids are aging into school years where we're going to avoid pulling them out for vacations if we can help it, so the lower summer points benefit us for now. Unfortunately, like a lot of districts, our schools are also looking at adding days to the calendar and shifting dates to make up what kids have missed from Covid closures. So, it looks like a lot of June and July vacations for us for the next few years. Just saying that makes me feel like I'm melting.

 

[gisele2]

...and I just realized I’m now 3 points shy of that plan when we go weeks 47 & 48 and want to trade up to a 1BR (which presumes we’re cancelling week 44 that year and combining that with my CCV resale points to trade up). I can of course borrow, or use other points at 7 months, but I guess maybe I should keep my eyes open now for a small CCV resale contract in Sep... ;-)

Always a good idea to keep looking

 

[gisele2]

one way to look at RVA for the 2021 to 2022 point charts is to break it down into two steps ...

1. seasons shifting of dates to new seasons
   • summer lower season
   • fall higher season
   • mid-Dec higher season
   • spring break later causing more higher season days
2. points the cost per villa type were tweaked to balance the chart after doing step #1

we all know the seasons not the same but the gaps between seasons are also not the same, the different steps are different amounts; for example: with everything but one bedrooms, the increase from season C to D is smaller than the increase from season D to E (second chart below); why does this matter? we might think that moving one week from season C to D (increase) is balanced by moving one week from E to D (decrease) but it isn't; pulling a deluxe studio - preferred as an extreme example (others are smaller differences) ...

2021 dsp season C 155 points per week​

2021 dsp season D 162 points per week (+7 points)​

2021 dsp season E 183 points per week (+21 points)​

... which gives us ...

+7 points move one week from C to D​

-21 points move one week from E to D​

-14 net points from moving one week up and one week down​

this is why there are more days that went up a season (80 days) than down a season (66 days)

after shifting days to the seasons you want (#1 above, first chart below) the point charts need to be tweaked to keep points decently balanced (#2 above, third chart below)

here are some charts that may help visualize the changes (first chart applies to all Walt Disney World resorts, second to fifth chart are for RVA but the theory works for all resorts) ...

days that moved
View attachment 543011

View attachment 543012
season A is greyed out as it's the starting point, season G (Easter + Christmas) is greyed out because it's the largest increase by far for all unit types so proportional shading is out of whack when it's included

View attachment 543065

View attachment 543014
season A is greyed out as it's the starting point, season G (Easter + Christmas) is greyed out because it's the largest increase by far for all unit types so proportional shading is out of whack when it's included

View attachment 543015

the lock-off premium (on an annual basis) was increased by step #1 (shifting dates to new seasons) and DVC adjusted the point charts in step #2 to reduce the lock-off premium increase; net effect was a slight decrease for standard view and slight increase for preferred view

lock-off premium (ds +1b > 2b by X points per day, average for year)

point chart	standard	preferred
base 2021​	6.90​	10.23​
base 2022 seasons​	7.23 +0.33​	11.10 +0.87​
base 2022 seasons + points​	6.53 -0.70 (-0.37 net to base 2021)​	10.59 -0.51 (+0.36 net to base 2021)​

my takeaways ...

• seasons (step #1) the prime objective was to shift fall into a higher season and summer into a lower season (first chart)
• points (step #2) because the gaps between seasons are ≠, the points per villa in the seasons had to be tweaked and the focus was mainly on seasons C and D (third chart)
• the lock-off premium wasn't affected significantly
• the total points for the Base Year (1 Jan = Sun is my assumption) didn't change significantly
  • RVA total 6,739,966
  • 2020 6,739,966 (100.00%)
  • 2021 6,739,779 (100.00%)
  • 2022 6,758,866 (100.28%)
• for the 40 units declared (as of 16 Mar 2020), the largest change was a reduction of 0.73% points per unit
  • unit 3A: 3x ts + 1x 3b
  • 2021 64,900 points per year
  • 2022 64,428 points per year
• for RVA, the changes seem to accomplish the prime objective while thoughtfully trying to stay away from things the have excited people in the past

edit: typos, slight tweaks for readability

Thanks again for the time you spent to explain all this in great details.

