Woman says Atlantic City casino refuses to pay 7-figure jackpot - Think they'll get away with this?

[LuvOrlando]

I don’t know anything about casinos or slot machines. I have no idea who is authorized to open a machine or verify a win. I’m sure the employee knows better than random people on the internet & wouldn’t jeopardize their job by doing something they’re not authorized to do. Especially for a million dollar jackpot that will be scrutinized when won.

Why are you sure though?

Just saying people get caught up and do dopey stuff all the time.

 

[focusondisney]

Why are you sure though?

Just saying people get caught up and do dopey stuff all the time.

Do you really think slot machines can be opened & fiddled with by just anyone? I don’t.

 

[PollyannaMom]

plus aren't casinos all covered with cameras so wouldn't the whole thing be on tape?

This. I hope there is a great angle and they can clearly see the win.

 

[bcla]

The NJ Casino Control Commission should have access to the source software and I believe should have access to any machine at any time. They'll investigate the software and whatever was recorded and will probably be key for any lawsuit.

I do remember seeing a power outage while people were playing slots, including someone in one of those "games". I believe the outcome is more or less predetermined, but they have those games to make it seem like the player can affect the outcome. Or at least a set of determined outcomes if there's a power outage. In any case, when power was restored, all the machines showed a software reset sequence and had credits restored, including the wins that were interrupted.

 

[LuvOrlando]

The NJ Casino Control Commission should have access to the source software and I believe should have access to any machine at any time. They'll investigate the software and whatever was recorded and will probably be key for any lawsuit.

I do remember seeing a power outage while people were playing slots, including someone in one of those "games". I believe the outcome is more or less predetermined, but they have those games to make it seem like the player can affect the outcome. Or at least a set of determined outcomes if there's a power outage. In any case, when power was restored, all the machines showed a software reset sequence and had credits restored, including the wins that were interrupted.

So there is nothing random to the outcome, there is a long cascade of sequences in order and a player simply pays for a line item sequence in a predetermined order? If this is true it would seem it is completely contrary to the spirit of the game. I'm not into gambling but would expect slots to be as random as throwing dice, in the moment and all that.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Do you really think slot machines can be opened & fiddled with by just anyone? I don’t.

I would think someone in the know would be aware they shouldn't interfere in any way so either it was just poor impulse control or a calculated interference, neither is a good look but one is definitely a lesser evil.

 

[focusondisney]

I would think someone in the know would be aware they shouldn't interfere in any way so either it was just poor impulse control or a calculated interference, neither is a good look but one is definitely a lesser evil.

How do you know it was interference & not normal procedure? Do you work in a casino? I didn’t read any interference but an employee doing his job as intended.

 

[LuvOrlando]

How do you know it was interference & not normal procedure? Do you work in a casino? I didn’t read any interference but an employee doing his job as intended.

OK

 

[lovesmurfs]

Way back in the early 1990s (early technology), the hotel I worked as secretary for had three video poker machines. Every month, I'd tally the daily in/out, and I found out it was programmed to pay out about 50% of the take. Some days over, some under, but all generally added up to 50%. It was interesting -- programmed randomness, sort of.

I'm sure that if the casino can show that the machine malfunctioned, her win won't hold up.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Way back in the early 1990s (early technology), the hotel I worked as secretary for had three video poker machines. Every month, I'd tally the daily in/out, and I found out it was programmed to pay out about 50% of the take. Some days over, some under, but all generally added up to 50%. It was interesting -- programmed randomness, sort of.

I'm sure that if the casino can show that the machine malfunctioned, her win won't hold up.

But is that enough? If the device has two truths why is one more important than the other? If there is the algorithm, which is not openly revealed to onlookers and players, and, there is also the visual display that is purposefully revealed, how is it fair that the thing players can't see is the deciding factor and we are to ignore the part that is presented?

 

[hertamaniac]

With this type of caveat, I don't see how a casino can claim any slot/video-based win is 100% valid. The disclaimer of machine malfunction is their way of limiting damage control at any given point. What's next? That ace of spades on the blackjack table really is a 2 of hearts. At least there, visual = actual.

