Crohns and DAS = denied. MODERATOR NOTE: No diagnosis is automatically allowed or denied for DAS. DAS is issued based on needs, not diagnosis

[DLgal]

I think that there are a lot of people that have the same experience as you, that don't do as many rides as the typical guest does. Some people have this theory in their heads that DAS is this huge bonus and that everyone gets on so many more rides than those who do not, and that is just not the case. Of course there will be some who lie and abuse the system, but that is never going to change. DAS is a fair compromise.

I think people underestimate 2 things about DAS users:

How much time they spend NOT doing rides on a typical park day

How much less time they spend in the parks overall compared to a typical visitor

 

[nalabear]

We renewed my son's DAS today and had an absolutely WONDERFUL experience with a gal at Guest Relations at DCA. Not only did she renew with no trouble, she offered to create Advance DAS return times for our other visits coming up in April. She asked "do you guys come often?" I said yes, so she then told me all about how they can make us Advance DAS return times for our next visit, we just have to ask in person ahead of it and they can do it. She basically insisted on doing it "so you can try it out" so we now have 2 return times for Easter Sunday lined up.

She was great. I think her name was Ashlynne. Or something like that. I am the worst with names.

Great to know! Saves a huge amount of time.

 

[lpereira]

They can obviously do whatever they want, but this would be a mistake. IBD and IBS are literally considered disabling conditions under ADA.

Yes but Disney doesn't legally have to offer DAS at all. Since they don't then no one is entitled to one as a matter of law.
Now if by mistake would it be a bad pr move? Possibly.

 

[lanejudy]

IBD and IBS are literally considered disabling conditions under ADA.

I think you know this but just to be clear for others ... the ADA does NOT specifically identify diagnoses as disabling conditions. The ADA defines a disability as "a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities." That's not to say IBD or IBS don't qualify under that, but stating the ADA considers these disabling conditions implies a list of qualifying diagnoses which the ADA does not maintain.

Yes but Disney doesn't legally have to offer DAS at all. Since they don't then no one is entitled to one as a matter of law.

That is a common misconception among people who wish to do away or limit accommodations. The ADA does require businesses to offer "reasonable accommodations" for people with disabilities. The specific accommodation is not spelled out and is left to the business to determine how to reasonably accommodate. There may be some disability needs that cannot reasonably be accommodated without interfering with business operations, but that doesn't mean no legal requirement to offer what can be accommodated.

I think people underestimate 2 things about DAS users:

How much time they spend NOT doing rides on a typical park day

How much less time they spend in the parks overall compared to a typical visitor

DAS is not intended to provided equal time or equal number of attractions per day or equal experience by any definition. It is intended to provide equal access to the attraction.

 

[nalabear]

DAS is not intended to provided equal time or equal number of attractions per day or equal experience by any definition. It is intended to provide equal access to the attraction.

I believe the point trying to be made is when 'others' look at DAS holders and believe DAS holders have some advantage in experiencing the parks

It reminds me of our DS' kindergarten teacher when one of his neurotypical typical said 'Not fair, I wish I had one of those iPads to type on', their teacher took a moment for a real life teaching moment on going through a day only using a keypad as means of communication.

No, you most likely don't want to walk a day in a DAS holder's shoes.

 

[serenitynow]

I believe the point trying to be made is when 'others' look at DAS holders and believe DAS holders have some advantage in experiencing the parks

It reminds me of our DS' kindergarten teacher when one of his neurotypical typical said 'Not fair, I wish I had one of those iPads to type on', their teacher took a moment for a real life teaching moment on going through a day only using a keypad as means of communication.

No, you most likely don't want to walk a day in a DAS holder's shoes.

Thank you

 

[OurBigTrip]

They can obviously do whatever they want, but this would be a mistake. IBD and IBS are literally considered disabling conditions under ADA.

Even if that was the case, having a disabling condition doesn’t automatically mean eligibility for DAS. There are plenty of disabling conditions that don’t qualify for DAS.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I believe the point trying to be made is when 'others' look at DAS holders and believe DAS holders have some advantage in experiencing the parks

It reminds me of our DS' kindergarten teacher when one of his neurotypical typical said 'Not fair, I wish I had one of those iPads to type on', their teacher took a moment for a real life teaching moment on going through a day only using a keypad as means of communication.

