? WWYD, need advise DS having trouble in school-Update, plz read

[pandora174]

Hi, I need a few suggestions since I'm very frustrated. Sorry if it's long. Brief overview. DS soon to be 8 years old was a preemie. He had no other medical or health issues but was diagnosed at 18 months with developmental delay. He received OT, ST, PT.

By Pre-K he was in a self contained classroom not due to behavior but b/c he needed one on one. I've gone through the whole IEP issues with the public school system. My therapists were not happy with the school setting he was in & recommended I move him to a private school. He was already going to be mainstreamed as the diagnosis of developmental delay was lifted & he only had a diagnosis of speech delay & his therapists were worried about the large class sizes & poor quality public schools in my area etc.

In FL he qualifies for the McKay scholarship. So in Kinder & 1rst grade I moved him to a small Christian private school. It wasn't an easy transition but by Kinder he had graduated PT & OT. By first grade he was down to ST 1x a week & being pulled 45 min a day by ESE.

Fast forward to this past summer, his school closed & his speech therapist tells me he is about to graduate ST DS is immature for his age but he is progressing in that area & he can be impulsive. So I moved him to a Catholic school & he was tested & was at grade level for 2nd grade, compeltely mainstreamed.

School started in Aug I've had 2 teacher conferences since then in which she advises while DS is not disruptive he has social issues with other children, he whispers too loudly, he is immature, he rushes his work, basically he doesn't work well with others, he is very smart but his work can be inconsistent b/c he rushes, in her words "she doesn't know what to do with him". Academically he is on the mark, if he slowed down he could be A-B honor roll. I never had these issues in his last school. But this is a big transition as the class size went from 9 kids to 20 & there are more boys than girls. The teacher kept asking if he has any medical diagnosis & I advised "no", do you see something I don't & she adv "no, he doesn't have any signs of ADD etc".

I spoke with his pediatrician who advised medically he is fine, he is immature & give him time. He suggested some additional holistic vitamins. For the last 2 years I had him on Brightspark & to put him in sports. He's been doing soccer & for the last 2 months I've put him in Tae Kwon Do.

I just don't know what else to do !! I talk to DS constantly, I've taken privileges away. I know he can rush through his work & it can be sloppy. We're working on that. But socially we never had issues. He tells me he is the only new kid & he always is the one that gets told on but then he tells me that everyone gets in trouble. He is 7 & I do know that he can be difficult. He is very worried about going back to ESE. In this school it's not pull out but 100 % self contained which he doesn't need & may actually delay him if I moved him.

Any suggestions ? Any ideas ? I am really at my wits ends.

 

[copperhound]

This is just my 2 cents. My son is also immature for age and very impulsive, but very bright academically. He also has some issues which your son doesn't have, which are aggressive behavior and screaming. He has been tested by many therapists, but has no diagnosis other than articulation difficulties and sensory integration disorder. We also live in Florida.

I tried the private school route with my son and watched a friend whose son has similar "issues" try it repeatedly (changing schools every year).

I'm going to say something potentially inflamatory here, so I'll say in advance that I don't intend to step on toes -- this is simply my observation from my limited experience. I learned that private schools in our area (unless they are specifically geared toward children with learning disabilities) are simply not equipped and / or have no desire to deal with children who don't fit the "cookie-cutter" mold of compliant, subdued, easy-to-teach children. At the end of the day, these schools are run like businesses, and they don't want the increased costs of dealing with students who don't fit the mold.

My son was taking some serious self-esteem hits in the private school setting, there were no specialists on staff who could provide support for his behaviors, the teacher was young and inexperienced and had never heard of sensory integration disorder. Every time she would see us coming, she'd get a 'deer in the headlights' look.

I had to shop around for a good public school for my son, but he has been in this school from K-2 and I really, really believe it was the right choice. The resources he needs are there for him (he is now on consult for speech and 60 min / week OT), the teachers are for the most part supportive and experienced, and (most importantly) the principal is excellent and really cares about the students. I chose an International Baccalaureate elementary -- 100% choice, and it is a small school (around 500 students).

