Powerball dreaming. Annuity or Lump Sum

[bcla]

Was at the grocery store today and the lottery tickets are sold from a self-serve vending machine. However, the people in front of me had a list of manual numbers they wanted to use so that had to individually enter each one. After 15 minutes they were still at it, I have no idea how many sets of 'lucky' numbers they must have had, so I left and bought my tickets elsewhere..........!!!

Did they have a play slip reader? Even the self service machines here take the same play slips that standard machines take. Some players who use regular numbers reuse the same play slips.

 

[prairie_girl]

I think he's trying to convey what it would be if you bought here in the U.S.

You can't escape taxes here completely. You're going to owe the U.S. Federal government money even if Canada doesn't.

This is an American thing, and many Canadians have come over to buy lottery tickets in the United States. It’s legal for Canadians to buy and cash tickets from American lotteries, but that would be subject to American rules on tax withholding.

I’m saying that nonresidents buying US lottery tickets will get 30% shaved off immediately off any win that has to be reported to the US Internal Revenue Service. That’s nonnegotiable with the IRS. It’s the same for almost any gambling winnings like a foreign visitor winning any kind of large slot machine jackpot in a US casino.

It’s like you guys are purposely not reading what I’m writing. Yes, we get taxed BUT we can make a claim to request it back.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It’s like you guys are purposely not reading what I’m writing. Yes, we get taxed BUT we can make a claim to request it back.

We understood what you said. If Canada will allow you to claim IRS money from the U.S. government back what is that under for your taxes? Is it something that reduces your tax burden like reducing your adjusted gross income (or similar in Canada)? Or do they actually comp you the entire amount that you paid to the U.S. government like a check back for what you paid to the U.S.? Or something else?

It might be best if you don't come at us like you are and actually explain what the process is for Canadian citizens who pay money to the U.S. government. It's not meant to be such a heated topic....

 

[bcla]

It’s like you guys are purposely not reading what I’m writing. Yes, we get taxed BUT we can make a claim to request it back.

I don’t get what you think happens if a Canadian wins a large US lottery jackpot. The withheld money would go to the the US IRS as the standard 30% nonresident alien tax withholding. But I don’t think that someone would need to file US taxes though, and I understand that Canada doesn’t require reporting and/or paying taxes on gambling winnings regardless of where they take place. But there is no treaty between the US and Canada to claw it back as a refund or whatever else, and definitely not an exemption from withholding.

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p515#en_US_2022_publink1000225023​

Tax treaties.​

​

Gambling income of residents (as defined by treaty) of the following foreign countries is not taxable by the United States: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Russia, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom.​

​

Gambling income of residents of Malta is taxed at 10%.​

​

Claimants must give you a Form W-8BEN (with a U.S. or foreign TIN) to claim treaty benefits on gambling income that is not effectively connected with a U.S. trade or business. See U.S. or Foreign TINs, later, for when you can accept a Form W-8BEN without a TIN.​

 

[John VN]

Will be out on a cruise when drawing takes place so with my luck I'll win and wind up falling overboard.

Seriously, I'm 72 and ok with life even with my cancer likely to get me sooner than later so just take the 30 payout and let DW, DD and DS worry about the remaining BILLION+.

 

[bcla]

We understood what you said. If Canada will allow you to claim IRS money from the U.S. government back what is that under for your taxes? Is it something that reduces your tax burden like reducing your adjusted gross income (or similar in Canada)? Or do they actually comp you the entire amount that you paid to the U.S. government like a check back for what you paid to the U.S.? Or something else?

None of that seems terribly likely.

This seems to be a basic misunderstanding of how A) the IRS taxes nonresident alien gambling winnings and B) doesn’t intend to give that back to anyone short of there being a treaty. The only treaty that would apply for Canada is one that might allow US gambling losses to offset US gambling winnings. I don’t think that would put much of a dent in taxes for a Powerball jackpot though. I’ve heard of US lottery players who keep their tickets to help offset any taxes on winnings that are reported. There’s that movie of a guy who figured out how to win at a lottery and he kept all the old tickets to apply as a gambling expense for his corporation where he paid all taxes and his investors paid all taxes.

