WWOHP effect on WDW

[Peter Pirate 2]

My daughter and I just visited WWOHP today. I had preconceived ideas about the addition and the affect it would have on WDW but after visiting my opinions have changed somewhat.

I was one who thought WWOHP would have a large affect this summer then taper off but continue fairly strong for a couple of years. I now feel WWOHP will be huge for many years to come.

The theming of the area is totally Disneyesque and of the highest quality. There is no doubt in my mind that the best and brightest of former Disney imagineers had much to do with this area. Disney has never added any area in the US parks to be talked about in the same sentence with this addition.

The main ride, Forbidden journey, is unparalleled. It's seems to be a next gen Spiderman, which Disney never equalled. I love Spidey and Disney's Indy at DL has long been my favorite ride but this is heads and shoulders above them both.

The main area of Hogsmeade is exactly what you would imagine it to be based on the books and movies. But even if you've never seen the movies or read the books it would be inconceivable that you wouldn't be blown away by the craftsmanship itself.

IOA was always themed magnificently and under appreciated by Disney fanatics because of the lack of 'magic' but the addition of WWOHP has that magic that millions upon millions around the world will identify with and appreciate for years to come.

The WWOHP will not take down the behemoth that is Disney and to be sure Disney will respond at some point. But IMO the WWOHP will keep Universal relevant for all of the near future.

 

[anthony2k7]

This is undoubtedly why Disney has now decided to continue with their discounting (free dining) after only recently saying the discounts would be ending.

For me I have no doubt WWHOP is going to hit WDW results for a number of years. Universal have taken the line of small cutbacks whilst continuing heavy investment over the last couple of years whilst Disney have relied on heavy cutbacks and little investment. Now Universal have great new attractions, restaurants that are busy, but people can still get in on the day without 180 day reservations - and they're PAYING to eat there (not free dining!). Then there is merchandising... Universal still has a good level of unique merchandising throughout the parks - its not all the same in every shop. Oh, and at the end of the day you can then go to one of their clubs on city walk if you want....

Disney has Fantasyland coming, which will keep the little kids and slightly older girls happy, and star tours II sometime in the next 5 years maybe. What else? not a lot, and nothing in Epcot, AK or either of the water warks is there? Plus they're stuck in this discounting situation. Poor merchandise selection. Restaurants that are full of people not paying and DTD looking more run down by the day.

 

[anthony2k7]

Plus of course, lego land is coming soon as well!

 

[Figment632]

WDW will not be effected at all if anything it brings more people to the area.

 

[poeticdiabetic]

WDW will not be effected at all if anything it brings more people to the area.

I just had this conversation with a couple of marketing guys during some downtime. We determined that WWHOP is probably one of the best things to ever happen for WDW. The reason why we think so is because of the habit of the vacationer, and someone at Disney thought it through.

See normally, people would think (and want) for US/IOA and WDW to have an attraction war. They think that since US/IOA came up with WWHOP, WDW should come up with something that is bigger and better than WWHOP. IF WWHOP recreates Hogsmeade, WDW should recreate Narnia, for instance.

But Disney knows this: Their vacationer will either stay at Disney or go to Disney AND US/IOA. And most of them see WWHOP as an excuse to come to Orlando for vacation. What Disney want them to do is to go to both parks. How do they do that? By extending Free Dining.

Background- people spend between 2-3 days at US/IOA. Many people spend only one day there. The average WDW vacationer spend 4 days or more. Disney wants their vacationers to sleep, eat and play at Disney. By extending Free Dining, you ensure that they do so. WHy? Because in order to take advantage of Free Dining, you must get a room at WDW, buy theme park tickets at WDW and EAT at WDW.

Therefore, if you want to go to WWHOP, you will spend a day or so at US/IOA, but you gotta come back.

 

[tjkraz]

This is undoubtedly why Disney has now decided to continue with their discounting (free dining) after only recently saying the discounts would be ending.

Disney only said that they were going to begin scaling-back on the discounts. Even with "free dining" being extended, the discounts are still reduced over the prior year. There are more blackout dates in 2010 and room rates are higher than in the past.

