Things not going well with the DDP changes

[n2mm]

I am going in September and am using the DDP. I did research online and I knew that tipping would not be included. Here is the problem. I ordered the vacation planning DVD from Disney. It arrived 2 weeks ago. At this time Disney was (maybe they still are) sending out the 2007 DVD. When they discussed the DDP on the DVD they specifically stated that the tip WAS included on the plan. It is very possible that people booked the DDP based on what they heard on the DVD about the tip being included.

That is a good point. I know when I book my trips I do all of the work in advance, then I put it to bed until a few weeks before I leave. I could see how folks could've done the same thing. I don't intend to purchase the DDP in the future because of the changes. I don't see much of a value anymore for the 2 of us and see it only as a prepaid meal plan. Change it for the better and I will reconsider.

 

[Rylee]

Can anybody answer my question--do you actually receive information about the 2008 DDP after you buy it??
What I'm trying to establish is if all of those complaining were actually given wrong or erroneous information, or were simply lazy and didn't check what WAS given to them. Or worse, well knew the new policy and simply decided to save even MORE $$$ by not tipping. And cover that up by displays of mock outrage over the new policy.

I'll explain how it could happen...

If you booked a 2008 package, including the DP, and the CM did not specifically point out the changes, booked through an uninformed TA, or on the Disney site, without reviewing the DP , and had previously used the DP on prior vacations, one may not think to read or review the enclosed dining brochure they received in their package of documents.

I have been to Disney World many, many times, as have many other people. When I receive my final documents, I always double check the paperwork for my dates, resort, guest listed, etc. However, I do NOT always read the enclosed brochures... about each park, the maps, the dining plan, etc., for various reasons... read them so many times in the past, already know my way around, understand how the DP works, and already have my ADR's, etc.... kind of a "been there, done it" sort of mentality.

So, if you were already booked for a 2008 vacation, especially early 2008, and Disney didn't send out special notices to those who booked before the changes were made, (and I do not know if they did or did not, since I haven't booked for 2008, yet) they may not have been aware.

I'm not saying the travelers have no responsibility in this, just pointing out how it could happen.

Also, keep in mind, we all know how greatly CM's can differ in their own knowledge, talkativeness (is that a word?) let's just say friendly banter, some go over everything, some only answered what's asked.

I feel sorry for the families, if they truly were not aware... it has to be cutting into their spending cash, and is surely taking away some of their Disney magic. I also feel for those who are on the receiving end... the servers, management, etc.

I think as we progress through the year, Disney will have to deal with less and less of this, since most people booking into later months in 2008, were probably told or aware of the changes at the time of booking.

 

[Tiger926]

I'd be careful on that one, that is probably a stretch to say "most." I do agree with much of your post, however.

Since you have to stay on Disney property to purchase the DDP, the CM at check-in should just look to see if the people are on the DDP and advise everyone that there are some changes in 2008. It would take all of 5 seconds and avoid the "sticker shock" at the first TS meal. This solution is just too simple....

I said 'most' people, because many people whom I meet for first time (anyone who knows me, uses me to plan their Disney trips!), use travel agents. I continually tell people that it's really easy to book with Disney on their own, but so many people around here still seem to use travel agents. I've always wondered what percentage of Disney guests use TAs?

So, if not 'most', then how are people booking trips? Let's discuss that:

1. Using a knowledgeable Disney friend - if they are like Disers, then they should have known about tips not being included.

2. Booking through Disney - as we all know, CMs are not consistent. Heck, DVC Member Services always messes up my dining ressies in some way, shape or form, and they are not altogether educated on all dining aspects. So, if people have booked through Disney and weren't informed in their initial booking, or later, by a phone call, mailing, email, Internet, etc., then that is a big problem. As I stated, we all love exchanging Disney info, that's why we are here, but the majority of people I know, aren't like me, and when they need to be, they just use me to plan their trips.

Bottom line, the situation could have been avoided if Disney had used a little foresight - give people the proper information in a timely manner, and then you let those same people make their decisions based on that information - this is especially important if the program or policies have changed, like they have with the DP.

Tiger

 

[Darth Cupcake]

I'm not on the DDP and never was. But let me ask--when you purchase it (or get it purchased for you from a travel agent, etc) don't they send you SOMETHING explaining the plan??

We have done the DDP many times but we have never received any information. In fact I remember the first time we didn't get the brochure at check-in and, having no knowledge of the existence of such a brochure, relied on my memory of what I had read on the DisBoards.

The changes Disney can or should do are always up for debate. One thing they need to do is be consistent and clear in their communication. Why don't they send a brochure to those reserving the DDP before their vacation? A brochure that highlights the various rules and stipulations.