That being said, there are some Canadian companies claiming that they might be able to get some of it back, but I’m skeptical. The IRS doesn’t mention it.

One of the weirder things is a US federal law that makes it illegal to bring in a lottery ticket into the United States, which might be needed to redeem it if someone comes back to the US to handle it. Not sure it’s well enforced. It’s considered an “immoral article” although there’s an exception for US lotteries where the ticket is somehow printed in Canada. Doesn’t sound likely though.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/19/130519​

U.S. Code § 1305 - Immoral articles; importation prohibited​

(a)Prohibition of importation​

All persons are prohibited from importing into the United States from any foreign country any book, pamphlet, paper, writing, advertisement, circular, print, picture, or drawing containing any matter advocating or urging treason or insurrection against the United States, or forcible resistance to any law of the United States, or containing any threat to take the life of or inflict bodily harm upon any person in the United States, or any obscene book, pamphlet, paper, writing, advertisement, circular, print, picture, drawing, or other representation, figure, or image on or of paper or other material, or any cast, instrument, or other article which is obscene or immoral, or any drug or medicine or any article whatever for causing unlawful abortion, or any lottery ticket, or any printed paper that may be used as a lottery ticket, or any advertisement of any lottery. No such articles whether imported separately or contained in packages with other goods entitled to entry, shall be admitted to entry; and all such articles and, unless it appears to the satisfaction of the appropriate customs officer that the obscene or other prohibited articles contained in the package were inclosed therein without the knowledge or consent of the importer, owner, agent, or consignee, the entire contents of the package in which such articles are contained, shall be subject to seizure and forfeiture as hereinafter provided: Provided, That the drugs hereinbefore mentioned, when imported in bulk and not put up for any of the purposes hereinbefore specified, are excepted from the operation of this subdivision: Provided further, That the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, admit the so-called classics or books of recognized and established literary or scientific merit, but may, in his discretion, admit such classics or books only when imported for noncommercial purposes: Provided further, That effective January 1, 1993, this section shall not apply to any lottery ticket, printed paper that may be used as a lottery ticket, or advertisement of any lottery, that is printed in Canada for use in connection with a lottery conducted in the United States.​

I read somewhere that this has concerned enough Canadians buying Washington state lottery tickets that they’re willing to work with potential winners to avoid the confiscation. Not sure if they would accept a photo or maybe cross the border to verify. Or maybe worok with CPB.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/u-s-lottery-vows-to-help-canadian-powerball-players-collect-prize-1.2735256

 

[bcla]

One of the weirder things is a US federal law that makes it illegal to bring in a lottery ticket into the United States, which might be needed to redeem it if someone comes back to the US to handle it. Not sure it’s well enforced. It’s considered an “immoral article” although there’s an exception for US lotteries where the ticket is somehow printed in Canada. Doesn’t sound likely though.

That effective January 1, 1993, this section shall not apply to any lottery ticket, printed paper that may be used as a lottery ticket, or advertisement of any lottery, that is printed in Canada for use in connection with a lottery conducted in the United States.​

I was thinking about the exception. It's apparently not really about US states conducting lotteries in Canada. However, one of the biggest suppliers of lottery tickets in the world is Canadian, and they sell to US states conducting lotteries. It might be for things like scratch-off tickets as well as sheets of lottery printout paper.

https://www.pollardbanknote.com/202...icket-manufacturing-and-by-the-texas-lottery/​

WINNIPEG, Manitoba, October 12, 2022 /CNW/ – Pollard Banknote Limited (TSX: PBL) (“Pollard Banknote” or “the company”) is pleased to announce that it has been awarded a contract from the Texas Lottery Commission (“Texas Lottery”) to provide Scratch Ticket Manufacturing and Services. The new contract, which extends the successful and collaborative partnership through 2034, includes the rollout of Pollard Banknote’s ground-breaking easyVEND™ In-Lane ticket vending solution to retailers across the state.​

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Honestly a million would do me just fine. 1.6 billion just seems like more trouble than it's worth.

 

[John VN]

Honestly a million would do me just fine. 1.6 billion just seems like more trouble than it's worth.