No, you most likely don't want to walk a day in a DAS holder's shoes.

DAS holders most definitely have an advantage in experiencing the parks. Whether they choose or are able to do so obviously differs from guest to guest. Bt there is no question that there is an advantage.

 

[Joanna71985]

Since when does DAS work for Character Meets?

It can be used for character locations that offer Lightning Lane

But not for Anna and Elsa in Norway?

no, because their location doesn't use Lightning Lane

 

[Lilsia]

DAS holders most definitely have an advantage in experiencing the parks. Whether they choose or are able to do so obviously differs from guest to guest. Bt there is no question that there is an advantage.

They can, depending on their issues. But typically, any advantages the DAS gives is usually off set by the person's medical disadvantages.

 

[DisneyOma]

DAS holders most definitely have an advantage in experiencing the parks. Whether they choose or are able to do so obviously differs from guest to guest. Bt there is no question that there is an advantage.

What would be one of the advantages, that every DAS holder would have? DAS eliminates waiting in the physical standby queue. That's all it does.

 

[OurBigTrip]

What would be one of the advantages, that every DAS holder would have? DAS eliminates waiting in the physical standby queue. That's all it does.

I’m well aware of what it does, thanks.

For those that choose to or are able to, they can ride other attractions, eat, or shop while they’re waiting for their return time. Things that non-DAS holders would have to do in addition to their “line time”, for lack of a better term.

 

[DisneyOma]

I’m well aware of what it does, thanks.

For those that choose to or are able to, they can ride other attractions, eat, or shop while they’re waiting for their return time. Things that non-DAS holders would have to do in addition to their “line time”, for lack of a better term.

As you have stated, not all can do that, so to most, IMO, it is not a huge advantage at all. Sometimes I spend the "down time" in first aid doing PT exercises so I can stay in the park a bit longer than usual for me. Very rarely do I get in another queue, as it is the queue itself that causes issues - which is what DAS is issued for in the first place. As for eating and shopping: we eat quick service in the parks, one meal only, and I can't afford to shop all day. I may wander around in a shop because I am looking to get out of the heat and sun, but shopping while waiting for a return time, over and over again? Who can afford to do that? So, out of your scenario, the one advantage I get is to be able to eat one quick service meal while waiting for one return time. I'd much rather not be disabled with a condition that can cause excruciating pain if not managed properly.

The only advantage that a true DAS-dependent guest gets is to be able to access attractions when they can't handle the standby queue.

 

[OurBigTrip]

As you have stated, not all can do that, so to most, IMO, it is not a huge advantage at all. Sometimes I spend the "down time" in first aid doing PT exercises so I can stay in the park a bit longer than usual for me. Very rarely do I get in another queue, as it is the queue itself that causes issues - which is what DAS is issued for in the first place. As for eating and shopping: we eat quick service in the parks, one meal only, and I can't afford to shop all day. I may wander around in a shop because I am looking to get out of the heat and sun, but shopping while waiting for a return time, over and over again? Who can afford to do that? So, out of your scenario, the one advantage I get is to be able to eat one quick service meal while waiting for one return time. I'd much rather not be disabled with a condition that can cause excruciating pain if not managed properly.

The only advantage that a true DAS-dependent guest gets is to be able to access attractions when they can't handle the standby queue.

We can agree to disagree on whether not DAS provides advantages that non-DAS guests would have to pay for.

 

[nalabear]

DAS holders most definitely have an advantage in experiencing the parks. Whether they choose or are able to do so obviously differs from guest to guest. Bt there is no question that there is an advantage.

What you're pointing out is the potential of abuse of what DAS can potentially allow; and the argument that it should be selective in its issuance.

I do agree there are folk who have tried to get DAS to gain such an advantage and also led to the current day DAS from the old GAC.

The contention is that most DAS users do not use it in such a manner. Even under the best circumstances, I would venture to bet most DAS users don't get even 1 standard deviation of the normal Disney guest.

