Not to reopen that can of worms but...

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That was one of the things that stuck out to me about that "Messy Business" article. They claimed the whole thing was a success, but then when asked if they were rolling it out at other parks ... nope. Hmmm. Spoke volumes to me. Made the whole thing feel like a failed experiment.

Now, if they do roll it out to other parks, that will make the positive spin they're putting out there a whole lot more believable.

But why would whether it goes to other parks be the lone determining factor for success? (Meaning of it goes to others it is definitely a success and if it doesn't, then it isn't.)

Just curious as I have seen the fact that it hasn't been brought elsewhere. But I don't get what difference it makes.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This recent article does a fairly good job of outlining where the increases in revenue and attendance have come from and doesn't attribute any of it to FP+

http://www.tampabay.com/news/busine...rld-have-left-the-middle-class-behind/2233577

Because that isn't what the article is about. It is a piece in pricing out the middle class.

There isn't a way to quantify the $ impact of FP+. Only that, it was added. Prices increase. More people still come.

And includes this quote:
"As a business professor, it's the right strategy."

So even thigh it is bad for the middle class--Disney is doing something right to meet some demand.

 

[itchin2go]

But why would whether it goes to other parks be the lone determining factor for success? (Meaning of it goes to others it is definitely a success and if it doesn't, then it isn't.)

Just curious as I have seen the fact that it hasn't been brought elsewhere. But I don't get what difference it makes.

It wouldn't be the determining factor; it's just a sign to me that things didn't turn out as rosy as we might be led to believe.

Look, there's 2 polar opposite possibilities here (and a lot of other stuff in the middle).

Either, (1) this project exceeded expectations, turned out exactly as they wanted, and within the company, is regarded to be a huge success.

Or (2) it has flopped, didn't do near what they wanted it to do, people aren't happy, the company wishes they had never embarked on it, had never spent the money.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Regardless, I feel like the PR is going to be the same.

So I look at other stuff to see if I can see what's really happening. The fact that they haven't rolled it out to other parks is just an indication that it's not the roaring success they are crowing about. It doesn't prove anything, but it is a factor to look at.

I know there are other reasons why they might not roll it out to the other parks. So it's possible that (1) above is true, but they still don't want to take it to the other parks ... for logistical reasons, demographic reasons, etc. Certainly a possibility.

 

[WillAustin]

Just curious as I have seen the fact that it hasn't been brought elsewhere. But I don't get what difference it makes.

I think if it was a slam dunk financial success, they'd roll it out everywhere as soon as possible to take advantage of it.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Regardless, I feel like the PR is going to be the same.

I also remember reading that several executives involved with the rollout of MM+ did lose their jobs. That was in 2014 I believe.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It wouldn't be the determining factor; it's just a sign to me that things didn't turn out as rosy as we might be led to believe.

Look, there's 2 polar opposite possibilities here (and a lot of other stuff in the middle).

Either, (1) this project exceeded expectations, turned out exactly as they wanted, and within the company, is regarded to be a huge success.

Or (2) it has flopped, didn't do near what they wanted it to do, people aren't happy, the company wishes they had never embarked on it, had never spent the money.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Regardless, I feel like the PR is going to be the same.

So I look at other stuff to see if I can see what's really happening. The fact that they haven't rolled it out to other parks is just an indication that it's not the roaring success they are crowing about. It doesn't prove anything, but it is a factor to look at.

I know there are other reasons why they might not roll it out to the other parks. So it's possible that (1) above is true, but they still don't want to take it to the other parks ... for logistical reasons, demographic reasons, etc. Certainly a possibility.

But they roll successful things at parks that don't convey to others often.

Radiator Springs is awesome, we have been told. But all they built in Orlando was a Cars decorated section of a hotel.

I am not stating MDE/FP+ is a "roaring" success. Just that successful things don't always get duplicated immediately if ever.

Plus it has only been fully rolled out for about a year or so and still subject to tweaking.

Remember that it isn't just FP+ but an entire system if which FP+ is but one feature.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I also remember reading that several executives involved with the rollout of MM+ did lose their jobs. That was in 2014 I believe.

What was their role? Because if there jobs were done, letting then go once the job was pretty much executed is a common thing.

Again--not saying that is the case, but you should be asking what their role was and if their being let go had to do with the role being completed or for the role being completed poorly.