I really believe public schools are the answer for our exceptional children -- I was terrified of the FL public schools at first, but now I'm really happy that I took a chance. After watching my friend struggle for 4 years to find a private school placement that will do the right things for her son, I think I took the right path.

Edited to mention: I notice you say his class size is now 20 students. I'm sure you know this, but as required by the Constitution of Florida, maximum number of students in a 2nd grade public classroom is now 18 students. Not all public schools are in compliance, but I find it strange that private schools would exceed the public standard. The private school my son attended for pre-k matched the public standard for class size, and I always wondered, "then why am I paying you $10K / year"????

Good luck!

 

[pandora174]

This is just my 2 cents. My son is also immature for age and very impulsive, but very bright academically. He also has some issues which your son doesn't have, which are aggressive behavior and screaming. He has been tested by many therapists, but has no diagnosis other than articulation difficulties and sensory integration disorder. We also live in Florida.

I tried the private school route with my son and watched a friend whose son has similar "issues" try it repeatedly (changing schools every year).

I'm going to say something potentially inflamatory here, so I'll say in advance that I don't intend to step on toes -- this is simply my observation from my limited experience. I learned that private schools in our area (unless they are specifically geared toward children with learning disabilities) are simply not equipped and / or have no desire to deal with children who don't fit the "cookie-cutter" mold of compliant, subdued, easy-to-teach children. At the end of the day, these schools are run like businesses, and they don't want the increased costs of dealing with students who don't fit the mold.

My son was taking some serious self-esteem hits in the private school setting, there were no specialists on staff who could provide support for his behaviors, the teacher was young and inexperienced and had never heard of sensory integration disorder. Every time she would see us coming, she'd get a 'deer in the headlights' look.

I had to shop around for a good public school for my son, but he has been in this school from K-2 and I really, really believe it was the right choice. The resources he needs are there for him (he is now on consult for speech and 60 min / week OT), the teachers are for the most part supportive and experienced, and (most importantly) the principal is excellent and really cares about the students. I chose an International Baccalaureate elementary -- 100% choice, and it is a small school (around 500 students).

I really believe public schools are the answer for our exceptional children -- I was terrified of the FL public schools at first, but now I'm really happy that I took a chance. After watching my friend struggle for 4 years to find a private school placement that will do the right things for her son, I think I took the right path.

Edited to mention: I notice you say his class size is now 20 students. I'm sure you know this, but as required by the Constitution of Florida, maximum number of students in a 2nd grade public classroom is now 18 students. Not all public schools are in compliance, but I find it strange that private schools would exceed the public standard. The private school my son attended for pre-k matched the public standard for class size, and I always wondered, "then why am I paying you $10K / year"????

Good luck!

Thanks I appreciate your input. I am just totally frustrated. We tried public school for 2 years & 2 different schools & it was bad. Maybe it's the area I'm in but academically he wasn't learning. There were so many kids with issues worse than his that the teacher told me he was getting lost in the shuffle I had to hire a private tutor to get him ready for Kinder for 6 months after I pulled him from public school.

When I did put him in the small private school setting, Kinder was hard but he flourished in First grade & made A-B honor roll but unfortunately his school closed due to the economy.

This school was highly recommended to me by several people & they supposedly know how to deal with kids with mild issues (which is what my DS falls under). The school has been open for 50 years. DH is more frustrated than me but wants him to just finish the year & hope for a differnet mix of kids next year. They have 2 classrooms for each grade. DS also still says he loves his new school but I agree I get the impression this teacher wants "cookie-cutter" children & I've spoken to some parents & was told she is the toughest of the elementary teachers but also very experienced. In the mean time I am so stressed for DS & myself. I dread every bi-weekly progress folder or yet another conference. My friends who also have kids tell me all parochial Catholic schools are like this, they ahve kids with either speech or ADD. DS is adamant he does not want to change schools. yesterday I was in tears & today I am close to it as well.

