Wheelchairs at WDW

[dash]

I normally wouldn't be posting on this board, however, I must share an experience DH and I had on our recent trip to Epcot. As we were headed for the bus back to our resort, my husband heard from behind him a woman in a wheelchair tell her husband to run us the h(expletive deleted) over. We let them pass us and then observed that they were headed to the same resort we were. They proceeded to the front of the very long line (there were other handicapped people waiting in the line) and got on three buses ahead of us and at least one bus ahead of the other people in wheelchairs who were waiting in line. I know that This behavior is not representative. All I can say is it isn't in keeping with Disney and it takes all kinds...

 

[SueM in MN]

I normally wouldn't be posting on this board, however, I must share an experience DH and I had on our recent trip to Epcot. As we were headed for the bus back to our resort, my husband heard from behind him a woman in a wheelchair tell her husband to run us the h(expletive deleted) over. We let them pass us and then observed that they were headed to the same resort we were. They proceeded to the front of the very long line (there were other handicapped people waiting in the line) and got on three buses ahead of us and at least one bus ahead of the other people in wheelchairs who were waiting in line. I know that This behavior is not representative. All I can say is it isn't in keeping with Disney and it takes all kinds...

Well, just like people who are not using wheelchairs/ECVs.....
There are nice people and there are not nice people who are using wheelchairs.

 

[dash]

Well, just like people who are not using wheelchairs/ECVs.....
There are nice people and there are not nice people who are using wheelchairs.

Exactly.

 

[eeyore45]

Thank you Sue for you kindness - I really appreciate it!!

(It made the difference, between continuing to read the boards, and leaving)

 

[waltfan1957]

sorry to hear about your dd sue most people seem incapable of realising the differance between a borrowed chair and your own, why would anyone pay thousands of £/$ for a power chair if you do not need one certainly not to line jump for a few days a year, but then again the person who made the comment about your dd obviously is incapable of thinking we go on the 30/12/05 can't wait for the snide comments

 

[LakeAriel]

Well, just like people who are not using wheelchairs/ECVs.....
There are nice people and there are not nice people who are using wheelchairs.

You are absolutely right and it is what I tried to say to you but you find it your place to judge whose opinion is worthy, a posters or yours!

You are also right that a person can look perfectly healthy and be very ill and need a wheelchair etc. I was speaking of those that DON"T and they exist in huge numbers of late, and the idea that dozens of their company take all the seats while not waiting.
Disney is a wonderful, beautiful place but ike everywhere there are millions of visitors, there are people who abuse the generousity of others and make life harder for the people who obey rules and regulations and don't abuse the sysem. There is no reason we need to be "hush hush" about it and not try to correct the abuses! I said repeatedly it has nothing to do with the truly needy.
PS I am sorry you have a child truly needy and I am sure you will be certain she reaches her full potential. I can see why you are protective of the disabled too, but again this is not about the disabled. It is about those that are not.

 

[waltfan1957]

while i agree with ariel on some points sue has had more experience having a disabled dd on this subject, and from our own time in disney the able bodied have no idea or care about the lets face facts the cheating they do or the extra hardship they place on the truly disabled,

 

[Figaro]

I don't look disabled from the outside and have many times over the years heard comments from other people about how "unfair" it is that I get to go on rides/buses first. And it is very frustrating as we always get fastpasses, always go at less crowded times of the year and the so-called "perk" of getting on buses first (which is no real perk as we get off the buses well after everyone else), is something every single disabled person I know would trade in a heartbeat in order not to have to use a wheelchair/ECV.

However, over the years I have been approached repeatedly (must be because I look nice)(smile), by people who want to tell me of how awful they were to other people using wheelchairs/ECV's and how convinced they were that these people were "cheating" because they "just knew" because of the way that they looked. And what these people who approach me want me to do is to forgive them for all of the times that they thought nasty things (with NO evidence except their often preconceived beliefs) or said nasty things to people (loud enough so that the person in the wheelchair/ECV could "overhear") that they were SURE were cheating.

Karma has a way of biting people in the rear(smile). And I know this because of the times I've heard people apologize to me for their former attitudes/beliefs. Besides, isn't the world a much nicer place if everyone would just assume that the people using the wheelchair/ECV needs it and that just because we can't see anything wrong doesn't mean that their isn't? That way no one gets upset or angry which makes the visits much more pleasant for everyone.