That said, I certainly have my doubts as to whether any of this is a reaction to Harry Potter. As others have pointed out, US/IOA is not much of a multi-day resort destination (unless you spend half of your day waiting in line for WWHP.) While US attendance will certainly see a boost from the new attraction, it's likely that Disney will benefit as well.

For me I have no doubt WWHOP is going to hit WDW results for a number of years. Universal have taken the line of small cutbacks whilst continuing heavy investment over the last couple of years whilst Disney have relied on heavy cutbacks and little investment. Now Universal have great new attractions, restaurants that are busy, but people can still get in on the day without 180 day reservations - and they're PAYING to eat there (not free dining!).

It's a pendulum that swings both ways. Several years ago Disney invested heavily in Soarin, Everest, LMA and Stitch (ugh) all within a year's time. US has opened Harry Potter but now what do they have coming within the next couple of years?

Star Tours 2 will be open next year and the Fantasyland makeover will add numerous attractions over the next 3 years.

Disney has added many attractions--big and small--over the last 3-4 years: Toy Story Mania, American Idol, Monster Inc Laugh Floor, Kim Possible, Sum of all Thrills, Nemo ride and stage show, Captain EO, etc. Granted none of them are on the scale of WWHP, but then again we aren't going to see Universal invest in another WWHP anytime soon, either.

Disney has also invested a lot of money in renovating old classics. A lot of dollars went into the likes of Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Hall of Presidents, Small World and Space Mountain in recent years. When it comes to such iconic attractions, those investments are just as important as developing new experiences. Somebody wake me when the likes of ET, Beetlejuice's Graveyard Review, Twister and T2 become relevant again.

As for "free dining", it is only offered during a fraction of the year--about 11 weeks. Something tells me that Disney still turns a nice profit from their mediocre restaurants during the other 41 weeks.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Well--I'm one who saw the only first movie and was able to get through only about 1/3 of the first book.
So for me Potterworld isn't Hogwart or Hogsmeade--it's more like Hogwash!!

That said, it's obviously a merchandising gold mine for Universal as the Potter fanatics seem to be buying up anything that isn't nailed down. Long term it is no real threat to Disney and for Universal it's a welcome shot in the arm.

Pirate: Did you enjoy your Butterbeer???

 

[tjkraz]

I was one who thought WWOHP would have a large affect this summer then taper off but continue fairly strong for a couple of years. I now feel WWOHP will be huge for many years to come.

My own sense is that it depends entirely upon what Rowling does with the Potter universe.

I'm old enough to remember (as I'm sure you are, too) what it was like in the late-80s post-Star Wars. After Return of the Jedi (1983), the franchise largely went into hibernation. Kenner even stopped making toys in the late 80s due to lack of demand. Sure we had 3 beloved films and a few minor tie-ins, but the franchise was completely irrelevant without new content.

Potter has two high-profile film releases left and then....

Kids will still watch the movies and read the books for years to come, but that trickle of a fanbase won't sustain the franchise's popularity.

Universal's Spider-Man was WWHP before WWHP. The ride was met with just as much acclaim as Forbidden Journey in its day, and yet it didn't have a lasting impact on park attendance.

WWHP has been open for about 3 weeks now and fans have seen it coming for years. Summer trips were planned long ago and there is certainly some added traffic following the positive buzz (locals, people in the area for other vacations, people coming over from WDW, etc.) The crowds really aren't all that surprising.

I'll be more curious to see what happens as the seasons change and when the travel industry is hit with another slowdown. WWHP is certainly a curiosity now but how much of the current business can be sustained once people's attentions have been drawn elsewhere?

Question for you (and anyone else who has visited WWHP): As impressed as you were with WWHP, was it enough to convince you to add to your US/IOA visits in the future? Are US/IOA now parks you will visit every year? Every time you're in town for WDW? Or is it still just an occasional detour?

My thinking is still more along the lines of your initial projection--big crowds this summer and perhaps next year too. But then things will settle down considerably.