 

[mdembko]

Is this for a certain travel period? They're not allowed to increase the total pool of points - only adjust. Also, I don't see where you're getting that bungalows only went up - July 4th went from 154points to 140.

My understanding of Total Resort points is the same as yours, they can not increase, only be adjusted (reallocated) between vacation homes by travel period. Our home resort is PVB and I have not found an accurate count on total points sold and I don't think it is something that DVCMC is willing to disclose. There are a couple sites that have estimated total points at 4.032,720 and the only way I have found to estimate is to look at the Maximum Reallocation Chart in the Multi-Site POS which would total 4,069,020 points. I have been told that my method is not valid, but I choose to use this number to compare to total resort points increases in the past few years (since the original 2020 points chart fiasco). By my estimate, total points have increased annually:
2020 - 4,030,240
2021 - 4,034,592
2022 - 4,055,620
I guess I'm OK with this as long as total points don't exceed my TP estimate, and they don't start shifting large amounts of points from Bungalows to Studios.

 

[Sandisw]

My understanding of Total Resort points is the same as yours, they can not increase, only be adjusted (reallocated) between vacation homes by travel period. Our home resort is PVB and I have not found an accurate count on total points sold and I don't think it is something that DVCMC is willing to disclose. There are a couple sites that have estimated total points at 4.032,720 and the only way I have found to estimate is to look at the Maximum Reallocation Chart in the Multi-Site POS which would total 4,069,020 points. I have been told that my method is not valid, but I choose to use this number to compare to total resort points increases in the past few years (since the original 2020 points chart fiasco). By my estimate, total points have increased annually:
2020 - 4,030,240
2021 - 4,034,592
2022 - 4,055,620
I guess I'm OK with this as long as total points don't exceed my TP estimate, and they don't start shifting large amounts of points from Bungalows to Studios.

I happen to agree with you that the maximum reallocation chart..which treats all days as equal is a good way to get the total.

Points can not go up against the total and it’s based on a a base year as well. So, year to year, from my understanding can fluctuate because of the different number of weekends, etc,

But, as long as it’s not more than it’s okay, I do think some years will be a little less because of the travel periods and those dates seem to be constant...except holiday.

 

[drusba]

As to total points applicable to each resort, in July 2020 i<3riviera posted the totals as provided in actual filings made by DVD, https://www.disboards.com/threads/public-offering-statements.3808037/#post-62154485

 

[i<3riviera]

͏

 

[Minniemoo15]

PVB is 4,032,200 points according to the latest POS insert (revision of POS without re-issuing the full document) ...
https://www.disboards.com/threads/public-offering-statements.3808037/post-62154485
edit: haha jinx @drusba!

My understanding of Total Resort points is the same as yours, they can not increase, only be adjusted (reallocated) between vacation homes by travel period. Our home resort is PVB and I have not found an accurate count on total points sold and I don't think it is something that DVCMC is willing to disclose. There are a couple sites that have estimated total points at 4.032,720 and the only way I have found to estimate is to look at the Maximum Reallocation Chart in the Multi-Site POS which would total 4,069,020 points. I have been told that my method is not valid, but I choose to use this number to compare to total resort points increases in the past few years (since the original 2020 points chart fiasco). By my estimate, total points have increased annually:
2020 - 4,030,240
2021 - 4,034,592
2022 - 4,055,620
I guess I'm OK with this as long as total points don't exceed my TP estimate, and they don't start shifting large amounts of points from Bungalows to Studios.

Doesn't this seem like a not-so-small discrepancy then, ? 4,032,200 for the POS insert and 4,055,620 calculated for 2022? 2020 was a Leap year so if anything, shouldn't it have had the most points of any recent year to account for an extra day...and yet it has 25,000 less points than 2022.

 

[mdembko]

Thank you i<3riviera and drusba.

 

[Chuck S]

Doesn't this seem like a not-so-small discrepancy then, ? 4,032,200 for the POS insert and 4,055,620 calculated for 2022? 2020 was a Leap year so if anything, shouldn't it have had the most points of any recent year to account for an extra day...and yet it has 25,000 less points than 2022.

