WWOHP effect on WDW

[tjkraz]

Fantasyland is so yawn inducing though. Sure it will look pretty, but this "whole land" is only one new ride, one existing ride cloned and moved, and lots of shops and restaurants....

....why is that any better than what WWOHP?

I don't see it as being "better", but it has the potential to be WWoHP's equal. All WWoHP really added to the park was one new ride, two rethemed rides and lots of shops and restaurants. Same difference.

I will say that WWoHP probably has a better unifying theme. Fantasyland is geared around princesses, but I'm not sure if its collection of cottages and castles will come together in the same cohesive manner. Time will tell.

A better comparison will be Carsland at DCA. From what I have seen, designers did an excellent job of leveraging the subject matter there. All of the key locations from the film will be leveraged and make for a truly immersive experience.

 

[poeticdiabetic]

However, the extended stories relating to SW are, for the most part, little more than pulp/dime novels, exhibiting some creative elements, but they are not on the same level as series such as those created by Tolkien/Lewis/Rowling.

There are technical manuals, reference books children's books, adult novels, comic books, cookbooks, dictionaries, etc. They aren't Tolkien/Lewis/Rowling books because they are written by a myriad of authors, but the stories are there and canonized into the timeline of galactic history. ( And in order to be canonized, it has to be endorsed by Lucasfilm. The Clone Wars projects, for instance, aren't canonized.)

Star Wars even have their own wikipedia portal called "Wookiepedia." And their own religion. (3 of them to be exact- Jediism, Jedi Realism and the International church of Jediism. Crazy, I know)

There aren't many creative elements in the Legacy of the Force series? Or the Lost Tribe of the Sith?

My sons have never watched an episode nor read a word of Harry Potter, but they have read all of the Narnia series. They have also watched the LOTR series, but they haven't read the books. But they wouldn't get lost on Tatooine, Geonosis, or Felucia. They want to vacation in Naboo. There are hundreds of planets and moons detailed in the Star Wars galaxy. That's not creative?

 

[ChrisFL]

Yes, I agree that CarsLand will be very nice, but it's still in DL.

If we're going to compare Disney parks outside of WDW, IMO DisneySea absolutely is better than IOA (and any other theme park for that matter), but it's in Tokyo and not Orlando.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Most of what I state is from memory of detailed discussions here on the DIS by former posters, a few who had actual insider knowledge and no longer post here. You can of course believe nothing I say, if you choose.

I'm sure Rowling started negotiations with Universal in 2004. According to an article I read on Jim Hill, Disney secured some meetings with Rowling's people as Eisner wanted HP greatly, but I don't believe Rowling herself was ever a part of these. According to Hill, Iger (when he took over) wasn't as insistent and soon after the deal with Universal was consumated. I personally don't remember Iger ever having this opportunity but still Jim Hill usually has some fact in what he says. But I recall that the deal was pretty much agreed upon between Universal and Rowling before Iger took over Disney.

Either way it seems Universal always had the inside track and Iger ruined whatever chance Disney may have had. This makes sense as Iger knows and cares less about creativity than Eisner did (which is scary).

I agree to disagree with you about creativity if you're saying that the steps Disney has taken creatively compare to what Universal has done going back to Spiderman. I'm not discounting things like 'Wonderful World of Color' - I really look forward to seeing it, but there is a difference between creating a water related show and duplicating a film/cinematic classic like HP in the scale that has been done and then there is the ride itself, of course!

Even when creating 'E:E', which I think is visually stunning, Disney still failed to break any ground with the attraction itself.

As to the imagineer comments, I think you misunderstand me. My point is that the very same folks that created much of Disney 'magic' over the years did go to work for Universal or sub-companies that worked for Universal. All of these guys weren't fired by Disney but they were all talented enough to have been at Disney at one point in time, which you must agree probably makes them pretty good. Remember at the end of Eisner's era and the beginning of smiling Bob's, Disney virtually eliminated Imagineering from existence.

It's my take and I have no documentation, I'm just reliving the past, so to speak. the sad thing it always seems like I like Universal better than Disney or that I really hate Disney in these discussions and that just isn't true. I probably enjoy the parks equally but I still adore and love the Classic Disney offerings and I agree that much of the new stuff is fun. But simply being fun is a pretty low bar, much lower than the standard that was in place when Pirates, Splash and all the way to ToT were created. JMO.