I can think of at least one valid interpretation of the people where the wife was in the wheelchair and then not and moving freely. Some back problems flare so badly that a person can't even move and then when they improve, a person who doesn't have to use a wheelchair all of the time will be out of it and moving freely. Sitting in wheelchairs is NOT a pain-free thing, as you get stiff, your bottom gets sore, your back can hurt and the sunburns on the top of the knees/feet can be horrible.

And I never worry or fret about the people that announce that they are "cheating" by getting a wheelchair or ECV(smile). They will find out soon enough that these are not some "front of the line" pass and that that it is MUCH more of a pain to try and maneuver and keep track of it in the parks. Plus they will pay for it since they aren't used to sitting in that position for an entire day(smile). I still remember how long it took me to get used to a wheelchair and how stiff and sore I was for weeks after.

While I read this board almost every day, I don't post as much as I used to. Partly because we have moved away from Disney vacations to ones in Mexico(smile). And the reason we decided to purchase a timeshare in Mexico is because while the vast majority of the country is NOT accessible, the people there are wonderful and willing to do anything at all possible to help with the wheelchair. On our very first visit to Mexico, my spouse looked at me and said: "I don't feel tense anymore. I'm not wondering who is going to jump in front of the wheelchair (adults, as little ones really don't understand) and who is going to glare at us or make comments. The people here (in Mexico) treat us so decently and kindly."

And he was right(smile). This hit home even more when we were waiting (on the way back from Mexico) in the Memphis airport and he had parked me and the wheelchair next to a kiosk while he went to the bathroom. A businessman talking on a cell phone walked right into the wheelchair, cursed at me and continued on. All I could think was: "Welcome back to the U.S.A."(smile) and we decided to buy a timeshare in Puerto Vallarta and not at Disney.

 

[SueM in MN]

while i agree with ariel on some points sue has had more experience having a disabled dd on this subject, and from our own time in disney the able bodied have no idea or care about the lets face facts the cheating they do or the extra hardship they place on the truly disabled,

You are absolutely right and it is what I tried to say to you but you find it your place to judge whose opinion is worthy, a posters or yours!

There is no doubt that the people using wheelchairs/ECVs in the examples given by waltfan and dash were doing nasty and selfish things. I don't disagree with that at all.
Were they "truely disabled"? I don't have enough information.
Were they "faking"? I don't have enough information.
Do I think some people do use wheelchairs/ecvs that they really don't need to get "benefits"? Yes, but I have been around long enough to know that there is little benefit in using either an ecv or a wheelchair. So, I don't think it's a widespread problem. Apparently there are some people who believe otherwise.

Do nice people sometimes do nasty things for a good reason (like maybe they were in a hurry because they forgot some medication in their room and were frantic because they missed a dose)? Something like that wouldn't excuse doing selfish things, but could explain them.
If those people in the example were not using wheelchairs, they would probably still be doing other nasty and selfish things. Things like:

• have one person waiting in line and just before boarding, a whole lot of people join them in line.
• board first on the bus and use a number of seats for packages, while other people are standing.
• push past other people to the front of the line at one of the food carts.
• bypass the line that is waiting for characters and push their kids to the front.
• use a stroller as a battering ram to clear the way.
• arriving at the parade at the last minute and expecting good spots in the front.
• taking flash pictures of every scene in Pirates.
• etc, etc, etc

The point I'm trying to make is that just because someone acts in a selfish way doesn't mean they are abusing a wheelchair.
There are some perfectly nice people who are using wheelchairs/ECVs. There are some perfectly nasty ones. Some were that way before they became disabled. Some became bitter or feel like the world owes them after a disability. But, that abuse. It doesn't mean they don't need the wheelchair.
And being disabled doesn't give someone the right to be selfish and nasty, but some are.

WDW does have some ways to deal with things that are not always followed. In the situation where 10 or 12 people accompanied the person with a wheelchair - Disney policy is a total of 6 people (5 plus the person with a disability). I don't know why the CM didn't abide by that, but that's the policy. It's also the policy if they didn't have a wheelchair and had 10 or 12 people rush up to join the one person in line. Again, the CMs don't always follow the policy.
In the situation where one person with a wheelchair came up past others with wheelchairs who were waiting - well, if they were waiting in the regular queue; the bus driver boarded the person who was in the wheelchair boarding spot. Maybe he didn't know the others were patiently waiting in line because they were in line, not where he could see them. If it was us waiting in the wheelchair boarding area and someone rushed up to go ahead of us - we would have said something at the time.