 

[caroline1851]

The more expensive the restaurant, the worse the tips are getting. I'll explain. Take your average small town family that saved up a couple years for their trip. Their household income is like 60K, they don't eat out a lot, and if they do its a mom and pop restaurant, etc. Anyway, if they go to a disney restaurant with their family of 4, and the check says a 18% tip is $20, that may be shocking to them. They are use to tipping $5 back home. Dad finds a middle ground, and leave $10. Now the next day they do to a top end restaurant, and 18% is $30 some dollars. That could be 2 hours work for dad. He ups his last tip, and leaves the server $15. That could be the most he has ever tipped, and he really means the best by it.

I take offense to that. I'm part of a "small town family with a household income of 60K" and that doesn't mean that i am shocked when i get a bill and have to figure out the tip and then leave less than what's deserved. Small town doesn't mean cheap or only used to eating at "mom and pop restaurants".

I believe the majority of people tip what the waitstaff deserves. I'll tip 10% for horrible service and 20% for great service and 15% for basic service.

 

[Tiger926]

I'll explain how it could happen...

If you booked a 2008 package, including the DP, BEFORE the changes were made, or made known to the public, (therefor, no CM would have mentioned any changes) and had previously used the DP on prior vacations, one may not think to read or review the enclosed dining brochure they received in their package of documents.

I have been to Disney World many, many times, as have many other people. When I receive my final documents, I always double check the paperwork for my dates, resort, guest listed, etc. However, I do NOT always read the enclosed brochures... about each park, the maps, the dining plan, etc., for various reasons... read them so many times in the past, already know my way around, understand how the DP works, and already have my ADR's, etc.... kind of a "been there, done it" sort of mentality.

So, if you were already booked for a 2008 vacation, especially early 2008, and Disney didn't send out special notices to those who booked before the changes were made, (and I do not know if they did or did not, since I haven't booked for 2008, yet) they may not have been aware.

I'm not saying the travelers have no responsibility in this, just pointing out how it could happen.

Also, keep in mind, we all know how greatly CM's can differ in their own knowledge, talkitiveness (is that a word?) let's just say friendly banter, some go over everything, some only answered what's asked.

I feel sorry for the families, if they truly were not aware... it has to be cutting into their spending cash, and is surely taking away some of their Disney magic. I also feel for those who are on the receiving end... the servers, management, etc.

I think as we progress through the year, Disney will have to deal with less and less of this, since most people booking into later months in 2008, were probably told or aware of the changes at the time of booking.

Good post. It just proves to me how Disney dropped the ball in regards to making the 2008 DP information ready in a timely manner. As I stated above, we shouldn't have had to wait until yesterday to find out that Teppan Edo and Tokyo Dining were on the plan, after the plan had already started! Disney should have had every single element of the Dining Plan worked out by the end of summer, and spent the fall contacting people about the new changes. I'm thinking they didn't do this because of the time it would have taken, and mostly because some guests would have for sure cancelled the plan. Most of the time when people are ambushed, as is the case for many diners this past week, they usually comply, and I'm betting Disney figured this is what would happen. Guests who rant and rave, although getting more common, still are in the minority for the most part, IMHO.

Tiger

 

[WildernessBride]

A co-worker told me that a friend of hers overhead another guy talking about a rumor of a family that vacationed with in-laws who believed that they saw another couple discussing the DDP and the fact that some people might not have approved of a 15% gratuity for ADR’s of less than six persons whereas the DH thought that a “service charge” of 18% was in excess but was “overruled” by his DW and informed that they were, in fact, leaving a “tip” in the amount of 20% in the eventuality that they would, in fact, dine at a place and location to be determined on the Disney/greater Disney dining area, more or less.

How can anyone argue with that?

I am confused...what does this post mean?

 

[fortheloveofamouse]

If it was not for this board I would have no idea about the changes to the dining plan. I just received my travel documents last week and there is absolutely no mention of the change or any "dining plan" brochure. I was not informed my a CM even when I called in Dec. to make my final payment. Disney dropped the ball on this. I would be very angry if the first news of these changes came when I received my bill.

 

[Rylee]

I'd be careful on that one, that is probably a stretch to say "most." I do agree with much of your post, however.

Since you have to stay on Disney property to purchase the DDP, the CM at check-in should just look to see if the people are on the DDP and advise everyone that there are some changes in 2008. It would take all of 5 seconds and avoid the "sticker shock" at the first TS meal. This solution is just too simple....

Certainly the CM can inform the guest at check-in BUT it is NO solution.

The very same people that are yelling at the servers and management, would now be screaming at the check-in desk CM's.