 

[skier_pete]

I don't think you dislike Disney...and I don't think your claim the Universal has a winner on its hands isn't true. I do think you are mistaken in claims that Disney never had a stake in the HP sweepstakes. I found this on Wikipedia, which leads to a number of links that remain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_Theme_Park

From my view, Rowling and Disney definitely talked, and for whatever reason (it may be years or decades before the truth is known, if ever) they didn't get it. Again, my suspicion is it was about money - how much they would have to pay for the rights. Disney's immense popularity really meant Universal NEEDED Harry more than Disney. Universal has really been struggling for the better part of this decade, with financial losses. Disney has not. Someone at Uni was smart enough to see this could be a game-changer (which I am not convinced it is), or at least enough to boost Unis profitability. Good move for them. I'm a real fan of HP as is my wife, but DD is only 7 and not ready for HP. When she's a little older (perhaps 10 or 11), I think we will head over there at least once.

 

[MaleficentandGoons]

However, the extended stories relating to SW are, for the most part, little more than pulp/dime novels, exhibiting some creative elements, but they are not on the same level as series such as those created by Tolkien/Lewis/Rowling.

 

[poeticdiabetic]

There are technical manuals, reference books children's books, adult novels, comic books, cookbooks, dictionaries, etc. They aren't Tolkien/Lewis/Rowling books because they are written by a myriad of authors, but the stories are there and canonized into the timeline of galactic history. ( And in order to be canonized, it has to be endorsed by Lucasfilm. The Clone Wars projects, for instance, aren't canonized.)

Star Wars even have their own wikipedia portal called "Wookiepedia." And their own religion. (3 of them to be exact- Jediism, Jedi Realism and the International church of Jediism. Crazy, I know)

There aren't many creative elements in the Legacy of the Force series? Or the Lost Tribe of the Sith?

My sons have never watched an episode nor read a word of Harry Potter, but they have read all of the Narnia series. They have also watched the LOTR series, but they haven't read the books. But they wouldn't get lost on Tatooine, Geonosis, or Felucia. They want to vacation in Naboo. There are hundreds of planets and moons detailed in the Star Wars galaxy. That's not creative?

 

[plutotek]

There are technical manuals, reference books children's books, adult novels, comic books, cookbooks, dictionaries, etc. They aren't Tolkien/Lewis/Rowling books because they are written by a myriad of authors, but the stories are there and canonized into the timeline of galactic history. ( And in order to be canonized, it has to be endorsed by Lucasfilm. The Clone Wars projects, for instance, aren't canonized.)

Star Wars even have their own wikipedia portal called "Wookiepedia." And their own religion. (3 of them to be exact- Jediism, Jedi Realism and the International church of Jediism. Crazy, I know)

There aren't many creative elements in the Legacy of the Force series? Or the Lost Tribe of the Sith?

My sons have never watched an episode nor read a word of Harry Potter, but they have read all of the Narnia series. They have also watched the LOTR series, but they haven't read the books. But they wouldn't get lost on Tatooine, Geonosis, or Felucia. They want to vacation in Naboo. There are hundreds of planets and moons detailed in the Star Wars galaxy. That's not creative?

There are technical manuals, reference books children's books, adult novels, comic books, cookbooks, dictionaries, etc. They aren't Tolkien/Lewis/Rowling books because they are written by a myriad of authors, but the stories are there and canonized into the timeline of galactic history. ( And in order to be canonized, it has to be endorsed by Lucasfilm. The Clone Wars projects, for instance, aren't canonized.)

Star Wars even have their own wikipedia portal called "Wookiepedia." And their own religion. (3 of them to be exact- Jediism, Jedi Realism and the International church of Jediism. Crazy, I know)

There aren't many creative elements in the Legacy of the Force series? Or the Lost Tribe of the Sith?

My sons have never watched an episode nor read a word of Harry Potter, but they have read all of the Narnia series. They have also watched the LOTR series, but they haven't read the books. But they wouldn't get lost on Tatooine, Geonosis, or Felucia. They want to vacation in Naboo. There are hundreds of planets and moons detailed in the Star Wars galaxy. That's not creative?

Not sure what your point is (repeated an earlier posting)???

 

[poeticdiabetic]

Not sure what your point is (repeated an earlier posting)???

I'm pretty sure you do not, so let me explain even further...

What would be more creative, creating a detailed world or detailed universe? Also, have you ever read any of the adult novels? If you had, you would realize that it's more than 'dime novels.'

They may not be better works of art than the works of Tolkien, Lewis or Rowling. Star Wars is a collective work so some will be good and some will be bad. But you don't become the greatest, most influential and richest franchise is history by putting out merely "some creative elements." You do so by constantly creating and building.