 

[chipscamping buddy]

We went through something similar with my daughter. She had a great preschool and then we did a lot of research and moved her into a private school that did great for her and she was past most of her developmental issues by 1st grade. Due to job changes we had to move her for second grade and we started her in a catholic school. Her first year was a strain. She always felt like the outsider and only developed a strong relationship with one other girl. The next year, her one friend moved away, and she really felt like an outsider. However, it was mostly in her head at that point. The second year at a school seems to help them be part of the group. Somebody else is usually the new kid and the relationships develop. We are now in the fifth grade and she is always on honor role, is a cheerleader and has not complained once this year about being left out.

So, it can really be tough when the kids are feeling like outsiders, but it does get better. If the school is handling the education, the relationships can develop. That your son wants to stay should tell you that it isn't as bad as you think. Often we get to hear the venting of all the bad things and only later come to find that maybe there were some good things too.

 

[copperhound]

Hey, I have been there. Try to hang in there. I've reached a point where I decided that the stress is not worth it. I still impose consequences and try to do so in a consistent manner, but I don't let it take the emotional toll on me that it used to. Also, it's definitely not good to let our young kids be under so much stress. It is what it is, and 20 years from now, it most likely won't really matter.

My son must have known I was writing about him, b/c the principal called me about an hour ago. My son kicked someone and has to spend the rest of the day in the office. He had been having a great week, too.

Remember. . . one day at a time. It could be a personality conflict with the teacher, and he might do better next year. My son needs a ton of structure in the classroom, but a teacher who is more flexible than rigid in how they deal with people -- not easy to find.

 

[bookwormde]

It is time to do a good developmental scan and evaluation especially in EF, sensory and soocial areas since all of these or some combination can manefest as you describe. A lot of kids self adapt, but do much better if properly supported for their differences.

bookwormde

 

[kirstenb1]

Our younger dd is 5 and has mild autism. We do private PT and OT, because the school doesn't close the gap very well with social issues etc (they are great with academics).

At dd's OT practice, they have various social skills classes with same-age peers. Once dd's sensory issues are under better control, I will absolutely enroll her in those. They aren't cheap, but if they work will be worth every penny.

Would your son benefit from social skills' coaching?

 

[pandora174]

Just received feedback from the teacher today. Her e-mail states that she was hoping by this time of the year he would already be settled in & understand the expectations and the quality of work she needs from him. She gave an example that as they were practicing spelling on small white boards my DS wrote a message to another student telling him "I hate you".

As far as she could tell it was unprovoked and this impulsive behavior concerns her so after the holidays she will refer him to the school psychologist so she can observe him.

In his last school I never had these issues with DS

 

[pandora174]

Just received feedback from the teacher today. Her e-mail states that she was hoping by this time of the year he would already be settled in & understand the expectations and the quality of work she needs from him. She gave an example that as they were practicing spelling on small white boards my DS wrote a message to another student telling him "I hate you".

As far as she could tell it was unprovoked and this impulsive behavior concerns her so after the holidays she will refer him to the school psychologist so she can observe him.

In his last school I never had these issues with DS

OK here is another UPDATE. I picked DS from Tae Kwon Do at school & was speaking to another mom about what is going on. She said she had almost exactly the same with her son who had ST & OT issues with this teacher. She advised me to get my own physchological exam, have his ST write a report asap, meet before with the school physcologist to find out exactly what the review will entail & then request a copy & provide a copy for his school file with my private dr's findings.

Feeling really overwhelmed here. A part of me knows I will do this but from this mom she was fighting to keep her child from the "Academy" their name for special ed - all inclusive. I want to make sure they come to the correct decision on what's best for DS's needs & "if" that means the Academy is the best place for him and will lead to a more less stressful, will contribute to a better education & his overall developement, then let it be but a part of me thinks then I'm quitting on DS because he was mainstream so to "him" I know he'll think it's a huge disappointment since he was so proud he graduated to "mainstream"

 

[bookwormde]

One thing to remember is that federal IDEA laws and regulations require the the school make every effort to maintain your child in the least restrictive enviroment possible Standard classroom being the first option, an inclusion class,paraprofessinal for yor chld in the classroom, then pull out support in the school and so forth with a dedicated program being far down the list. It sounds like it is time to ask for a formal IDEA evaluation in writing.

