Poll - Will your kids get the Covid vaccine?

[AndreaA]

Honestly? It's not the same thing at all.



Your response to posters was more about your doctor's choices for her own kids or at least you made sure to stress that but posters were asking about your kids.

Yes, it absolutely is the same thing. I was told to consult the doctor - clearly with the hope that a doctor‘s encouragement would get me to change my mind. I replied saying that I already HAD consulted, and that my choice was fully supported.

Let’s not pretend that if I’d replied that I’d consulted the doctor and she said I should reconsider and that it was so safe that she was getting her own kids vaccinated, that there would have been zero replies about it except for those that said, “You really should listen to your doctor - she thinks it’s safe enough to get for her own kids!”

 

[OregonDisDad]

(Those findings were also published here, since I know OregonDisDad prefers to read the actual studies: https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jcmg.2020.10.023 )

No need to provide long posts with actual studies on my account. I read several of the ones posted, and they confirmed my concern that we don’t really know what the long term side effects of the vaccine will be on our kids (or us). I’ll be keeping my kids safe by not subjecting them to risks from a trial vaccine until there is some long term data available. The risk of danger to my kids without the vaccine is just too low. I have no problem with parents who want to get their kids the vaccine. I just wish that they could accept that it is not for them to decide what others do (or to attempt to berate or demean people who disagree with them).

 

[KrazeeK120]

Yes, it absolutely is the same thing. I was told to consult the doctor - clearly with the hope that a doctor‘s encouragement would get me to change my mind. I replied saying that I already HAD consulted, and that my choice was fully supported.

Let’s not pretend that if I’d replied that I’d consulted the doctor and she said I should reconsider and that it was so safe that she was getting her own kids vaccinated, that there would have been zero replies about it except for those that said, “You really should listen to your doctor - she thinks it’s safe enough to get for her own kids!”

It doesn’t matter what anyone’s doctor does with their own kids. Some people, kids included, have a legitimate medical reason for not getting vaccinated. Just because one kid can’t get the vaccine for whatever reason doesn’t meant that the rest shouldn’t either. Conversely, if a doctor gets their own kids vaccinated, they still should obviously not recommend the vaccine for those who legitimately cannot take it.

I’d be really concerned about a doctor who makes a blanket recommendation against a vaccine, though, unless they provided some kind of documentation of a peer-reviewed study indicating that the vaccine is not safe. And if my doctor did not provide such information, I’d be looking for a new doctor. (Not saying your doctor falls in this category, I can’t tell for sure, just throwing it out there.)

 

[OregonDisDad]

Yes, it absolutely is the same thing. I was told to consult the doctor - clearly with the hope that a doctor‘s encouragement would get me to change my mind. I replied saying that I already HAD consulted, and that my choice was fully supported.

Let’s not pretend that if I’d replied that I’d consulted the doctor and she said I should reconsider and that it was so safe that she was getting her own kids vaccinated, that there would have been zero replies about it except for those that said, “You really should listen to your doctor - she thinks it’s safe enough to get for her own kids!”

Absolutely agree with AndreaA on this. Amazing how we start with “listen to you doctor” and end with “listen to me”, and “you need to get a doctor that agrees with me”

 

[xuxa777]

You asked me where the 95% came from. I explained that the higher the education level, the more likely a person is to get vaccinated. I linked the first article and told you it was about the strong correlation between education level and vaccination rates. People who don't have high school diplomas have the lowest vaccination rates. People who have a high school diploma have the second lowest vaccination rates. It keeps increasing. About 75-80% of people with bachelor's degrees are getting vaccinated. About 90% of people with graduate degrees are vaccinated.

I'm sorry you didn't like the fact that one article specifically said that 95% of emergency room doctors were vaccinated. The study was done to analyze vaccination rates among different levels of health care workers. Again, the health care workers that didn't have much education (such as medical assistants) had fairly low vaccination rates. On the opposite end of that spectrum, the ER doctors had extremely high vaccination rates of 95%.

The last story I shared was to emphasize how that doctor didn't know any doctor at her work who had refused the vaccine. They had all gotten vaccinated. The emphasize the point to people, she created a poll on social media for doctors to show how 95% of doctors who responded were vaccinated. But, if you would like more sources, that's fine! I was worried about making my post too long last time. I will link more sources for you.