As for Disney's response, I think it depends entirely upon whether they feel any wounded pride. Imagineering is certainly capable of equaling everything done at WWHP. The problem is that they don't see a financial justification for doing so. Eisner would have had a cow and dropped $500 million into a park expansion before the first WWHP stories hit the wire. Today's execs are much more bottom-line oriented. The $1 billion they are currently investing in DCA doesn't help.

Unless Disney's attendance takes a hit, I fear they may be content with the current pattern of hitting singles and doubles rather than swinging for a home run.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

tj, I'm not one to answer that question as we're AP holders at both but I can tell you that my 17 year old daughter, A kid who grew up with everything Disney was completely, off the charts blown away by this experience and I know our next few free park days (probably until Food and Wine) will be at IOA and not Disney.

Further, it seems Rowling is already working on a related series of books dealing with Dumbledore, so if that's true the end is nowhere in sight.

Uncle, the lines for butterbeer was probably 100 people long. Same to get into the stores! Surprisingly we got onto FJ in 50 minutes and honestly at least 20 minutes of that time on the inside qeue was actually too quick. There is so much to admire. Also the wait for DD was about 25 min.

Certainly WDW isn't going to lose their shirts from this but it's a poke in the eye to those at Disney who hoped to keep guests on site their whole trip. That is now a pipe dream. And more worriesome I would think is that a certain percentage of guests who heretofore wouldn't visit USF will and will find they actually like it a lot (because it is two great parks).

Universal will never be an out and out threat to the well being of WDW. They can't, it's 4 parks vs. 2, etc., etc. But the quality of USF's work can longer be in doubt. This is now a world class park.

 

[Uncleromulus]

OK--I'll ask--what's a Dumbledore???

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

LOL!

He's the GREAT Wizard Headmaster of the Hogwarts school, of course!

 

[Uncleromulus]

Of course. How silly of me to have forgotten

Do they have any restaurants (real ones, not just carts or CS) at Potter?

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I believe so. The Three Broomsticks (I think) and I've heard it's reservation only at this point. Also, Mythos is right outside of HP and it's really good, but you already knew that.

 

[WebmasterCricket]

I'm assuming this is only a short term question because we all know Pollo Campero is going to steal any wayward fans right back again.

 

[hopemax]

Three Broomsticks is counter service, although it is reservation only for breakfast, and only for the people who have booked the HP package.

My parents and I made our first sojourn to Universal in June. I bought a 3 day ticket, and since my parents are FL residents they bought AP's because it was the same price for my Mom. My Dad got the Preferred to get the free parking, and with the day they visited and bought their tickets and my 3 day trip, their passes are paid for. Harry Potter was the impetus for the trip. I had heard good things about Universal before, but since my mom is a CM trips to WDW are free, and Universal costs money. But I am a big HP fan, and I was getting a bit bored with Disney.

After our trip, I would certainly at Universal to the itinerary in the future. Since I prefer free, I don't think it would be an every trip visit, unless I could get a good ticket deal.

We were very impressed with WWoHP, and even with the massive crowds the days we were there, the whole Universal experience was surprisingly satisfying. It was nice to not have to fight so many bodies. Lines for everything but HP were 5-20 min when we experienced them at IOA, 10-30 min the day we were at USF. It was nice to be able to walk into a table service restaurant (Finnegan's) and be seated immediately. Food was above average everywhere we ate, and the cost could be significantly cheaper than Disney at times. 3 of us ate lunch for about the same that it cost my Dad and I at Flame Tree. And our dinner at Finnegan's was half the price of our 1900 Park Fare visit, and that was with using a 50% CM dining coupon my Mom had saved (it was her birthday dinner). The shops were filled with themed merchandise, none of this princess in Frontierland, and Pirates in Tomorrowland, every shop carrying the same type of stuff. The TM's were friendly, and engaged in there roles. And it was nice for my Dad to show his AP and automatically get the discount he was entitled to, unlike when he shows the card that entitles him to CM discounts as a spouse of an employee, and gets told that it isn't good there, when he knows darn well it does.