Absolutely correct --- like the left-over $1,599,000,000.00 not worth the trouble BUT at 1.9 billion ???? that's a different story

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

Lump sum. Say it's 800M before taxes; about 400M after those hit.

Set up a corporation (25M operating costs). Hire my kids to 'work' there (all they would have to do is help out handing out money to people who need it). Corporation buys all the houses and cars for the kids and us. (Woohoo, corporate tax breaks!)

Put money in trust accounts for kids/grandkids (50M each kid; 25M for grandkids to share...what, they get their parents leftover money that gets doled out). Buy each niece/nephew a new car; set up a trust fund for them and their kids for college/trade school $$ (25M there).

Trust fund for us (50M). We are in our 50s and don't need as much. Enough to live on and do some traveling.

The last 100ishM gets to go to charitable works, via the corporation. Fund food banks and women's clinics. Homeless housing and job training for people with convictions. Transplant costs for lower income people who need that life saving gift. Adoption costs for families willing to help those children in need; transition homes for those in the foster care system, for when they turn 18 and the state kicks them to the curb without anything. IDK what else.

 

[mrodgers]

I won!! $4

I wouldn't know if I won anything. I can't get a single site that would tell me the numbers to load since Saturday night. Still can't on any internet connected device I've tried.

 

[mrodgers]

Honestly a million would do me just fine. 1.6 billion just seems like more trouble than it's worth.

Unfortunately, I think winning a million would be worse. It would merely double my salary and my salary isn't anything worth writing home about. I work 50% more hours over my base pay in overtime and still struggle so doubling my salary isn't enough. I would be able to get further away from being homeless and buy a house, which would be life changing, but that's about it. I'd still need to work, but I at least would be able to be more choosy in the overtime necessity which would be it needs to be done now rather than I can get it done and pay my electric bill even though I could do this tomorrow kind of overtime.

 

[Dan Murphy]

I wouldn't know if I won anything. I can't get a single site that would tell me the numbers to load since Saturday night. Still can't on any internet connected device I've tried.

I use the app on my phone to play, if/when I do. If I win, I get an email from the Lottery.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I wouldn't know if I won anything. I can't get a single site that would tell me the numbers to load since Saturday night. Still can't on any internet connected device I've tried.

There was a brief time yesterday morning that the checking of the numbers was down but it was back up quickly enough. Check again.

The numbers have been announced all over in like every news article but if you want to see if your numbers won anything you should be fine to check.

 

[mrodgers]

I use the app on my phone to play, if/when I do. If I win, I get an email from the Lottery.

I only play when it gets big. I'm not a lottery player. The lottery doesn't need access to my phone microphone and camera. It's not really that important that I need yet another app.

 

[Moliphino]

Hope you are in one of the following states, Arizona, Delaware, Georgia, Kansas, Maryland, New Jersey, North Dakota, Ohio, South Carolina, Virginia, and Texas, as they are the only ones that allow winners to stay anonymous.

There are ways to get around it in the other states.

 

[bcla]

Lump sum. Say it's 800M before taxes; about 400M after those hit.

The ratio of annuity and the lump sum changes based on projected investment rates.

I’m seeing an estimated lump sum of $929 million though, but it will probably go up based on current sales. I’m really surprised that it’s gone this high. The whole idea of the worse odds was obviously to create higher jackpots, but I’m pretty sure that in the past few weeks over 300 million tickets were sold for each drawing. Odd are what 1 in 292 million or close to that?

 

[disneychrista]

There are ways to get around it in the other states.

Unfortunately for me California is not one of them.

 

[bcla]

There are ways to get around it in the other states.

I’ve heard some have tried via a trust, but that gets tricky. And one winner signed the ticket in her name and thus couldn’t use the trust. She sued but I don’t recall the outcome. Found it.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/hampshire...all-winner-remain-anonymous/story?id=53689185

 

[John VN]

I'm a 100% true Pessimist so when I got a ticket for the 1.9b I said "I would like a Powerball Quick Pick that's a 1.9b losing ticket please"

I will be 100% correct - so not a problem OR pleasantly surprised - so not a problem