And, for those who were truly not aware of these changes, there will still be issues...

No one likes to feel mislead, cheated, tricked, etc., I am, not at all, saying this is what Disney did, just how some might feel, and they will want "justice" or try to seek to have the "mistake" rectified.

And, for some, it will be a matter of cash flow, they may have budget problems.

What they should do -

Inform guest at check-in, and allow them to opt out of the dining plan, without a fee for the change, refunding their money, in full. And/or offer to help change ADR's to less expensive restaurants.

 

[mom2rose&john]

I booked in early December 2007 throught AAA and was made aware of the changes. However if I booked a year out like many pple I probably would of found out at WDW (if I didn't find this site). I don't think that the management cares/knows the ramifications it will have on the servers. The servers are the middleman who takes the brunt of all the frustration. No it's not their fault for the changes but they are the visible persons that the patron must burden their frustration on. I don't believe in one moment that disney was losing money. I believe that the server was and always will be the one to suffer. How was the gratuity calculated pre-2008 plan?

I believe that in a tourist area such as WDW there should be a mandatory gratuity. There is so much potential for the patron to stiff the server.

Ann Marie

 

[Darth Cupcake]

Certainly the CM can inform the guest at check-in BUT it is NO solution.

The very same people that are yelling at the servers and management, would now be screaming at the check-in desk CM's.

And, for those who were truly not aware of these changes, there will still be issues...

No one likes to feel mislead, cheated, tricked, etc., I am, not at all, saying this is what Disney did, just how some might feel, and they will want "justice" or try to seek to have the "mistake" rectified.

Yes. The plan changes and plan rules must be clearly outlined to the guest before they buy the DDP. If Disney trained their employees to take the time to be sure that the future guest knew exactly what they were buying into, then quickly followed up with a brochure, Disney could alleviate most of the problems they are having now.

 

[TheDizMom]

The way I see it there are 2 major problems here.

People aren't aware of the change ahead of time, so they are unprepared. If you have used the plan in the past and all of a sudden it is different and there is no warning, people are of course going to get angry. It is a shame that the poor wait staff and restaurant employees are taking the brunt of this, and in some cases are losing out financially, for the company's lack of communication with its customer. Wake up Disney!!!! You wouldn't exist if we weren't there to spend our Georges, Abes, Andrews and Bens. At the very least this information should be getting passed on when guests on this new plan are checking in at their resorts. The poor front desk people will probably have some irate guests at check-in, but at least they'll know when they get to the restaurants what they will be dealing with. Ideally I should know before I get to Disney so I can financially plan for it, which brings me to Big Problem #2.

Big problem number 2 is the hit those on a tight budget are taking to their wallets. If I was on a tight budget and got to my first TS restaurant only to be told the tip I didn't think I would be paying for was all of a sudden added to my cash flow, I would be PO'd too ! All of a sudden my spending money has been cut down by lets just say about $100 give or take. That's not chump change. My enjoyment and excitement for my trip has just gone downhill faster then the roller coaster known as Expedition Everest. I don't have as much spending money for t-shirts, hats, Mickey ears , and all those other things I might have been able to buy. It will be harder for me to pay for that extra meal you don't get on the plan, and I will likely pay less to my server then they deserve because I am trying to conserve money. It is a domino effect.

I personally don't care about the appetizer. While nice, it isn't really something I need because the entree and dessert is usually more then enough. I think it might be worth Disney looking into giving the guest the option of having either an appetizer or a dessert since there are probably those who would prefer the appetizer over the dessert. This at least gives the guest more options. But the tip part is not an insignificant sum of money in the great majority of these TS restaurants. I feel the change should be reflected in the cost of the new plan. They are taking out a significant amount of the plan, so they price should be coming down more then $1. I agree with other people in that I would rather pay more for the plan and have my tip included, then have to pay that when I get there. I want to have all those things payed for before I get there, not have to figure it into my spending money. Another possibility might be to have both plans where you can chose the less expensive no appetizer and tip option (with the price on the new plan down more then it is), or the appetizer and tip included more expensive option. It would be kind of like the resorts, value, moderate and deluxe (which is already in existence). Either way the hard part is we liked it the way it was, and Disney isn't doing enough to make this new plan one we can all happily live with. I will be curious to see how it goes.

 

[robinb]

Here's some numbers on exactly how much value is being lost on the new 2008 DDP.

I created a spreadsheet of the "value" of the DDP. I had one for 2007 (http://personalpages.tds.net/~rb/DIS/MYW%20Dining/DisneyDiningRanking.htm) and I made one for 2008 (http://personalpages.tds.net/~rb/DIS/MYW%20Dining/DisneyDiningRanking2008.htm).

