Well, define "we." I may be exaggerating in saying the problem isn't as big as a "lot" of people think, but OTOH in researching specific pins I've often run across someone insisting that the pin in question is being sold by scrappers, because of this, that or the other, and then someone else saying the pin they bought direct from Disney has that date or that quirk to it. Any pin that isn't a limited edition may have gone through more than one printing, and the different printings may have different quirks, so saying a pin "must" be a scrapper because it's subtly different from one you bought at the parks is too strong a statement for me. But there I've run across a number of people on the Internet making it - enough people to seem like a "lot" of people to me. (Again, not referring to this thread in particular.)
Disney has a long history of taking on counterfeiters and being very protective of their name, so part of the reason I'm skeptical is the number of people I've seen say it's a huge problem, but Disney isn't doing anything. Disney is doing something, bet money, and the fact that they didn't come down on a particular ebay seller someone on the Internet has labeled a scrapper makes me suspect that it may be the accuser who got it wrong. The exception is the guys like nannub, who're canny enough not to sell the counterfeit pins directly - going on what little I know of the law, those guys really can be a challenge for Disney to take down on ebay (although Disney can still do things to cut off their source).
But the people accused of being scrappers because they have too many of one pin, or sell too many of the same kind of pins, or sell too cheaply... maybe so, maybe not. Disney knows what pins have gone to the outlet stores, we don't. If the seller's been around selling Disney pins for a while, and Disney hasn't come down on them, odds are the seller isn't knowingly dishonest. The exception being sellers like nannub, but those sellers usually trade their counterfeit pins for the best they can get, skim out the good stuff, and dump the rest in batches, so people like myself who buy one pin at a time and have no particular interest in rarities don't often end up interacting with them.
I'm going to continue to research pins I want because I'm anal like that, and I buy for myself rather than for trading anyhow (DD thought trading sounded cool, and we're hitting WDW in April, which is why I've been reading up on it like a fiend lately). But I just hate to think that people are telling their kids they can't collect or trade because they think it's impossible to do it honestly. China may not enforce copyright laws, but the US does, and so does ebay. So I'd like to tell people to be aware and care, but don't be afraid to trade.
I totally agree with your last statement! I don't think people should give up on trading all together, but it certainly does make it less entertaining for me anyway.
I want to clarify one of the statements you made. I don't think anyone has any absolute information other than their personal experience. So I can say, at least for myself and some others on this thread, that no one indicated that a pin with subtle differences "must" be a scrapper. On the contrary, I've stated over and over, "in my opinion" or something along those lines. However, In General, there are indications that a pin is "likely" a scrapper. These indications, our experiences and postings are not exact science, and I personally cannot guarantee my opinion or insight, but, the "if it walks like a duck" theory is usually correct
As far as Disney taking on counterfeiters, you are correct. They fiercely defend their brand in almost all areas. I have personally talked to Disney legal on more than one occasion regarding this issue. And though they are very vague as to what they are doing to combat the problem, I was able to surmise some of the roadblocks.
I think many are overlooking what an incredibly difficult task this is. First they need to find the distributors in China-this alone is a nearly impossible task. If (and I emphasize IF) they were to find these distributors, then they have to tackle international laws and start there.
If you took the step above TOTALLY out of the equation, and they focused their efforts solely on stopping scrapper sellers, that is again a nearly impossible task. First they would need to target these individuals, then determine, with absolute certainty and substantiated proof they are selling illegally acquired scrappers. That would require probably a full time staff trolling ebay all day every day to try to begin this process. As we all know, all companies have downsized, Disney included, and this is likely just not feasible. Let's say they did do this, then targeted ceratain individuals. The would have to order and receive the items, prove they are scrappers and then pursue legal action. They would then have to work with ebay (another HUGE corporation) to provide legal documents forbidding certain sellers from selling on ebay. Then they would have to rely on ebay to ban these sellers. If that were to happen, I'm guessing it would take all of about 1 minute for these sellers to create new accounts and start all over again.
This is just a small tidbit of what would likely need to be done to curtail this activity from the Disney legal level. Are they doing something about this? Absolutely in my opinion! However, as we all know, this could take years if not decades.
As far as selling pins to outlets, I have yet to see a pin at an outlet for less than $3 (trust me, I've been to dozens all over the country). The cheapest I have ever seen a pin, that is authentic from Disney, was at the CM store and they came down to $2.27 per pin. This was a SPECIFIC sale only for CM's and only for 3 days (special event). I have seen them on sale at Disney Stores for around or slightly under $2 and online for $2-3 range.
As far as the statement that you made regarding "if they've been selling pins for awhile and Disney hasn't come down on them the seller isn't knowingly selling scrappers (paraphrased)" is totally incorrect. There are several sellers (2 that I have specifically given information to Disney legal on) that are STILL selling scrappers and likely will for the foreseeable future. These people are WAY ahead of Disney on getting their fakes sold which is truly a shame. A lot of people who buy these lots have the same way of thinking. "If they have high and good feedback, and are powersellers they must be legit" this is the biggest misconception for potential buyers!
People who are leaving positive feeback for the people have no idea what a scrapper is or that it exists. They are just looking for cheap pins..period. This is what this thread is about..educating those looking to buy cheap pins that are legit. There are reputable sellers of authentic pins on ebay that sell them cheap (I have done so previously). But the overall "take away" information from this thread should be....if it's too good to be true it probably is (note probably). If you're buying 100 pins for under a buck a pin from one person who has sold thousands just like it before, they're fake. Can I say this with absolute certainty? No. But common sense needs to kick it at some point and that's really what I'm trying to convey.
Please don't take this as anything buy my opinion on this issue and certainly not meant to be defensive. I have been in this debate for years now and have gained valuable information and insight regarding it. I do not know everything, I learn something new all the time. But I've done this and been involved in this long enough to be able to spot a scrapper and scrapper seller almost immediately.
I can't imagine anyone would forbid their children to trade because of this issue, I certainly wouldn't do it to my children or encourage anyone else to. But I also don't want to spend my hard earned dollars buying authentic merchandise to trade it with a cheap piece of tin made in China. So I educate myself, my family and anyone who asks, so they can be better informed when trading.
I value everyone's opinion and thank you for posting your thoughts!