 

[NYCgrrl]

But is that enough? If the device has two truths why is one more important than the other? If there is the algorithm, which is not openly revealed to onlookers and players, and, there is also the visual display that is purposefully revealed, how is it fair that the thing players can't see is the deciding factor and we are to ignore the part that is presented?

With this type of caveat, I don't see how a casino can claim any slot/video-based win is 100% valid. The disclaimer of machine malfunction is their way of limiting damage control at any given point. What's next? That ace of spades on the blackjack table really is a 2 of hearts. At least there, visual = actual.

I imagine there is a third party who will look at the CCTV footage and computer software: NJ’s casino authority (don’t know true name).
They’ve a vested interest insuring the casinos are honest.

 

[_19disnA]

All of those huge jackpots tend to be at multiple unrelated casinos and I assume IGT who runs them has some sort of software to monitor the game across many machines and casinos. I doubt any slot technician is able to 'tamper' with the payouts/jackpots. Likely every slot machine is designed with various safeguards to prevent that.

 

[bcla]

So there is nothing random to the outcome, there is a long cascade of sequences in order and a player simply pays for a line item sequence in a predetermined order? If this is true it would seem it is completely contrary to the spirit of the game. I'm not into gambling but would expect slots to be as random as throwing dice, in the moment and all that.

Sure. It's random at the point that the player presses a button and a number is pulled out of a random number generator. Even modern slot machines with mechanical reels are essentially electronic, but have mechanical brakes that stop the reels precisely where they're supposed to stop. If the brakes malfunction and the reels show something that wins, it won't give a payout or the payout could be different. The reels themselves are not truly random. I've seen one being serviced/checked, and one test was to put it in a mode to have the biggest jackpot (like 7-7-7-7) come up on the reels. There's been some criticism because they also program "near misses" to make it look like it was that close to winning a big one. That's easy to do.

There are other games that aren't truly random at a certain point. Mini-baccarat is completely deterministic once the cards go into the shoe, unless a dealer messes up.

 

[Tuffcookie]

I would think, when someone hits for a big jackpot, that machine is locked, so no other transactions can take place on that particular machine and no personnel can open it and fiddle with it. It would be up to an outside agency to either confirm the win or deny it.

 

[bcla]

Way back in the early 1990s (early technology), the hotel I worked as secretary for had three video poker machines. Every month, I'd tally the daily in/out, and I found out it was programmed to pay out about 50% of the take. Some days over, some under, but all generally added up to 50%. It was interesting -- programmed randomness, sort of.

I'm sure that if the casino can show that the machine malfunctioned, her win won't hold up.

Nevada has a legal requirement that all slots and video machines must be designed/programmed to produce at least 75% theoretical payout. I remember a lot of smaller casinos used to have signs saying that certain machines were designed for something like 97% or 98%.

I looked it up in Atlantic City, and there the minimum theoretical average payout is at least 83% as regulated by the state.

For most casinos the theoretical average is higher than the minimums.

 

[kdonnel]

Legal gaming is highly regulated.

The gaming control board will be involved.

A casino will not jeopardize their gaming license by refusing to pay a real win.

If the casino says it was not a win, I believe the casino.

 

[LuvOrlando]

So many people seem to feel this is common knowledge. As a non player I had no idea. I'll be watching for the outcome, sure is interesting.

 

[kdonnel]

So many people seem to feel this is common knowledge. As a non player I had no idea. I'll be watching for the outcome, sure is interesting.

This video is reasonably short and direct about how modern slot machines work.

How the outcome is selected the moment you press the button and the reels or displays are just there for entertainment purposes.

 

[LuvOrlando]

So first question that pops into mind is with the probability ratio, what is the denominator they use, so what sort of timeline are they using? Is it 95% in a day, a month, a year, in the life of the machine so 95% in say 5-10 years based on say the lifetime average or the accounting depreciation for the device? Or is it 95% off into infinity assuming the machine will work forever? It matters quite a lot because if you have thousands or millions of years to go in the math, well, winning where you are right now is way less likely than a requirement to meet that 95% in 5 years.

Anyone know?