The Marvels

[PolymerSkywalker]

I don’t doubt that some people catch more heck than others. I wish it wasn’t for the wrong reasons, but I am sure occasionally it is. The same way you see a project get criticized because they don’t like what the person starring in it stands for (I.e. Chris Pratt, Brie Larson, Mel Gipson, Tom Cruise, Leslie Jones, etc.).

I will still say make a great movie with an incredible story and nobody really cares. Tom Cruise is a freak who is a part of some very odd organizations…..but if you make Top Gun: Maverick people line up to see it. It was the right movie at the right time, with the right script, and the right actors.

Making great content that is universally loved is the key imho.

 

[BrianL]

I don’t doubt that some people catch more heck than others. I wish it wasn’t for the wrong reasons, but I am sure occasionally it is. The same way you see a project get criticized because they don’t like what the person starring in it stands for (I.e. Chris Pratt, Brie Larson, Mel Gipson, Tom Cruise, Leslie Jones, etc.).

I will still say make a great movie with an incredible story and nobody really cares. Tom Cruise is a freak who is a part of some very odd organizations…..but if you make Top Gun: Mavericks people line up to see it. It was the right movie at the right time, with the right script, and the right actors.

Making great content that is universally loved is the key imho.

Only that it's not. Nothing is universally loved. The Marvels is good - really good by superhero flick standards. There's no reason it should get any hate thrown at it. But, that's all subjective. There are people who didn't like Maverick. There are people who don't like Avatar. The success of those films has no bearing on it. The thing is, Tom Cruise nor James Cameron get subjected to racist and sexist diatribes regardless.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

You don’t think Tom Cruise gets ridiculed? You have literally criticized him aggressively on here. I can assure you he likely gets wheel barrows full of hate mail yearly.

He may not get the exact same kind of ridicule, but he gets plenty. I would say much more in fact than Mia DeCosta does.

Also you are wrong, the majority of people loved Maverick and Avatar 2. Maverick produced $1.5B and Avatar 2 produced $2.3 B in the box office. So yes 100%, most people like and wanted to see those movies.

Some people hate Gone with the Wind, but that doesn’t change that it is one of the most watched movies in cinematic history.

 

[BrianL]

You don’t think Tom Cruise gets ridiculed? You have literally criticized him aggressively on here. I can assume you he likely gets wheel barrows full of hate mail yearly.

He may not get the exact same kind of ridicule, but he gets plenty. I would say much more in fact than Mia DeCosta does.

Also you are wrong, the majority of people loved Maverick and Avatar 2. Maverick produced $1.5B and Avatar 2 produced $2.3 B in the box office. So yes 100% most people like and wanted to see those movies.

Some people hate Gone with the Wind, but that doesn’t change that it is one of the most watched movies in cinematic history.

I didn't say he get's ridiculed, I said he wasn't a target of those spewing racist and sexist views. He's a lunatic for sure.

I said that SOME people didn't like Maverick and a lot of people don't care for Avatar - you hear it all the time. Obviously a LOT of peopel do like them, but my point is that it is not "universal" - it never is.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I didn't say he get's ridiculed, I said he wasn't a target of those spewing racist and sexist views. He's a lunatic for sure.

I said that SOME people didn't like Maverick and a lot of people don't care for Avatar - you hear it all the time. Obviously a LOT of peopel do like them, but my point is that it is not "universal" - it never is.

Nothing has complete universal appeal, I get your point. I mean some people don’t like the Star Wars OT, I mean they are imbeciles, but they have a right to their opinion even if it is wrong. You literally hear people all the time talk about how beloved the SW OT is.

When something is said to have universal appeal it means most people like it. And yes, based on Avatar 2 having a 2.3B box office it was about as “universally” liked as you can get.

Same with Maverick, it was literally the only movie in that time frame people were willing to leave the safety of their homes for. It was a smash hit, and even the sale of aviator sunglasses took off after that movie.

 

[BrianL]

Nothing has complete universal appeal, I get your point. I mean some people don’t like the Star Wars OT, I mean they are imbeciles, but they have a right to their opinion even if it is wrong.

When something is said to have universal appeal it means most people like it. And yes, based on Avatar 2 having a 2.3B box office it was about as “universally” liked as you can get.

Same with Maverick, it was literally the only movie in that time frame people were willing to leave the safety of their homes for. It was a smash hit, and even the sale of aviator sunglasses took off after that movie.

That's not what "universal" means. Yes, I'm being pedantic, but you are the one who chose the word. There are always people who will dislike something. Also, to the original point, being a good movie still does not equate to box-office success.

 

[jade1]

I don't care, they can of course create what they want. Just hoping they make good money for the company's growth.

But heard a podcast questioning why Disney was great at Princess (female-girls fan base) needed IP to increase male-boys fan base and bought Marvel and Lucas for billions, (partly to compete with Universal) only to convert them to Princess-girls fan base.

Of course Disney has tons of male leads and characters, and Lucas MCU needs and had female leads, I think the podcast was just pointing out the urgency they seemed to be on to get this implemented.