 

[skier_pete]

Look, not to get in between two sides on the SW vs HP debate. (SW novels date back to the original movies, and I have several of the "original novels" sitting on a shelf - including the Han Solo trilogy and Splinter of a mind's eye, which were published early-eighties.)

But, I think point is being made here in the conversation. SW has a very large and varied universe, and all really WDW has done with it is one ride. This sort of proves to me that Disney is not interested in expanding on projects that they don't 100% own. At the time that Disney licensed SW / Indy in the '80s, they didn't have the live-action based franchises they do now. They are not going to spend a boat-load of capital (Big business HATES capital spending.) on new rides/attractions unless they are getting 100% of the cut. Yes, there's SWW - which are really just a bunch of people in costumes, so very little capital outgo there.

This is why Disney ceded HP to Universal without much of a fight (you can bet that % cut was a sticking point) and why a major SW expansion will never occur.

 

[plutotek]

I'm pretty sure you do not, so let me explain even further...

What would be more creative, creating a detailed world or detailed universe? Also, have you ever read any of the adult novels? If you had, you would realize that it's more than 'dime novels.'

They may not be better works of art than the works of Tolkien, Lewis or Rowling. Star Wars is a collective work so some will be good and some will be bad. But you don't become the greatest, most influential and richest franchise is history by putting out merely "some creative elements." You do so by constantly creating and building.

No need to get snarky. I was simply asking why you were repeating your same post twice.

And yes, I have read some of the adult books, comic books, graphic novels, including the originals. However, I won't debate your opinion that it is the 'greatest, most influential and richest franchise in history' because that's what it is..your opinion, and you're welcome to it.

 

[poeticdiabetic]

Look, not to get in between two sides on the SW vs HP debate. (SW novels date back to the original movies, and I have several of the "original novels" sitting on a shelf - including the Han Solo trilogy and Splinter of a mind's eye, which were published early-eighties.)

But, I think point is being made here in the conversation. SW has a very large and varied universe, and all really WDW has done with it is one ride. This sort of proves to me that Disney is not interested in expanding on projects that they don't 100% own. At the time that Disney licensed SW / Indy in the '80s, they didn't have the live-action based franchises they do now. They are not going to spend a boat-load of capital (Big business HATES capital spending.) on new rides/attractions unless they are getting 100% of the cut. Yes, there's SWW - which are really just a bunch of people in costumes, so very little capital outgo there.

This is why Disney ceded HP to Universal without much of a fight (you can bet that % cut was a sticking point) and why a major SW expansion will never occur.

I agree. I do not believe that Disney will ever expand a franchised project the way US/IOA did. (Well, maybe like US/IOA did because it's only about 3 rides and some shops. But not like if WWHOP is expanded, which may be in the future.) I believe that Disney will keep generalized thematics, even with the franchises that they own.

 

[poeticdiabetic]

No need to get snarky. I was simply asking why you were repeating your same post twice.

And yes, I have read some of the adult books, comic books, graphic novels, including the originals. However, I won't debate your opinion that it is the 'greatest, most influential and richest franchise in history' because that's what it is..your opinion, and you're welcome to it.

Not trying to be snarky, just trying to answer your question in a manner where you can understand it.

And I agree with you, "Greatest, Most Influential and Richest Franchise in history" is my opinion. It's based upon research from Forbes, the Financial Times and other publications.

 

[plutotek]

Not trying to be snarky, just trying to answer your question in a manner where you can understand it.

And I agree with you, "Greatest, Most Influential and Richest Franchise in history" is my opinion. It's based upon research from Forbes, the Financial Times and other publications.

I actually understood your comment the first time you posted it. Any further debate is not going to change anything; you're big fan of SW, me not so much.

 

[ChrisFL]

Seriously, bring SW's books up is not saying anything...probably only about 5% of the general public have ever picked one up.

 

[CanadianGuy]

The WWOHP ... heard a LOT of comments on it from folks who have visited.. (mind you mainly in June)

The comments can be boiled down to "Yeah it's cool.. but there wasn't much 'there' there.. "

And having gone over exactly what the area offers ... I was disappointed myself. I expected more ... (probably due to USO's marketing efforts)..

Several reviews I read said the same thing -- cool but limited currently unless it expands.

Only time will be the true test of it's popularity .. which I expect to be huge for a while yet for sure.

 

[skiingfast]

Seriously, bring SW's books up is not saying anything...probably only about 5% of the general public have ever picked one up.

Probably because with SW the movie came first.

FWIW I knew of the starwars books long ago but have never read any HP book. My son a generation behind me is aware of SW but not HP. This is because SW movies were released 30 years apart. HP has shoved out all it's book and movies thus collecting a smaller audience over time.