You may not want to think about this

[FredS]

As someone who already owns points at two DVC resorts, and seriously looking to buy a fairly large contract at a third, I had my first truly anxious moment, thinking about "what if" relating to if they worst happens and I am sitting on a large number of DVC points.

I guess part of it is realizing that Disney, by seriously exercising its ROFR, is keeping up the resale value of DVC. Also, obviously, the intrinsic value is maintained by the care and attention paid to the resorts on a daily basis. However, I realized how much faith I am putting in Disney to still be Disney 10, 20, 30 years from now. I would NEVER buy any other timeshare at these prices and with these maintenance fees, because I would be too concerned that in the very near future the developer would move on, the resort would spiral down in quality, and I would be stuck with points, weeks, whatever that were not worth the amount of dues I was obliged to pay.

Does this make sense to anyone but me? Are we all just hoping and assuming that Disney will keep up its quality no matter who is in charge because their main strength is in their reputation for that quality?

 

[DebbieB]

I bought in 1999 and have already gained back my purchase price when you add up the rack rates of the rooms. So if it falls in 10 years, I got my money's worth no matter what.

 

[DavidRoss]

I did feel very confident in my decision to purchase DVC when I purchased 5 years ago. Although, with all the negative publicity surrounding Disney as of recent, it does make me a little uneasy. When you look at all the controversy surround Eisner for instance, it more or less saddens me and to some extent, devalues the company as a whole. I remember when I bought in, I was so excited. Sometimes I get a little depressed though when I read such negative headlines about Disney. I am also one of those people who has noticed a decline in the quality of the parks and disney grounds. This has me concerned as an owner. I remember last October, my wife and I went to Sea World. We were so impressed at the clenliness and the upkeep of the grounds when we were there. It was immaculate! I remember I used to feel that way about Disney but no longer do. I don't know if this is because I am an owner and have therefore been to Disney many times in recent years (3-4 times a year) and have gotten used to the grounds and therefore look beyond the beauty of what is there seing the negative. Or if it is because they truly have been slipping in upkeep, etc. I remember about a year and a half ago, we were walking by Journey into Imagination and I looked down into the pond and saw a dead rabbit floating around. I told a cast member about it right away. When we came back by about 3 hours later, the dead rabbit was still there. It's things like this that make me feel sad about Disney. For the prices for everything they charge for, I feel I should be able to expect superior service and surroundings and shouldn't have to compromise. After all as the old saying goes -"You get what you pay for." Lately, I don't feel that is the case with Disney. I am a person who likes to by clothes as a souvenier. I can get a polo shirt for $19.00 at Sea World, $22.00 at Universal and $38.00 to $42.00 at Disney. What gives? It isn't better quality. It is just the name on the tag. Disney has had so many wonderful memories for me and my family (folks, grandparents, cousins, etc.). Although, Disney has lost some of it's lustre in my opinion. I just hope this doesn't carry over to the timeshare part of Disney too much. I have already seen some signs of it though. On my last trip to Vero, I spent an hour cleaning off the black scuff marks on the walls and the dust and spashed on filth and crud (chocolate milk or something) off the closet door. I did it because I was inviting some family to stay with us and I wanted them to be impressed and didn't want to wait for housekeeping. I was angry all the while I was doing it though. For 1.5 to 2 times the amount of dues I pay above what I would for another timeshare with similar accomodations, I should be able to expect near perfection with my room - other than normal wear and tear, when I check in. I shouldn't have to "reclean" anything. I just keep thinking that because tourism was down so much due to the events of 9/11/01, that so many cuts had to be made in the tourism industry as a whole. I still think that everyone is catching up from those events and hope we will see an improvement in the next couple of years.

Just my thoughts.

 

[jaysue]

I think DVC is worth the investment and that WDW will continue under whatever onwership structure comes along to be a prime Orlando attraction and thus justify the premium paid for the location

Having said that every time we see something we think is below the quality we expect we should write a letter to the appropriate people at WDW and/or DVC. Likewise, where quality is equal to or higher than expected a letter should go to the same people to provide a balanced view

thanks
jaysue

 

[Doug Wolfe]

I've never looked at DVC as being an actual investment, so the resale values have little interest to me.