The only people who can judge whether or not a need is real are those people using the wheelchairs/ecvs.
The people over the years who observed my DD and decided she was cheating thought they had enough "evidence" to decide that she was a faker. The people who have made comments/looks to people like Figaro and zumbergc, and eeyore45 are hurting people.
Over the years, I've seen lots of posts from people who are in pain, but worried that they are "not disabled enough". For every post where someone complains about abuse, there are probably 10 where someone in pain is afraid of being judged and chooses not to use a wheelchair or ecv they really need.
I choose to look at people using wheelchairs and ecvs as having made a decision that they need one. Maybe a few people decided based on what it might "get" them, as opposed to what their needs were. But, I figure why they are using them is their business, not mine. And to look with suspicion at everyone is not helping anyone and hurts some (as Figaro very eloquently posted).

So, if that's deciding my opinion is more valid than a posters, I plead guilty.

 

[phillybeth]

You are also right that a person can look perfectly healthy and be very ill and need a wheelchair etc. I was speaking of those that DON"T and they exist in huge numbers of late, and the idea that dozens of their company take all the seats while not waiting.

Really? If they look 'perfectly healthy' then how can you tell who is faking?
Rent a chair for a day and then see how you feel about all your 'special' perks. See how much longer your family has to wait in line because on a ride that seats hundreds at a time there is only one WC car that you can use. Spend the whole day looking at other peoples' butts. Then come back here and complain about a family getting a seat on a bus before you.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I choose to look at people using wheelchairs and ecvs as having made a decision that they need one. Maybe a few people decided based on what it might "get" them, as opposed to what their needs were. But, I figure why they are using them is their business, not mine. And to look with suspicion at everyone is not helping anyone and hurts some (as Figaro very eloquently posted).

I've found what using an ECV in (and now outside, when traveling) the parks "gets" me is an entire day to experience and enjoy the Disney magic - as well as the pleasures of other theme parks which shall remain nameless but which are also in the Orlando area). Walking, I might spend an entire day in a park but only get about two hours of enjoyment. The rest of the time, I'd be sitting someplace waiting for the pain to subside. I truly can't see how I could get through more than one or two queues a day.

Well, just like people who are not using wheelchairs/ECVs.....
There are nice people and there are not nice people who are using wheelchairs.

Um, I guess I might be sometimes guilty here After exiting Test Track in September, I got "trapped" in the photo viewing area. Every time I tried to proceed in the ECV, another group of riders would stop directly in front of me, blocking my exit. After my sixth, increasingly desperate, "Excuse me!", one lovely Guest responded, "Maybe if you were nicer about it, people would move".

 

[SueM in MN]

Um, I guess I might be sometimes guilty here After exiting Test Track in September, I got "trapped" in the photo viewing area. Every time I tried to proceed in the ECV, another group of riders would stop directly in front of me, blocking my exit. After my sixth, increasingly desperate, "Excuse me!", one lovely Guest responded, "Maybe if you were nicer about it, people would move".

Well, that might be one of those situations where someone who is normally nice is doing something not so nice for a good reason.

We've been in that situation too and have had the "we are going to be trapped in this spot forever" frantic feeling. So, I can understand the increasingly frantic, despirate tone.

 

[waltfan1957]

while we all have a moan including me, the USA and disney is still the best place in the world, my wife says its where she feels as she puts it normal in the UK its not illegal to park in disabled spots and as they are nearly always nearest the entrance thats where most people choose to park, its not easy getting a power chair out of a car in a normal spot so often we just go home, wishing we lived in the USA

 

[Figaro]

The only people who can judge whether or not a need is real are those people using the wheelchairs/ecvs.

Thank you for your excellent, kind posts, Sue! And what you wrote above is oh so true and I just wanted to see it again(smile).

The number of times that people who think they are somehow "defending" or "helping" the "real" disabled people by approaching me and telling me that I don't need a handicapped spot has been very emotionally painful. In our society there is a premium put on never needing help and being able to do things without assistance. Which is one of the reasons that it is so difficult for people to admit that they can't do it themselves anymore and accept assistance.