According to this article, "'Ninety percent of doctors and master's-prepared nurses have either gotten the vaccine or are in the process of getting vaccinated,' Choucair told NPR, citing national data about doctors and highly trained nurses."
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/04/9932...rate-at-rural-hospitals-needs-to-be-fixed-now

Here's an article that quotes the former CDC director, Dr. Tom Friedman, who says, ""More than 95% of the doctors who have been offered this vaccine have gotten it as soon as they can."
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/9784...ho-say-they-dont-want-the-vaccine-try-doctors

Here's another article that states, "over 90% of doctors across the country have chosen to get vaccinated."
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-borough...tors-marshall-barrasso-boozman-congress-covid


So I hope that answers your question about where I got the 95% figure from. The overwhelming majority of doctors are getting vaccinated. If you still feel afraid of the vaccine, talk to your doctor or your pharmacist (According to this press release from last month from the American Pharmacists' Association, over 92% of pharmacists are vaccinated as well: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...-19-vaccines-continues-to-grow-301265280.html).

I don't think you realize the articles you listed here about the 95%, are referencing the same small one study of ER doctors. Not really making your point stronger. It is the same article rehashed. If not referencing it is just a singular opinion, in one cases a pharmacist. You stated "Doctors (MDs) have an extremely high vaccination rate of about 95%" That is just not true. Like I said I am sure MDs get vaccinated more than the general public but it is not 95%, not at all.

 

[TheFloatingBear]

No need to provide long posts with actual studies on my account. I read several of the ones posted, and they confirmed my concern that we don’t really know what the long term side effects of the vaccine will be on our kids (or us). I’ll be keeping my kids safe by not subjecting them to risks from a trial vaccine until there is some long term data available. The risk of danger to my kids without the vaccine is just too low. I have no problem with parents who want to get their kids the vaccine. I just wish that they could accept that it is not for them to decide what others do (or to attempt to berate or demean people who disagree with them).

I don't mean this specifically directed to you but more in the general sense...I can accept that I cannot decide for other parents, and I can truly empathize that it can be a difficult decision for many, as I have certainly given it considerable thought myself. However, in this situation, as has been stated, children who are not vaccinated can impact other children, so other people's decisions can directly impact my kids, either regarding their health or just their ability to attend school and other activities. Given that, I really just hope that people can understand that one can't have it both ways and at least adhere to public health requirements, because that is an on-going issue in my area - again not directing this specifically at you just I think it will be important going forward given vaccine hesitancy. You have determined the risk to your kids to be low. For my kids, I would say the risk of covid is at least moderate. Both my kids have underlying health conditions - minor, but not completely insignificant. Their pediatrician has highly recommended that they receive the vaccination. There have been 10 cases diagnosed in the school this last week or so, which is probably average for us. Three of the cases were children that went to a cheerleading competition in Florida and tested positive upon return. Two followed the protocol the school has in place for out of state travel. One did not and returned to school prematurely and now others are in quarantine, etc. This is a story that has happened over and over again in my town this year. I understand the hesitancy, I just hope people will understand the need for continued mitigation methods if we don't get a critical mass of the population vaccinated.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Absolutely agree with AndreaA on this. Amazing how we start with “listen to you doctor” and end with “listen to me”, and “you need to get a doctor that agrees with me”

You both seem to be missing the point people are trying to make though.

Replying with “I did talk to their doctor and she recommends they don’t get it” is one thing. And I would hope nobody would question the why because that it is private information.

Responding with “she isn’t getting her own kids vaccinated and says I shouldn’t get mine either” (not a direct quote, but sums it up) changes the narrative. It does invite questions and head scratching about WHY the information about what the doctor is doing with her own kids is relevant. For all the accusations of people trying to push their beliefs on others, remember that road goes both ways.

 

[xuxa777]

Personally, I'm not as worried about the initial disease in my kids as I am the long term effects of the virus. Did you hear about the study they did on college athletes at Ohio State University? After a bunch of their players tested positive for COVID-19, they randomly selected 26 of them for a study after they had recovered. Most had mild cases or had been asymptomatic. They did various tests and scans, and they found that 12 of them (46%) had damage to the heart. Four of them (just over 15%) had myocarditis.
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-...enced-heart-damage-after-covid-19-study-67929

Here is another article you can read:
https://www.sciencenewsforstudents....even-mild-covid-19-can-develop-heart-problems

He writes: "I am chief of heart medicine at West Virginia University School of Medicine. My team has been developing techniques to assess changes in heart muscle among people with COVID-19. This fall, we screened the hearts of 54 student athletes who had tested positive for the virus three to five weeks earlier. We found heart abnormalities in more than one-third of them. Most had developed either mild symptoms or none at all."

To me, it's scary that these teens and college kids had mild cases but still had serious damage to their heart. That's why I want to get my kids vaccinated. I'm sure they would survive initial illness from COVID-19, but I don't want them to deal with long term damage to their organs. I don't see why I would choose such a high risk of damage to their hearts when there will be a vaccine available to protect them.

Additionally, my kids have some friends who are high risk. One of my son's friends has cystic fibrosis. They also have a cousin who has chronic lung issues due to a previous RSV infection. I know not everyone has children they know who are at risk from other diseases like cancer, Downs Syndrome, diabetes, cystic fibrosis, and sickle cell disease, but we know children who are at risk, and I want my kids vaccinated to help protect these loved ones.