I am more along the lines of what DebbieB states. After a few years of not paying rack rates, I am way ahead of the game.

Over the years I have dropped thousands on annual vacations at WDW and elsewhere. Now I feel I have something in return for many years to come.

 

[jarestel]

Looking at any timeshare purchase as an investment probably isn't the right way to go about it. But as they say in real estate, location is everything and that alone should keep DVC prices fairly stable over the years. ( as long as WDW remains the worldwide-wide draw that it is today and over the last 30 years, of course )

 

[FredS]

I am not talking about DVC as an investment. I am talking about some tiny nagging concern that Disney, in many years, may do as many other timeshares do and are not worth the amount of maintenance fees due. (Forget the initial cost to purchase, that has nothing to do with my concern.)

For example, in a bad case scenerio: Disney loses interest in DVC resorts, and they start to slide in quality, maintenance fees go up sharply, you have 500 points and, in ten years, are obligated to pay $5000 annually for those points. No one is particularly interested in renting those points from you, you are no longer enamored of DVC as you can stay somewhere nicer for less money than your maintenance costs and/or you just aren't too thrilled with WDW anymore. It gets to the point, as with numerous other timeshares, where you are lucky to be able to ditch the contract and get out from any your dues obligation.

I would hope and do believe that I would still "get my money's worth" but the concern is having larger number of points and being stuck with fees that are burdensome for some period when you are not getting a return from DVC, be it from yourself and your friends and family enjoying vacations there, or from being able to rent points to help with the dues.

 

[jarestel]

FredS,
There are no guarantees, right? Everyone should evaluate the what-ifs and risks before plunking down the initial cash. I think most of us see Disney and DVC as viable over the long term, but we could be wrong. You make your long term decisions based on the information available at the time and hope for the best.

 

[Chuck S]

You also know that if the resorts do ever get shoddy in the maintenance department, and the dues reach ridiculous levels to the point that a huge majority of owners no longer wish to remain part of the DVC program, the owners can bring in a new management/maintenance company...like Fairfield or Marriott.

No-one knows what tomorrow will bring, but OKW has had excellent upkeep and service from DVC during its 13 year history, I don't see that changing.

 

[happyrebster]

This is one of the main reasons that I wanted to purchase a "points style" timeshare rather than a deeded interest. I did NOT want to own the darn thing outright forever. First, I can't use it forever. I'm going to die someday. Second, given that fact, I never liked the idea of a developer that simply sells off the whole building and then walks away with his cash. Disney Corp. has a vested interest in the property's long-term value because the property will revert to them eventually. In the case of the older properties, it will revert to DIsney in just a few more decades. In the case of SSR, I'm not worried about too much wear and tear yet because it is brand new. So I know I will be able to enjoy that aspect for a while.

So, sure, anything can happen. But, as compared to many other timeshares we looked at, I think DVC does have some points in its favor with regard to those particular concerns.

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by FredS
For example, in a bad case scenerio: Disney loses interest in DVC resorts, and they start to slide in quality, maintenance fees go up sharply...

I think this is a bit of an oxymoron. Maintenance fees are tied directly to the operating costs for the resort. So, the only way this could happen would be if DVC doubled the staff at the resort and allowed people to loaf around all day long.

If something like that were to happen, I'm with Chuck S...it wouldn't take long for DVC to be replaced by another management company.

 

[PamOKW]

Disney continues to treat the DVC resorts as they do any other WDW resort. There would be no reason for them to allow things to "fall apart" unless the whole Orlando theme park tourism industry ground to a halt. With the upswing in convention/business travel starting to match the upswing in recreational travel, I don't forsee any panic that things will fall apart. Despite it's problems, Disney weathered the last few tough years. Things are now picking up and I would expect to see continued improvement at WDW -- not a decline.

 

[disneycrazed139]

Maybe things have gone a little downhill, maybe they haven't. I can't say because I haven't gone frequently enough, but I do know that the last time I was there, things were pretty immaculate in the resort department. I really couldn't find fault with much. However, it's easier to see differences if you're exposed to the same thing again and again. It's like when you view a movie multiple times and you notice things that you didn't before. I wonder if this happens to repeat vacationers.