 

[notatallmagic]

Yeah, I don;t think anybody would have a problem with one or two people leaving the line and then coming back if it weren't for all the groups that have one person get in line and then call and have twelve people join them just as they're nearing the front. If there was a policy that was enforced, it would help everybody.

I was thinking about this scenario - in our case, our group is either 2 or 3 people; we couldn't leave the one alone; and the one with the disability would generally need someone with her if she was having issues, so no way to leave and return and have someone "hold" a place.

And I agree with the frustration of the one person "holding" a place for 12. Have always hated that, and wouldn't want to be that.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

I think that one of the issues is that there are many different types of DAS users, and no one (besides Disney if they cared to look) has any way of knowing how big the populations are. Furthermore, one's perception of DAS probably varies significantly based on his/her own lived experience.

Simplistically, let's pretend that there are 3 types of users:

A: Severely disabled - this group struggles may only be able to manage a couple of rides even with accommodations. I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that no one would really complain about life being made slightly easier for this group.

B: "Average" DAS users - this group faces challenges, but with help may be able to have something resembling a "normal" Disney experience. Number of rides and quality of the experience depends on the day/individual. Eg. I have a friend who is a DAS user who can rope drop AND close the park, but others on the board find advanced selections too challenging and only manage a few rides before having to leave.

C: DAS cheaters (or more charitably those who don't REALLY need accommodations) - perhaps lured by the idea of the 2 advance selections or just the idea of maximizing park time, this group lies/stretches the truth in order to get accommodations. Without having any real limitations, they sign up for the best rides they can in advance, and then will book in park reservations for headliners while they stand in line for other rides, watch a show, eat, or shop. This group clearly has a better than "normal" park experience.

Because so many disabilities/limitations are not visible, it's impossible to know who is a B and who is a C. Disney does their best, but cast members are not perfect and it would be foolish to pretend that the C bucket does not exist. I have said this before but the advanced selection piece is the part that really bothers me because it is not available through Genie+ and gives a very strong incentive for "C" families to try to game the system, thus degrading the experience for DAS and non-DAS users alike.

 

[notatallmagic]

Ugh. DAS issues.

My kiddo's diagnosis requiring the DAS was right before COVID, so we're still learning. What has become abundantly clear (as I've shared on other DAS related posts) is that it IS totally necessary for her - when it didn't function properly, she had a very serious medical emergency while in line. Newly diagnosed, she didn't fully understand what was happening. So, necessary for her. No question.

One of the huge issues is Cast Member ignorance/attitude and/or poor training. Many others with my kid's condition may experience it differently. Others may have milder symptoms, or a more experience handling the diagnosis. That is not our reality. So when she had to apply for her first DAS after just turning 18, the phone Cast Member was super rude, made her cry, and told her she didn't qualify. We'd already booked airfare, hotel, everything (because of the 30 day thing); and would have needed to cancel the trip. We did try again with me there (mama bear) and the DAS was granted.

I did take the time to write a lengthy letter to Disney, and email it to every address I could find, explaining that we were NOT renewing our Annual Passes, since we could not be assured that we would be able to experience the parks safely. I explained what had happened, and how rudely she had been treated. I explained how our "new Disney normal" of experiencing the parks was VASTLY different that what we'd been able to do before (for all of those who think the DAS allows you to do more, I say BULLSH%*!) compared to what we can do now IF we are granted the DAS. And I explained that Disney had always been a safe, happy escape for us, and this ridiculous process made Disney planning a stressful nightmare (among other Disney choices lately).

I did hear back from Disney, and was assured that Cast Member training (we go to Florida; would NEVER risk California for this reason alone) would be a priority. We had two sets of pre-purchased tickets on our account that we are hoping to use for short trips in June (2 days) and August (1 day). IF we encounter issues, we are now Universal Passholders, and can go there and not lose our airfare; and I will be demanding refunds for those tickets. On a side note, our experience at Universal with their pass has been an A++; our initial application call was kind and quick; and they saved our "number" and re-issued our pass for our second trip within about 15 seconds over the phone.