For the clinical side, try to find a good developmental pediatric neurologist.

bookwormde

 

[Brightsy]

There's another possibility...maybe your DS is gifted. A lot of gifted kids also have LDs or are even on the Spectrum or show signs of other developmental delays. He could be rushing and so on because the work is simply not challening to him and he's bored. A lot of his behavior could be explained by something like that.
By all means, get gim evaluated... in addition see if you can get him tested to see if he is gifted.

 

[bookwormde]

Yes part of any quality evaluation is an evaluation for giftedness.

bookwormde

 

[pandora174]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I spoke today with DS's ST & outlined what's been going on. What she did not like is that some of the statements about DS's conduct were said in front him. Mainly when she brought out DS to my husband the teacher said that she didn't know what to do with him & the next step would be the Principal's office. My therapist said that these types of statements are very harmful to any child's self esteem.

So she recommeneded a behavior therapist for DS. She needs to check with her boss & if my insurance will cover it though.

Then she suggested that I inform the school of this as well, so it's not just going by what their specialists say. Also she recommended that I meet with the school psychologist before & get a clear outline of what is the exact purpose of the observation and what are the goals. Once I have the report, then meet again so we can all together including his teacher and come up with an action plan for DS. In her opinion in needs to be in the least inclusive environment and she is willing to complete a report if I need it.

 

[copperhound]

Big hugs... this sounds a little overboard to me. From how you describe your son, it sounds like this teacher is a little tightly wound. If I were you, I would speak with the principal about your concerns. It might be better to set up a meeting with the teacher and the principal together - to avoid stepping on the teacher's toes and escalating the situation. That way, you can get a better bead on whether the teacher is the issue, or if you're going to struggle with this school all the way through.

The things you describe are similar to the "self-esteem hits" I referred to in my earlier posts about my son's experience in private school. I felt like the teachers just were not trained and did not care to deal with students who varied from "the norm", and often did things that were inappropriate.

Has she given you any suggestions or spoken about alternative strategies to address the issues within the classroom -- such as a positive reinforcement program?

 

[jlcw14]

One thing to remember is that federal IDEA laws and regulations require the the school make every effort to maintain your child in the least restrictive enviroment possible Standard classroom being the first option, an inclusion class,paraprofessinal for yor chld in the classroom, then pull out support in the school and so forth with a dedicated program being far down the list. It sounds like it is time to ask for a formal IDEA evaluation in writing.

For the clinical side, try to find a good developmental pediatric neurologist.

bookwormde

This is exactly what I was saying in my head when I was reading through this post, lol!

I'm so sorry pandora; like most parents here, I know the exasperation of dealing with the education system. My kids both have autism, and my daughter is able to do academic work but also had some challenging behaviors. My school's decision? Put her in an ED classroom. She spent most of her time in the time out room, because she didn't want to do the work (dropped to the floor whenever any was put in front of her), the teacher/aide didn't want to deal with her, they violated her rights under FERPA by divulging to a social worker who was in the room for another student her diagnosis, her meds, and her behaviors. Meanwhile, I was a student in psychology and my advisor, a very esteemed behavioral psychologist and all-around great guy, helped me to begin ABA at home, and her behaviors at home were better than ever. It was very clear where the problem was. We ended up pulling her out of school a month early because it wasn't doing her or anyone else any good, only harm. I received at least 4 phone calls a week that entire year. It was ridiculous; they didn't know how to help her learn, it was painfully obvious they didn't want her there, and everyone from my advisor to my CSE and MSC agreed that I should save my DD the agony and pull her out. Thankfully that summer she became one of the first students in an ABA classroom in our area and has completely bloomed since. Her brother joined her in the next year and is also growing academically. The program has expanded into 3 more districts. I am so happy that parents of ASD kids in the area don't have to go through what we did. I'm currently in grad school and working on the fieldwork I need to become a board certified behavior analyst. I'm hoping I can join in on the fun in one of the other districts!!