I think ROFR is good for owners, and, as someone else already mentioned, the fact that these properties eventually return to Disney's possession.

 

[tinkerbee]

I don't believe that they will lose intrest in
DVC. They put alot of time and effort to put this product out to make sure people
keep coming back to Disney World. DVC
members spend ALOT of money at DW and I don't think they would want to risk
lossing the trust and money of DVCers.

 

[CarolMN]

I agree with PamOKW - any "declines" are almost certainly associated with the drop in tourism and now that things are really picking up, things will get better.

I have read that Disney is actively hiring again to increase staffing levels and that many of the "problems" are related to the lower staff levels. It's tough to be in a hiring "catch up" mode. I know - have been in that situation. It takes time - lots more than you want/need it to take. It's also rough on the existing staff - they get to work lots more hours than they expected and it's often mandatory.

It's in Disney's best interest to keep up the resorts - I'm not at all worried.

Interesting discussion, though.

 

[Sam60]

"If something like that were to happen, I'm with Chuck S...it wouldn't take long for DVC to be replaced by another management company."

I am not so sure. If owners really have this much say in what goes on, would Mike Eisner still be siphoning millions from the company?

Having said that, I do not regret having bought into DVC. There is an element of risk in any major purchase. In the case of DVC, I think that the odds are in our favor that WHOEVER is running Disney will see it is in their best interests to maintain overall value.

 

[Chuck S]

Why would you be unsure? It is spelled out in our contracts. Eisner and the Walt Disney Company Directors operate much different from DVC. Stockholder votes for "non-approval" are not legally binding, the board of directors, as long as they are elected, are in control of the company. Shareholders have very different rights and operating protocols from timeshare owners.

 

[eileenfk]

Even though I have no plans to rent points, or to sell my membership, I consider my pending DVC purchase an investment, that has risks.

Stuff could happen that would cause the fees I pay each year to be more then value of the property that can be rented with the points. I may never recover the value for the price I am paying.
I am taking a risk. But based on the history of the DVC (which I have been watching for almost 10 years) the value just keeps getting better and better. So I consider the risk low.

Some things I have thought of, as I have tried to evaluate the risk are:

Airfare can become so expensive that I (and many others) choose to vacation closer to home.

The DVC may build so many resorts and rooms that the CRO rate ends up lower then the cost of my points.

Disney could start having enough problems with the parks that fewer people want to visit.

A natural disaster could destroy the property. While the property is likely insured (Something I didn't even check in all the research I did before deciding to buy); I am sure there will be some cost associated with such a disaster.

The DVC could become like many other timeshares, and people may end up giving away their memberships, to eliminate paying the fees.

I much prefer to live in a fantasy world then think about reality anyway.

Eileen

 

[Chuck S]

Originally posted by eileenfk

A natural disaster could destroy the property. While the property is likely insured (Something I didn't even check in all the research I did before deciding to buy); I am sure there will be some cost associated with such a disaster.

To answer that particular question...yes the resorts are insured, that is one reason for dues increases of the last few years. Terrorism.

If a resort is destroyed by a natural disaster or whatever, you will not be able to use your points at another resort while your home resort is being rebuilt (no trade value). If it is too near the end of the contract (2042) that it is deemed more costly to rebuild than it is "worth" then any insurance settlement will be divided amongst the resort owners and our DVC membership will be null and void.

 

[BWVDee]

I have to say, I agree with many of the different points/opinions that were made in this thread.
I have also seen a decline in the the staffing at WDW which then snowballs into less guest service, etc. However this decline is most directly related to 9/11 and the huge decline in tourism that, though is ebbing somewhat, still very much exists.
I also feel that in the world of timeshares, at this time, DVC is about the safest bet you can have.
If Disney gets taken over by another company and DVC is sold off; who knows what is going to happen. But at this point in time, I am very comfortable with my DVC membership.
However I must also add that since the threat of a possible Disney take over I have been contacted twice by my DVC guide offering additional DVC pts at BWV for my use year...and I have declined. I was very tempted but still declined. I am very comfortable and secure with my DVC contract and all its accumulated points, and definitely feel that a DVC timeshare is presently one of the most secure timeshares you can buy. But I will not be purchasing any more additonal DVC pts until I see how this whole is going to play out.