Those spreadsheets include a total for the most expensive items and an average of items for a DDP meal at each restaurant. In 2007 it included the appetizer, entree, dessert, drink, tax and 18% tip. In 2008 it included the entree, dessert, drink and tax.

Anyway ... I was curious at how much of a difference there was between the 2007 plan and the 2008 plan, so I took the most expensive options and the averages from 2007 and compared them to those same options in 2008 here:

http://personalpages.tds.net/~rb/DIS/MYW%20Dining/DDP-2007-2008-Compare.htm

Note, some of the differences may be from an increase in the cost of the food and not just the loss of the tip and appetizer.

 

[61disneyfan]

As many others have written in this thread, this is without a doubt a complex problem. I'm not as upset as many others since, while I've been to WDW many times before, this year's trip in February is my first with the (Deluxe) DDP. So I won't miss the fact the tips aren't included any more.

To be sure the communication from WDW is less that exemplary. I was upset that you had to read the fine print to find out that you needed two TS credits for the Signature restaurants - which comprise 3 of the 4 dinners we have planned. So I switched from the DDP to the Deluxe DDP.

This (effective) price increase by dropping appetizers and tips while only dropping the price by $1 is not unheard of from WDW. They've done things like this in the past. (Vacation Club memberships originally included theme park admissions...) If the articles are true, and they were losing money because of the large number of discounted meals, then it's hard to argue with their desire to stop losing money. Clear communication about the changes, as well as offering different options which would still include appetizers and tips (if desired) would have gone a long way to appease the irate guests.

I think the prospect of removing the tips from the plan can have some benefits. If in the past tips were included, and hence prepaid, then for any DDP customer the servers were getting an automatic (and pretty generous) tip. Which doesn't give them much motivation to give great service. So if the mechanism were a little smoother for tipping now (and it may get smoother as the year goes on), then maybe it will motivate the servers.

As someone that has been involved in the food industry, I know personally that it's CRITICAL for us as customers to not only tip according to the level of service, but to inform management in the event of unacceptable (or exemplary) service. It doesn't take long for a good Manager to see a pattern emerging with regards to a server that is not doing their job. And if the Manager does his/her job, than that server will either shape up or leave - which ends up benefiting future customers either way.

I think also that the decision about DDP or no DDP has a lot to do with your itinerary. If you have kids and/or your goal is to maximize every minute you have for as many rides and attractions as you can, the DDP might not be a good option (especially Deluxe) as it pressures you to spend more time eating at sit-down restaurants, which will take time away from the parks. But if your plan (like mine) is a more leisurely vacation (including looking forward to eating at Citrico's, Flying Fish, etc.), then it's still a pretty good deal.

Best of luck to everyone regardless. Here's hoping that everyone's WDW trip is as stress-free as possible this year.

BB

 

[skater]

I can't help but wonder how a company that can make create the intricate details we all know and love can't update their website with accurate info. I would be angry too - and it sounds like the average consumer would not reasonably know about these changes. I probably would have been one of them before I found the DIS. It makes me wonder about Disney's intent? And if I was a CM at the front desk - there is NO WAY I would volunteer the information that would get me yelled at! Right or wrong, I just couldn't do it.

 

[TheDizMom]

I want to make sure I am reading this right. These are DDP averages not the difference between having or not having the dining plan? When I look at these I am not sure.

 

[VacationDad]

I'll explain how it could happen...

If you booked a 2008 package, including the DP, BEFORE the changes were made, or made known to the public,

You couldn't book a 2008 package before the DDP changes went into effect. So this could not happen.

 

[JenH1969]

But you certainly could book the DDP before the change was public knowledge (heck- still not sure if it is "quite" public knowledge-) I booked the DDP without knowing the changes- I read the site- booked- then a month or so later found this site and found out about the changes- I was disappointed but I go into it now knowing where I stand- - Thanks to all the DISers- Jen

 

[just another guy]

You couldn't book a 2008 package before the DDP changes went into effect. So this could not happen.

Some guests are reporting the info disney sent them basically contained the 07 info, as including an app and tip.

 

[DCDisney]

I really think anyone that booked their 2008 DDP back in 2007 should have received a letter or phone call advising them of the changes to the plan

You couldn't even book for 2008 DDP until they came out with the new brochure that listed the no app and tip not included. I booked online and then transferred it to a travel agent. Online they had a link to DDP brochure on the screen where you checked which DDP you wanted and when I switched to the TA they sent me a copy of the 2008 brochure. When they have made changes to the plan mid-cycle in the past they did send postcards informing of the plan change (we went shortly after they stopped allowing dessert with breakfast).