(Those findings were also published here, since I know OregonDisDad prefers to read the actual studies: https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jcmg.2020.10.023 )

again with the misinformation, that study has been debunked multiple times. the Big10 which postponed their season because of it , changed their tune once it was exposed as not true. BTW the real number is more like 0.6% when a real study was done, not 45% or 15%.

https://www.tctmd.com/news/low-incidence-myocarditis-among-pro-athletes-diagnosed-covid-19
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2777308
everyone should get vaccianted if they choose, but don't spread bad information, only makes things worse.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes, it absolutely is the same thing. I was told to consult the doctor - clearly with the hope that a doctor‘s encouragement would get me to change my mind. I replied saying that I already HAD consulted, and that my choice was fully supported.

Let’s not pretend that if I’d replied that I’d consulted the doctor and she said I should reconsider and that it was so safe that she was getting her own kids vaccinated, that there would have been zero replies about it except for those that said, “You really should listen to your doctor - she thinks it’s safe enough to get for her own kids!”

Obviously the wires being crossed here. I think other posters see what I'm getting at though and I'm not sure if it's just the way I'm explaining it that isn't getting across what I meant.

I wasn't speaking at all to you consulting with your doctor, in fact I said that's what you did, which is what posters were suggesting.

I spoke to the fact that in response to posters suggesting you do consult your doctor you really made it about that your kid's doctor wasn't going to vaccinate her kids which matches your own feelings. That really doesn't matter to us. It should be about your kids and their health and concerns on their side. That's why I also put in my comment about not every kid will be recommended. Believe it or not I'm trying to not judge you or your doctor on the choices. I would however be searching for another doctor (and stand by that) if they were advising all their patients to not vaccinate.

 

[xuxa777]

Education attainment is the strongest predictor of whether or not a person gets vaccinated.

No, it's not 100%, but there's a high correlation. I wonder if some of it comes from understanding risks. For example, we know that 1 in 56 Americans who have tested positive for COVID-19 have died from it. We know that people who survive their initial battle with COVID-19 are at a 60% increased risk of death for at least 6 months. We know that survivors of COVID-19 can deal with long term complications including cognitive issues, heart disease and circulatory issues, lung damage, and even kidney failure. You basically ignore all of those risks when you say you would choose that virus instead of the vaccine that prevents it because of your fear there could possibly be some long term health impacts from the vaccine (when there is just no evidence to support that fear). We know the vaccines have been used (literally) billions of times safely. The potential risks between the virus and the vaccine just don't compare. The virus is dangerous.

According to the findings from the University of California, people who have no college education tend to underestimate the effectiveness of the vaccine and overestimate the risks of the vaccine:
View attachment 574360
You can read more here if you're interested: https://news.usc.edu/182848/education-covid-19-vaccine-safety-risks-usc-study/

I see you're from Oregon. Interestingly enough, I have a family member who lives in Oregon. She also has a doctorate (and post-doc). Hers is in public health, and she's a professor at Pacific University. It probably goes without saying, given her expertise, she's a strong proponent of vaccination. I'm fortunate because I can go to her with any questions I have. I'm curious, where did you get your doctorate? You obviously don't have to tell me, but I was wondering if it was from a university in Oregon.

You could also say, economic status and not intellect is the strongest predictor. That is the funny thing about correlation vs. causation.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Absolutely agree with AndreaA on this. Amazing how we start with “listen to you doctor” and end with “listen to me”, and “you need to get a doctor that agrees with me”

You glossed over my very blunt comment below:

Not all kids will be recommended to get vaccinated. It's okay for that to be the case. Just like adults who have been advised not to get the vaccine or in some cases not get the second dose. But that advice is specific to that individual(s).

I want a doctor who listens to my concerns, who reviews my health history and decisions I want for the future (should any medication in general affect that), etc and can give me that advice based on that. Not once in any of my responses to the poster say she should find a doctor that agrees with me, I don't even know that I mentioned whether I was for or against kids getting vaccinated on this thread. I said I'd be looking for a new doctor if they were not recommending any patient get the vaccine and surely that's understandable on for why. But maybe it isn't I guess.