I have to say, it unfortunately sounds to me as though the teacher doesn't want to put in the time. Has she attempted anything with him on her end, like a behavior contract?

The one thing I remember from my first days in behavior modification class is my professor stating - "if you don't want your kids to have a diagnosis, send them to catholic school." (I want to point out that he said "catholic" only because this area is predominantly catholic, and therefore all of our private schools here are parochial. He wasn't picking on Catholics, lol). The reason he said this is because these schools are so poor, they don't have the means to do psychometric testing, and especially don't want to have to pay clinicians to perform regular services. They'll do whatever they can to keep an IEP "cheap", if they have to have one at all. Add to this the fact that the teachers in these schools are paid so low (up here they start at about $15,000 annually in private schools compared to about $32,000 in public setting), they don't want to deal with any student outside of cookie-cutter perfect. Maybe its different where you live; I'm way up on the Canadian border in NY, but this does ring true here.

You do have the right, as bookworkde states, under IDEA to have the least restrictive setting for your child. In no way should there be only a choice between full inclusion or full containment. IEP is an individualized educational plan, and your DS has the right to an education that is individualized for his needs.

And another thing you may want to consider - in the public schools, it is not uncommon to have a behavior analyst on staff these days. You wouldn't have to worry about what your insurance pays for. Actually, if the private school wants him to receive those services, I believe they also have to provide it.

As a part of the evaluation process, I would verbalize that you would like it to include a functional behavior assessment. This just means observing his behaviors and trying to discern exactly what it is that causes them, so that an appropriate behavior plan may be developed to help him.

Good luck, and continue to be his best advocate. He sounds like a very bright young fella!!

 

[sturdypeasantstock]

Really? Our experience was entirely the opposite. The teacher and principal we dealt with in the public school only wanted "cookie cutter" children. In the Catholic school they were much more tolerant and understanding of DS needs. And no, the school is not "poor", and they had a waiting list.

Contrary to what some of the on these boards seem to believe, not all Catholics are poor! (And there's nothing wrong with being poor, we are working class.) There are many Catholic doctors, attorneys, etc. Some of you still seem to be living back in the days of the no-nothings and "no Catholics need apply".

I am highly offended by your remarks against the Catholic school system. We are here to help our children, not make prejudiced remarks against other people's religions and backgrounds.

I'm sure if you made comments about other ethnic and religious groups, you'd be taken to task


I came to this board trying to help others and to get advice - not to read more anti-Catholic remarks!

I know people who attended Catholic schools in the region where you live, and they thrived. If you and these anti-Catholic school "experts" dislike Catholics so much, why don't you just move???

 

[jlcw14]

First of all: I'm a Catholic.

Secondly: I did not in any way suggest that Catholics in general are poor. That would be completely off base as it is one of the most powerful organized religions in the world.

I was careful to state that the professor in question was NOT picking on Catholics; it was more of a statement on private schools in our area. It just so happens that every private school in my area IS Catholic. AND they will be the first to tell you that they don't have a whole lot of money/ funding.

So, I can only assume that you did not fully read the post, read it well, or just got so flamed out because you feel I'm dissing your own educational situation. If that's the case, I'm very glad you have had good luck.

I also stated that it may not be the case in all areas, but it seems to be that way up here.

Maybe read it through again.

 

[brat]

Question? How does your DS feel about this teacher?Just wondering if his white board was about a disliked teacher instead of a classmate.
Have you consitered that your DS might just find this teacher annoying?Since she does not understand him and his needs, he may not understand her well enough to get what she wants of him. His rushing to finish might be just to get her to be quite.He has more noise around him in a larger class size.
I bring this up because I was the LD kid that only someof my teachers understood.Those who did not I did not do well in their classes.Please start with asking your DS his side, then think about other posters ideas about getting an eval of your own.Good luck