You'll notice, I really haven't commented on the attractions. Sadly, to say, I think that the selection will prevent people from choosing Universal over Disney. Certainly, there are several high quality attractions at Universal. But we found the rides less repeatable than Disney. Water rides aren't very fun for us more than once per day, and the locker situation is a deterrent to re-riding the coasters. Plus, I think Disney has a better package of characters to work with. Mickey Mouse makes my heart get all twitterpated more than Shrek does. Even though, I am not fans of certain characters I did wonder why there was so little for SpongeBob, Madagascar, Dora, etc.

But the bottom line, we left with is that Disney is not heads and shoulders above the competition. I would even say Universal is more capable of delivering a high quality theme park than Disney. If I look at the most recent additions to Universal: WWoHP, Simpsons, Mummy these were by far more impressive to me than Expedition: Everest or Mission:Space. Disney gets the visitors primarily because of past reputation and not current situation.

 

[doconeill]

From what I've been hearing, they have already cut back on some of the ambient features they had opening week.

Lines are turning out to be manageable (there were some predictions that it could be disastrous wait times), but they designed the new headline ride in such a way that quite a few people will be unable to ride it. Don't bother trying if you are 6'3" or taller, or pooh-sized.

They obviously did a tremendous job in creating the environment, but they also continue to bill this as a "park" when it is three rides and facades...

 

[tjkraz]

IMHO, Disney's long term success has more to do with this....

Plus, I think Disney has a better package of characters to work with. Mickey Mouse makes my heart get all twitterpated more than Shrek does.

...than this...

Disney gets the visitors primarily because of past reputation and not current situation.

The vast majority of Universal's licensed properties feel more like flash-in-the-pan fads rather than anything with lasting appeal. Even something like Shrek which has had "legs" as a franchise was underwhelming at the box office. US does have some good properties like Dr Seuss, the Marvel characters and now HP. But the impact is diluted by the likes of Beetlejuice, Fear Factor and Twister. The Mummy is a great ride...but who cares about The Mummy??? (Whoever you are, you'll care even less in 10 years.)

Since many of these franchises are the result of licensing agreements rather than ownership, US is limited in how they can use the characters in their parks.

This is just a personal taste issue but I also find US' attractions to be too reliant on simulator technology. Nicktoons, Simpsons, Spider-Man, Forbidden Journey. My wife doesn't care for simulators and I couldn't even get her on Spider-Man after she was still reeling from the first two.

I also think the second quote above gives short shrift to all that WDW has to offer. Universal has undeniably created some nice attractions in recent years. Unless you're a thrill ride junkie, Disney still has a far better package to offer guests, while its attractions cater to a much wider audience.

It's certainly fair to applaud Rockit, The Simpsons and Forbidden Journey, but there are millions of theme park visitors who are not able (or willing) to experience those rides for a variety of physical/health-related reasons. The same cannot be said of Toy Story Mania, Monster's Inc, Finding Nemo: The Musical or Ariel's Undersea Adventures.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

From what I've been hearing, they have already cut back on some of the ambient features they had opening week.

Lines are turning out to be manageable (there were some predictions that it could be disastrous wait times), but they designed the new headline ride in such a way that quite a few people will be unable to ride it. Don't bother trying if you are 6'3" or taller, or pooh-sized.

They obviously did a tremendous job in creating the environment, but they also continue to bill this as a "park" when it is three rides and facades...

Well, I'm 6'3" & 240 and had no trouble at all riding it.

 

[doconeill]

Well, I'm 6'3" & 240 and had no trouble at all riding it.

6'3" is the limit I've been told, perhaps that's the upper limit.

Edit: I looked up, and the max advertised height is 80" (6'8"), so perhaps some of the taller people are also having problems with the harness latching...but it is a major complaint about the ride that the seats aren't accommodating a fair number of people.

There are already rumblings that Universal is planning some ride alterations already to fix that.

 

[mitros]

Oh Joy! Oh Rapture, Oh CRAPOLA! All this is going to do is bring even more bodies into the Orlando area, and therefore onto Disney property. We are so sick of Disney doing everything in their power to jam-pack the parks, resorts, and restaurants. And now they have another theme park in the area stuffing un- ending quantities of bodies into the region. This will NOT hurt Disney at all. Oh, for the good old days when visiting WDW was an enjoyable vacation as opposed to a huge , exhausting chore.