lockedoutlogic
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2007
Right...but the details of this new thing are not known.
I'm just looking for real deal...not stats on the dolphin.
I'm just looking for real deal...not stats on the dolphin.
This could spell even more trouble for the Disney-owned Epcot resorts. Aren't the Boardwalk and Yacht &Beach resorts already struggling to fill rooms?
Can't speak about the Boardwalk, but Y&B are very popular. They don't have trouble filling rooms.
And has the whole Marriott/Sheraton merger gone through?
Probably going to be some sort boutique hotel or loft style or something aimed at a different clientele- probably those attracted to the swolphin but smaller and more expensive
If you have status, its waived.
Would that be Tischman (who warred with disney for decades), MetLife, or Starwood?
This is a classic case of "uncomplicating the complicated"
What's the land/lease deal?
I just want to to know the geek stuff...what's the ransom?
Right...but the details of this new thing are not known.
I'm just looking for real deal...not stats on the dolphin.
Sorry, I thought when you asked about land/lease deal you were referring to the Swan/Dolphin ....
because the land that the new hotel will be located on is part of the long term land lease deal with Tishman/Swan&Dolphin.
But given they have different brands in their portfolio it doesn't mean it will be a Sheraton or Westin.
I didn't know that. I've read where the occupancy rate for all of their Epcot Resorts leaves something to be desired. Hopefully you are right, because the Boardwalk and Beach Club are two favorite resorts of mine and they deserve to be successful.
As someone who spent over a decade working in hotels, I wouldn't describe a 350 room hotel as "boutique". With a few exceptions like Las Vegas, a hotel with that many rooms would be considered a major hotel in any city in the world.
I do agree that this will likely be a luxury property. Something to go after the Four Seasons and Waldorf Astoria customers. I think Orlando could support another Ritz-Carlton. Or perhaps a St Regis or W Hotel.
According to a frequent business traveler forum I visit, resort fees for the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin hotels are no longer waived for elite-level guests. Instead, it is discounted to somewhere around $20-25/night.
Don't know the occupancy of the boardwalk area hotels...but filling deluxes has been a "quiet" problem for a while - particulate animal kingdom, wilderness lodge, and the monorail resorts...
Look at it this way: if those rooms in the poly and wilderness lodge were filling at $500 a night...why convert? It's not like housekeeping is that expensive...
To decrease risk profile. Why hold the risk of empty hotel rooms during an economic downturn if you can get someone to take that risk for you with an extremely Disney friendly contract? The margins maybe lower, but you are offloading a tremendous amount of economic risk. In addition, while it is almost impossible for someone to compete with Disney's theme parks, it is much easier to compete in the market of Orlando hotel rooms.
A new luxury hotel - I agree 350 rooms isn't a "boutique" - probably does have a good market already set as a higher end offering.
I think what would be interesting is that another Waldorf or seasons type hotel will cause more strain on an existing issue: why are the disney deluxes so expensive?
"What's so "grand" about my $600 room where anyone off the street can book the restaurants solid and kids run through the bar in their bathing suit?"
You're looking at it from the textbook angle...not the realities of wdw.
Wilderness lodge had fallen to 50% occupancy prior to conversion ...the traditional wdw hotel occupancy was 85-95% year round.
Timeshares are a win on all levels for them...guaranteed bookings and revenue streams...
My point is that they would have added in timeshares without hesitation if the rack rooms were filled as they had been traditionally...which means they weren't filled.
There's economic reality...and Disney economic reality...it's a discipline unto its own.
To justify $200/nt for the Motel 6 experience at the values.
You know my drum beat on this, Disney sold DVC to the regulars that previously filled the deluxe rooms. Now they have to convert deluxe rooms to DVC to reduce deluxe inventory which further shrinks the deluxe customer pool.
Yes...but it's deeper than that...
Most bucket brigaders argue "That fabulous location!!!!"
Ok...partly...and that works on the matching tshirt crowd...but to the more "whale" types that know good hotels...it doesn't wash. And disney tries to sell that they can cater to those people (until they sold land to gates to build the four seasons...at least)...
Disney "deluxes" are pretty awful on services/amenities in comparison...especially staffing skill and capabilities. I had college programmers working the desk under me at the grand...and one was in concierge. Couldn't really sell $369 a night for that back then (about $600 now)...
It doesn't fly...and as Eisner/iger kept Ramping hotel rates (before the more public food and ticket hikes)...the cracks began to really let loose in the damn.