 

[WillAustin]

Just curious as I have seen the fact that it hasn't been brought elsewhere. But I don't get what difference it makes.

What was their role? Because if there jobs were done, letting then go once the job was pretty much executed is a common thing.

Again--not saying that is the case, but you should be asking what their role was and if their being let go had to do with the role being completed or for the role being completed poorly.

No, the articles specifically cited the long delays and pointed out their jobs weren't gone because they finished. I'm sure you can find them if you are interested. It was January or February of last year.

 

[itchin2go]

But they roll successful things at parks that don't convey to others often.

Radiator Springs is awesome, we have been told. But all they built in Orlando was a Cars decorated section of a hotel.

I am not stating MDE/FP+ is a "roaring" success. Just that successful things don't always get duplicated immediately if ever.

Plus it has only been fully rolled out for about a year or so and still subject to tweaking.

Remember that it isn't just FP+ but an entire system if which FP+ is but one feature.

All true. To me, it just didn't reinforce the idea that it was a screaming success. Just my perception - could be totally wrong.

As I said, I know that it could be a success, and they still wouldn't take it to other parks for various reasons.

You know, the feeling I get from reading something may be totally different than the feeling others get. We all read into things. It just got my antennae up a bit, so to speak.

You know, it's kind of like if your friend took a trip to the beach, and came back talking about how amazing it was, but then, you ask, "So you're going back next year?", and your friend says, "No, I'll never go back." Sure, there are lots of reasons why they could have (a) had an amazing trip, but (b) never go back. But don't you wonder if that trip was REALLY so amazing?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No, the articles specifically cited the long delays and pointed out their jobs weren't gone because they finished. I'm sure you can find them if you are interested. It was January or February of last year.

That's okay. I take your word for it.

Nice to know that someone was held responsible for a project taking too long.

 

[WillAustin]

That's okay. I take your word for it.

Nice to know that someone was held responsible for a project taking too long.

Here's one I remembered and found interesting.

http://micechat.com/49401-my-magic-plus-failure/

I'm sure someone will respond to discredit it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

All true. To me, it just didn't reinforce the idea that it was a screaming success. Just my perception - could be totally wrong.

As I said, I know that it could be a success, and they still wouldn't take it to other parks for various reasons.

Fair enough.

As I said, I don't portray it as a roaring success. Not enough information.

But I also don't think it is an epic failure either. Not enough information for that conclusion. Though people are free to have that opinion based on what they believe, their experiences, and observations.

 

[itchin2go]

Fair enough.

As I said, I don't portray it as a roaring success. Not enough information.

But I also don't think it is an epic failure either. Not enough information for that conclusion. Though people are free to have that opinion based on what they believe, their experiences, and observations.

And on all of this - we 100% agree.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Here's one I remembered and found interesting.

http://micechat.com/49401-my-magic-plus-failure/

I'm sure someone will respond to discredit it.

Can I at least point out that their projection for DCA attendance was a million+visitors too high. http://m.ocregister.com/articles/million-616717-california-park.html

 

[WillAustin]

Can I at least point out that their projection for DCA attendance was a million+visitors too high. http://m.ocregister.com/articles/million-616717-california-park.html

It's a very pro-DL site.

 

[Jfine]

We like fp+. We also liked fp- though. The biggest difference is flexibility. I'm a little more hesitant to park hop now - especially to Epcot. The other thing I don't like is the tiers. Once again, at Epcot it forces to wait for TT or Soarin. Same with HS. But we come out ahead at MK I feel. Lastly, some rides have much longer waits. Spaceship Earth, I'm looking at you. I'm don't think we've ridden that ride since FP+. But I do feel like it's made our trip more efficient, and it feels like we have more control over our time. We can sleep in if we want. We don't have to worry about what time our fp - return is. I really like being able to pick our fp+ times. Plus it's really nice to not be walking all over the park for fp tickets.
We've also had no issue with DH using my pink with girly designs printed on MB. One time a CM said, "Well hello, Jane" to DH. The both laughed and DH continued to the ride.