 

[OregonDisDad]

I don't mean this specifically directed to you but more in the general sense...I can accept that I cannot decide for other parents, and I can truly empathize that it can be a difficult decision for many, as I have certainly given it considerable thought myself. However, in this situation, as has been stated, children who are not vaccinated can impact other children, so other people's decisions can directly impact my kids, either regarding their health or just their ability to attend school and other activities. Given that, I really just hope that people can understand that one can't have it both ways and at least adhere to public health requirements, because that is an on-going issue in my area - again not directing this specifically at you just I think it will be important going forward given vaccine hesitancy. You have determined the risk to your kids to be low. For my kids, I would say the risk of covid is at least moderate. Both my kids have underlying health conditions - minor, but not completely insignificant. Their pediatrician has highly recommended that they receive the vaccination. There have been 10 cases diagnosed in the school this last week or so, which is probably average for us. Three of the cases were children that went to a cheerleading competition in Florida and tested positive upon return. Two followed the protocol the school has in place for out of state travel. One did not and returned to school prematurely and now others are in quarantine, etc. This is a story that has happened over and over again in my town this year. I understand the hesitancy, I just hope people will understand the need for continued mitigation methods if we don't get a critical mass of the population vaccinated.

If you think it is helpful, get your kids the vaccine, and mask them up to your heart’s content. Given the high efficacy of the vaccine, on top of the efficacy of the masks, they should be well-protected. If you are still concerned, you can limit their activities to those you feel are safe. Data from their (hopefully) positive experience with the vaccine may even help convince me to get the vaccine for my kids.

I’m just suggesting (again) that others should stop trying to impose their decisions those of us who disagree. As for me, I’ve already happily returned to as much of a normal life as my state allows, and will be returning to WDW in June to enjoy one of our favorite places on Earth (hopefully with even fewer restrictions than we see today).

 

[OregonDisDad]

You both seem to be missing the point people are trying to make though.

Replying with “I did talk to their doctor and she recommends they don’t get it” is one thing. And I would hope nobody would question the why because that it is private information.

Responding with “she isn’t getting her own kids vaccinated and says I shouldn’t get mine either” (not a direct quote, but sums it up) changes the narrative. It does invite questions and head scratching about WHY the information about what the doctor is doing with her own kids is relevant. For all the accusations of people trying to push their beliefs on others, remember that road goes both ways.

I’m not missing the point at all. I do think it is relevant that the Dr. is not vaccinating her kids (whatever the reason). It should help others refrain from berating those who choose to do the same as the Dr. You do you. I’ll do me.

 

[leahgoogle]

You asked me where the 95% came from. I explained that the higher the education level, the more likely a person is to get vaccinated. I linked the first article and told you it was about the strong correlation between education level and vaccination rates. People who don't have high school diplomas have the lowest vaccination rates. People who have a high school diploma have the second lowest vaccination rates. It keeps increasing. About 75-80% of people with bachelor's degrees are getting vaccinated. About 90% of people with graduate degrees are vaccinated.

I'm sorry you didn't like the fact that one article specifically said that 95% of emergency room doctors were vaccinated. The study was done to analyze vaccination rates among different levels of health care workers. Again, the health care workers that didn't have much education (such as medical assistants) had fairly low vaccination rates. On the opposite end of that spectrum, the ER doctors had extremely high vaccination rates of 95%.

The last story I shared was to emphasize how that doctor didn't know any doctor at her work who had refused the vaccine. They had all gotten vaccinated. The emphasize the point to people, she created a poll on social media for doctors to show how 95% of doctors who responded were vaccinated. But, if you would like more sources, that's fine! I was worried about making my post too long last time. I will link more sources for you.

According to this article, "'Ninety percent of doctors and master's-prepared nurses have either gotten the vaccine or are in the process of getting vaccinated,' Choucair told NPR, citing national data about doctors and highly trained nurses."
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/04/9932...rate-at-rural-hospitals-needs-to-be-fixed-now

Here's an article that quotes the former CDC director, Dr. Tom Friedman, who says, ""More than 95% of the doctors who have been offered this vaccine have gotten it as soon as they can."
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/9784...ho-say-they-dont-want-the-vaccine-try-doctors

Here's another article that states, "over 90% of doctors across the country have chosen to get vaccinated."
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-borough...tors-marshall-barrasso-boozman-congress-covid


So I hope that answers your question about where I got the 95% figure from. The overwhelming majority of doctors are getting vaccinated. If you still feel afraid of the vaccine, talk to your doctor or your pharmacist (According to this press release from last month from the American Pharmacists' Association, over 92% of pharmacists are vaccinated as well: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...-19-vaccines-continues-to-grow-301265280.html).

This was back in March and was a statement given to a zoom group hesitant to get the vaccine. It didn't represent how many doctors have actually gotten or been offered the vaccine.

Also, polls are not reliable. Yes, this doctor made an online poll on social media that like minded people answered. People with different opinions are more inclined not to answer. There was another article you posted about 90+% of pharmacists getting the vaccine that was also poll related.

I'm not saying it's not true, but I need actual data from places administering the shots, not polls to prove that information.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

What began as a pretty simple question/poll with three offered responses - YES, NO, MAYBE - has, as usual, devolved into arguing, attacks, and the usual rhetoric from our resident experts on Covid-19, vaccines, masks, science, etc. - resulting in the closure of another thread.