I agree that abuse has caused issues with the system, but all the DAS allows us to do is experience that parks in a limited way, compared to what we used to be able to do. Like the OP; some days for my kid are much better than others, but still much less "efficient" that what we could do pre-diagnosis. For others, it's a few hours at best - and pretty miserable for her for even that short time. This is a kiddo who was once an endurance athlete headed to a military academy to both compete and serve - who now can't even make it through a theme park day without accommodations. Disney's crappy treatment of vulnerable folks is shameful IMO. Certainly not magicial.

 

[notatallmagic]

I think that one of the issues is that there are many different types of DAS users, and no one (besides Disney if they cared to look) has any way of knowing how big the populations are. Furthermore, one's perception of DAS probably varies significantly based on his/her own lived experience.

Simplistically, let's pretend that there are 3 types of users:

A: Severely disabled - this group struggles may only be able to manage a couple of rides even with accommodations. I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that no one would really complain about life being made slightly easier for this group.

B: "Average" DAS users - this group faces challenges, but with help may be able to have something resembling a "normal" Disney experience. Number of rides and quality of the experience depends on the day/individual. Eg. I have a friend who is a DAS user who can rope drop AND close the park, but others on the board find advanced selections too challenging and only manage a few rides before having to leave.

C: DAS cheaters (or more charitably those who don't REALLY need accommodations) - perhaps lured by the idea of the 2 advance selections or just the idea of maximizing park time, this group lies/stretches the truth in order to get accommodations. Without having any real limitations, they sign up for the best rides they can in advance, and then will book in park reservations for headliners while they stand in line for other rides, watch a show, eat, or shop. This group clearly has a better than "normal" park experience.

Because so many disabilities/limitations are not visible, it's impossible to know who is a B and who is a C. Disney does their best, but cast members are not perfect and it would be foolish to pretend that the C bucket does not exist. I have said this before but the advanced selection piece is the part that really bothers me because it is not available through Genie+ and gives a very strong incentive for "C" families to try to game the system, thus degrading the experience for DAS and non-DAS users alike.

Great insight - but I would add that there are also users who might (on a good day) look like a "C", but on the very next day, be an "A" - not all days in the life of a disability are linear or predictable.

We've probably been at the parks 20+ days since diagnosis, and if I recall, my kiddo probably had 1 or 2 days where we spent a full day in the park, doing almost what we used to do "before". Then we've probably had at least 5-7 where we had a very limited park experience, and the rest of the days somewhere in the middle. Factors can include weather, sunlight, and a multitude of other random and uncontrollable issues.

In any event, not everyone fits neatly into once of those groups. Maybe the true cheaters are always cheaters, but those legitimate users' needs vary. I do know/feel strongly that the original FastPass system would have/did work MUCH better for us; and that Disney unintentionally created this problem by charging for what used to be free.

 

[lpereira]

I think you know this but just to be clear for others ... the ADA does NOT specifically identify diagnoses as disabling conditions. The ADA defines a disability as "a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities." That's not to say IBD or IBS don't qualify under that, but stating the ADA considers these disabling conditions implies a list of qualifying diagnoses which the ADA does not maintain.



That is a common misconception among people who wish to do away or limit accommodations. The ADA does require businesses to offer "reasonable accommodations" for people with disabilities. The specific accommodation is not spelled out and is left to the business to determine how to reasonably accommodate. There may be some disability needs that cannot reasonably be accommodated without interfering with business operations, but that doesn't mean no legal requirement to offer what can be accommodated.


DAS is not intended to provided equal time or equal number of attractions per day or equal experience by any definition. It is intended to provide equal access to the attraction.

It isn't a common misconception. There are now 2 court rulings that take a dim view of the accommodation that DAS provides. Both say nothing in ADA obligates Disney or any theme park or other business to provide alternate line waiting experiences. The first ruling was in the middle of the 2013 DAS lawsuit issued (and held in abeyance by the 11th circuit) and the other was the October 19, 2022 ruling which cannot be appealed that says the same thing. Someone could start a new lawsuit but that scam of a plaintiff's lawyer in the last case stipulated that DAS is an undue burden on businesses. So now Disney has that defense as a matter of legal record. How do you think the 11th will rule next time? How about SCOTUS? Neither are going to side with interpretations of law by regulatory agencies. Chevron is dead and West Virgjna v EPA burned the body of Chevron.