I'm changing my opinion (and skimming responses)...We just got back from our first trip in a busy season with fp+. We rode two rides that we didn't have FP+ for over the 4 days we were there. Our last trip in summer was 2 years ago, so just prior to fp+. We rode far more rides on our trip 2 years ago. Maybe crowds are that much larger, but I believe that fp+ is stretching out the wait for rides with an fp+ option. On a trip last month, we got in line for 7DMT during emh. The line was outside the ride. During non EMH, it would have been 70-90 minutes easily. The posted wait time was 40 minutes. I questioned the cm and she said it was right, that it because there was no fp+. So in that example fp+ doubled wait times. Not sure if it was the same with fp-. So for us, still not ruining trips, but we aren't experiencing (and not spending) as much and I think eventually that will impact how often we go.

 

[JimmyV]

So for us, still not ruining trips, but we aren't experiencing (and not spending) as much and I think eventually that will impact how often we go.

Sums up our approach. We are doing less. And people will say that this is because others are doing more. And I get that. Great for them. Not great for me. Maybe I used to do 24 rides a day because we were gaming the system, touring like commandos, or using strategies that negatively impacted the less savvy visitors. I don't know, and I have to say that I don't really care. But if I now spend the same (or more) amount of money and find that I am only getting to do 18 things a day, the reason behind the decline is largely unimportant to me. The net result is what is important. So maybe there is a family on the other side of the see-saw who used to do 15 things a day and now they are doing 18. They are beaming and they might go to WDW more often as a result. But on our side of the see-saw, we are going less. This is the first time in forever that I do not have my next WDW trip on my calendar. And the sole reason is that over my last 2 trips, I felt that I got less for my money.

 

[mom2rtk]

Sums up our approach. We are doing less. And people will say that this is because others are doing more. And I get that. Great for them. Not great for me. Maybe I used to do 24 rides a day because we were gaming the system, touring like commandos, or using strategies that negatively impacted the less savvy visitors. I don't know, and I have to say that I don't really care. But if I now spend the same (or more) amount of money and find that I am only getting to do 18 things a day, the reason behind the decline is largely unimportant to me. The net result is what is important. So maybe there is a family on the other side of the see-saw who used to do 15 things a day and now they are doing 18. They are beaming and they might go to WDW more often as a result. But on our side of the see-saw, we are going less. This is the first time in forever that I do not have my next WDW trip on my calendar. And the sole reason is that over my last 2 trips, I felt that I got less for my money.

People are still gaming the system, only in different ways with different "winners".

 

[JimmyV]

People are still gaming the system, only in different ways with different "winners".

True. When I read about "unlinked multiple Magic Bands" and cancelling your unwanted FP+s before you get to the park, and on and on, it makes my head spin. I don't really have any interest in learning the "IT Glitch Tricks" necessary to "win", especially when my old strategies did not involve tricking the system. They simply involved diligence.

 

[austinwildflower]

Actually one doesn't lose the fp's if you cancel the throwaway or any other room you've booked which quite frankly did surprise me(unless it is a package). On our last trip we were booked to spend our 1st few days at the Poly where are friends wanted to stay. Within the 60 day window but before the 30 day window opened we ended up cancelling (after our friends backed out from the trip) since we were able to get a luxury suite at the Waldorf for less than a garden room at the Poly .

Although we couldn't make any changes to our fp's already booked until the 30 day window opened we retained those fp's.

A true throwaway does not involve cancelling the room. Although I am a proponent of the throwaway strategy I have never been a proponent of booking for fp's then cancelling the room. That does cost Disney money, and I am surprised that they allow fp's under those circumstances to remain.

It's sad you have this way of thinking. You're hurting other families that want to camp but can't due to throwaway bookings. Would it be okay for a billionaire to buy out Magic Kingdom admission for a day, so he could have it all to himself? After all, he would be giving Disney lots of money. Sometimes you have to think a bit about other people and about being an honest person, and not just about a bit of money.

 

[socrateze]

It's sad you have this way of thinking. You're hurting other families that want to camp but can't due to throwaway bookings. Would it be okay for a billionaire to buy out Magic Kingdom admission for a day, so he could have it all to himself? After all, he would be giving Disney lots of money. Sometimes you have to think a bit about other people and about being an honest person, and not just about a bit of money.

Sorry, but I disagree. When I'm on vacation, the only thing I care about is my family's enjoyment, that's what I'm paying for. If I am willing to pay for a campsite or room to assure that my family has a great vacation, I will do it. Anyone can do the same thing.