 

[Smugpugmug]

But heard a podcast questioning why Disney was great at Princess (female-girls fan base) needed IP to increase male-boys fan base and bought Marvel and Lucas for billions, (partly to compete with Universal) only to convert them to Princess-girls fan base.

Not even sure if that was successful considering most people who saw the Marvels were male (I think the number was 65%?)

 

[HokieRaven5]

That's not what "universal" means. Yes, I'm being pedantic, but you are the one who chose the word. There are always people who will dislike something. Also, to the original point, being a good movie still does not equate to box-office success.

For this year Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning - Part 1 says hello. Both Critics and Audiences gave it strong marks, yet it fell flat at the box office. Not a big loss but still a disappointment for the studios who made it.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

65% early, but down to around 61% now I think. The male gaze for Brie in a tank top is a thing whether folks want to admit it or not.

Bottom line is comic book fans and the majority of fans who make up super hero fandom are male. I think the female fans are gaining ground, but it is still mostly men that want to watch superhero movies. Just like it was mostly women that drove the Barbie box office.

I read comics in junior high and high school. Spider man, Batman, and X-men. Almost no girls at my school were into comics. All of those guys are in their 40s now and they go watch superhero movies. I drag my wife to some, and she humors me. I also watch a few romantic comedies with her, as that is her movie preference.

 

[BrianL]

I don't care, they can of course create what they want. Just hoping they make good money for the company's growth.

But heard a podcast questioning why Disney was great at Princess (female-girls fan base) needed IP to increase male-boys fan base and bought Marvel and Lucas for billions, (partly to compete with Universal) only to convert them to Princess-girls fan base.

Of course Disney has tons of male leads and characters, and Lucas MCU needs and had female leads, I think the podcast was just pointing out the urgency they seemed to be on to get this implemented.

Speaking as a boy, I always liked the princess movies. Every kid I know did. We didn't necessarily think of them as "girls' movies." I really don't think they converted Star Wars and Marvel into being a girls' franchise, however they did expand the audience, which is no bad thing.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Of course who didn’t like the original Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and Beaty and the Beast? Great movies, that made Disney bank!

I can just about quote those movies word for word. I can also quote Mary Poppins.

However, it doesn’t come close to my love for Star Wars, well George Lucas Star Wars that is. You can have the garbage Disney has made and called Star Wars.

 

[nancipants]

I was going to type out a long, annoyed reply about how Star Wars isn't and has never been a franchise just for men, but I'm so tired of that damn argument and would rather waste my time writing Star Wars fanfiction.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I was going to type out a long, annoyed reply about how Star Wars isn't and has never been a franchise just for men, but I'm so tired of that damn argument and would rather waste my time writing Star Wars fanfiction.

No one ever said that, however it is factual that the majority of Star Wars fans have been male. That is a verifiable fact.

I mean I love good live musical theater. Not many men do, so there are exceptions to every rule. I have seen Wicked about 10 times live, what a great story and show. My daughter can do a mean version of “not that girl” that won her a scholarship in college. I have watched Hamilton probably 30 times, its genius is incredible. The majority of men do not share my love of the theater.

 

[BrianL]

No one ever said that, however it is factual that the majority of Star Wars fans have been male. That is a verifiable fact.

And so what? Sure Star Wars has always skewed male, at least amongst the "hardcore fans" - it still does. I think more women are interested in such things these days though, but it's not because of anything Disney did. Nothing was changed. The movies still appeal to men. They appeal to women too. There is nothing to it.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

“Nothing was changed” SMH

Luke was made into an old grumpy loser and a young woman did everything he could do but much quicker and better. All done under Disney’s watchful eye.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

And so what? Sure Star Wars has always skewed male, at least amongst the "hardcore fans" - it still does. I think more women are interested in such things these days though, but it's not because of anything Disney did. Nothing was changed. The movies still appeal to men. They appeal to women too. There is nothing to it.

It was stated above that SW was just for men, and I literally don’t think anyone has ever said that…..like ever.

Also no one has ever said the Barbie movie was just for women.

However it is 100% factual that the majority of SW fans are male and the majority of Barbie fans are female. Why is that unacceptable to admit?

 

[BrianL]

It was stated above that SW was just for men, and I literally don’t think anyone has ever said that…..like ever.

Also no one have ever said the Barbie movie was just for women.

However it is 100% factual that the majority of SW fans are male and the majority of Barbie fans are female. What is that unacceptable to admit?

What's to admit? You're right about that. What you're not right about is the idea that somehow new Star Wars projects are aimed exclusively at women and that men aren't (shouldn't be?) interested. The movies haven't changed in that respect, even if more women are into them now.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Then why is interest in Star Wars projects falling among all fans? I mean “nothing was changed” right? If nothing was changed shouldn’t the demand for SW be just as high today as the day the mouse house purchased Lucasfilm?

 

[BrianL]

People change. Society changes. There's no guarantee that demand will stay that high forever. Also, one can argue about the quality of the films released. I think they're fine but some don't - but that quality has NOTHING to do with using female leads or targeting a different audience.