It is 6/10ths of one percent.

 

[Minniemoo15]

It is 6/10ths of one percent.

So exceeding the total points sold by 25,000 is not something to be concerned about ? I’m not trying to be difficult just genuinely asking as a Poly owner who has seen her already-high March week rise by 10% in 2 years. If it’s legitimate - I am good. I have my concerns after the debacle that was the 2020 points charts and don’t have complete faith in DVC to do the right thing. If the experts on this site tell me this is all good I will drop it

 

[Chuck S]

So exceeding the total points sold by 25,000 is not something to be concerned about ? I’m not trying to be difficult just genuinely asking as a Poly owner who has seen her already-high March week rise by 10% in 2 years. If it’s legitimate - I am good. I have my concerns after the debacle that was the 2020 points charts and don’t have complete faith in DVC to do the right thing. If the experts on this site tell me this is all good I will drop it

Do we actually know the total points of the resort, including those retained by DVD/DVC? That is what we need to make a determination, not an estimate or guess of points sold. Then we could make a better determination. If you're concerned, I'd contact DVC Management for the total points chartered to PVB. Then if there is a discrepancy, you should complain. PVB is likely the easiest resort to do the math on, because there are no 2 bedroom lock-off units in the mix.

 

[mdembko]

From <3riviera post above, there are 4,032,200 according to the latest revision on the POS.
I definitely do not have a full understanding of the POS and every time I reread, it becomes more unclear. But my take was DVCMC sets the total number of Home Resort Vacation Points and this total number of points cannot changed, so even a 0.1% increase seems to be unjust. I know the calculation for total points is based on a "base year" which takes into account a 365 use day year with the least number of Fridays and Saturdays, I'm not sure whether this allows the points variations from year to year.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Do we actually know the total points of the resort, including those retained by DVD/DVC? That is what we need to make a determination, not an estimate or guess of points sold. Then we could make a better determination. If you're concerned, I'd contact DVC Management for the total points chartered to PVB. Then if there is a discrepancy, you should complain. PVB is likely the easiest resort to do the math on, because there are no 2 bedroom lock-off units in the mix.

Points declared are published in the POS so yes.

 

[Minniemoo15]

Do we actually know the total points of the resort, including those retained by DVD/DVC? That is what we need to make a determination, not an estimate or guess of points sold. Then we could make a better determination. If you're concerned, I'd contact DVC Management for the total points chartered to PVB. Then if there is a discrepancy, you should complain. PVB is likely the easiest resort to do the math on, because there are no 2 bedroom lock-off units in the mix.

According to the document ( from @i<3riviera - (thank you for that ! ) It is
4,032,200.
I don’t know if 25,000 over a significant difference or NBD.

 

[Lorana]

According to the document ( from @i<3riviera - (thank you for that ! ) It is
4,032,200.
I don’t know if 25,000 over a significant difference or NBD.

I'm no lawyer, of course, but my gut reaction is that if the total points are 4,032,200, even 1 point over is a problem. Especially because if you allow 25,000 one year, what's to say you don't add 25,000 next year, and the year after...

 

[sethschroeder]

I'm no lawyer, of course, but my gut reaction is that if the total points are 4,032,200, even 1 point over is a problem. Especially because if you allow 25,000 one year, what's to say you don't add 25,000 next year, and the year after...

See that's my thing with the Studio vs 1BR shift this year at RIV.

 

[ElizabethG]

I'm no lawyer, of course, but my gut reaction is that if the total points are 4,032,200, even 1 point over is a problem. Especially because if you allow 25,000 one year, what's to say you don't add 25,000 next year, and the year after...

My assumption would be that they have to be within a certain percent of the actual points for the resort. So, they couldn't increase year after year.

 

[Sandisw]

See that's my thing with the Studio vs 1BR shift this year at RIV.

At RIV, you have to really only look at 2 bedrooms and dedicated studios and 1 bedrooms because lock off premiums are not required to stay the same. They can increase so I think one really needs to look at 2 bedrooms.

What I don’t know though is how you determine with dedicated studios and 1 bedrooms.