I will never forget the day that I was sitting my physician's office covered with bruises and picking gravel out of my hands from a fall I had taken. He looked at me and said: "Don't you think it is about time you got a handicapped sticker?"

I started crying. Not because of the injuries but because it was so difficult to give up my view of myself as a non-disabled person. When I first starting using a wheelchair, I felt the same way.

And every comment (back then) that people made about the wheelchair, or parking placard or using the handicapped stall that they claimed was to "help" the "real" disabled people would make me cry. It still hurts, but I have realized that there are a lot more kind people in the world than the very few people who do and say those things(smile).

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm glad I made you smile.

 

[michelle9343]

I just wanted to add my 2cents. I have been traveling to Disney with my disabled DD for 6 years now I still think it is the best place in the USA
for her but 1 I think it is because she is a young child. people seem to still feel" pity" for the young . Many times we have been treated quit rudely by others but I actually pity them. Our life with our DD is so extremely complicated. She spends her life going to endless Dr appt, thereapy lab test MRI surgeries etc. All of my energy goes into the quality of her life. My DD always uses her wheelchair at disney but does have the ability to walk( but she can only walk for very short didtances and had really poor balance.) Also safety is an issue (no fear of stranger no idea of danger). When someone feels they have the right to judge I just ignore. But if they catch us on a bad day BEWARE . I also agree that many times we wait longer in the WC access line then if we could wait in the "other" esp at MK. Buses make me crazy!! Most times we now just drive because people can be so rude. We have also encountered many drivers who really hate to help load the chair and many of the older buses the lifts just dont work anymore. The only park I will take the bus to is MK because it takes so long to get there otherwise. But if we stay till park closing we always hang out and let the crowds thin a bit.My point to all this is we live in a world where people have become so judgemental and so selfish that it really makes me sad. I feel sorry for people who feel like they have to beat the system. I know that they always loss in the end. Touring the parks with a WC is extremely difficult I am sure that most would only do this if they really need to.
Figaro
I know exactly what you mean. It is still hard for me to use the word Disabled when refering to my DD. It still hurts.
Sue M
thanks for always saying the right thing
phillybeth
I couldn't say it better myself

 

[dclfun]

Gee, after reading all this, Disney really needs to add a new tour. It could be the See the Parks in a Wheelchair! tour, or the Family Sitting-in-a-Chair Magic Tour, or "Behind the Scenes from the view of Wheelchair User" tour. Hmmmmm: Explore the parks from a new vista. Be denied boarding at the most popular thrill rides that cannot accomodate a chair! Strain to see things with people standing in front of you! Try to dodge traffic while constantly scanning your surroundings", Try to fiind an accessible restroom! Learn to ignore rude comments of others! Maneuver in a queue line! I'm sure others could think of many "attractions" to be experienced in such a tour. Maybe if judgemental people spent a day seeing things from the perspective of someone who cannot be ambulatory they'd finally "get it". There are no perks, just the few needed accomodations to equalize someone's experience, and there is alot actually missed. Just my2 cents. I choose not to judge anyone's method of mobility and unfortunately sometimes I have a strange sense of humor! ---Kathy

 

[SueM in MN]

Kathy, that sounds like a great tour. (although you forgot the "Have small children mistake your footrest for a chair" part).
I, personally think the world would be a better place if everyone had to take a disability awareness class in high school. Have them "cycle" thru a simulation of some common disabilities. Put them in a wheelchair for a day, send them out with ear plugs, put blinders on or cover their eyes, immobilize an arm or leg, have 2 different radios with earphones - one for each ear - playing 2 different stations. After they have had a chance in a familiar place, take them out somewhere un-familiar and see what it's like.

 

[michelle9343]

SueM I think that would be a wonderful idea>

 

[princess mom of 4]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread - We just returned from trip to WDW with DS-14 (wheelchair maniac kid) and two DD's. We tried to be very open minded about people whose disabilities may not be as apparent as our son's as we enjoyed our vacation. My only contribution to this thread is the thought that if there are people of different ages using wheelchairs or ECV's in an area, the children are still children, and the adults are still adults. Meaning, if you are an adult using a scooter you should probably allow a child in a wheelchair to get ahead of you to view a parade!! Can you tell we had this happen? Up and down Main St, adults allow children to get in front during parades, but in the Accessible viewing area, two grown men took up most of the area, to the exclusion of several disabled children (more than just mine)....just had to vent...