Major Policy Change in DVC/DCL Trade Policy UPDATE ON POST #193

I know. But you have to go back through the thread and read what all the posters who have actually spoken to MS leadership team members reported. That's hard to do because from time to time, we have wandered far off topic and it's hard to sort those posts out from all the speculative stuff.

There apparently is not specific availability for points usage on particular sailings. The explanation several of us have been given is that there is an overall amount of points availability for each fiscal year, and that when that's gone, it's gone.

This didn't happen over a period of three weeks -- it happened literally overnight. One day there was availability; the next morning there was none. That happens every day with resort availability - and it has happened once before with DCL -- I don't know why we have such a hard time understanding "no availability."

Thanks for that explanation...you are right, I missed that. I certainly didn't think that's how it worked. I thought there were some cabins on each cruise open to DVC.

I think it should be mandatory that they explain THAT when they are giving their "Buy DVC, sail DCL" spiels.
 
I think it should be mandatory that they explain THAT when they are giving their "Buy DVC, sail DCL" spiels.
Well, that is gonna depend on the integrity of the individual guide. My guide is no steller example of professional ethics, but even she told me everything was subject to availability.

However, the same day Carol started this thread, there was another thread where one guide claimed, and another guide verified, that resale points could no longer be used for DCL, ABD, or RCI exchanges. He was lying, of course, just saying anything he could think of to make a sale to a prospect who brought up resale. Other, more reputable, guides debunked his lies.
 
Shouldn't we expect them to monitor availability?

I do know that if something needs to get cut because of availability, DVC is the first to go.

:earsboy: Bill
But, DVC didn't cut anything. I think, JimMIA explains this in his post below.

There apparently is not specific availability for points usage on particular sailings. The explanation several of us have been given is that there is an overall amount of points availability for each fiscal year, and that when that's gone, it's gone.

This didn't happen over a period of three weeks -- it happened literally overnight. One day there was availability; the next morning there was none. That happens every day with resort availability - and it has happened once before with DCL -- I don't know why we have such a hard time understanding "no availability."

It's too bad, Disney can't do a routine accounting and notify members when inventory is low. I know, they aren't required to do this and would probably be quite difficult. Still, it would be nice if possible.
 
Here's my update-they are still not able to get the 11B loaded-but they said to call back on Friday to see if it has been fixed. So will hope for some pixie dust on Friday...It's taken a month to book a 7 day cruise :laughing:.
 
It's too bad, Disney can't do a routine accounting and notify members when inventory is low. I know, they aren't required to do this and would probably be quite difficult. Still, it would be nice if possible.
I don't think that is feasible until (or unless) we get online booking or some way of looking at availability online. We have so many members, with such different interests.

That's where dragging DVC kicking and screaming into the 20th century in terms of technology would be a huge benefit.
 
Here's my update-they are still not able to get the 11B loaded-but they said to call back on Friday to see if it has been fixed. So will hope for some pixie dust on Friday...It's taken a month to book a 7 day cruise :laughing:.
If you haven't already done so, I would call that guy whose name I gave you and sweetly ask him if he can help.
 
Actually, he called me! He was very, very nice-but it is a computer issue that has to be resolved. The funny thing is that at least two agents reported the problem prior to "Black Friday" with no result. The supervisor I spoke with last Friday received word that they were working on the issue... I also received a call from someone working on the call back list-he also ran into the computer problem. So, I think that they are willing to convert my reservation-they just can't at this point. I even offered to change categories yesterday-but they seem optimistic that it will all work out...I'm not purchasing our nonrefundable flights yet though!
 
I think what everyone has to remember about this while it seems complicated - it is very simple in principle.

All DVC member's access to DVC and all of its offerings boil down to one point - BALANCE.

All the points at a DVC resort are not owned by members - some are held at CRO for reservations for NON-DVC members to stay in a Deluxe Villa - instead of a 'standard' resort room. It's just like renting a week at a beach house - you don't get the perks of 'living there' but you can 'rent' there for a week (or however long you need)

SO - CRO has to fill those rooms to turn a profit.

What most people don't realize is that the everything in the hospitality industry is perishable - just like food.

If a hotel has 12 empty rooms on any given night they cannot recover that loss. A hotel can't go back and recover inventory to 'make rooms' on a night for which they have no vacancy.
Just like if a catering facility is only booked 1 weekend out of the month for a wedding reception - the other weekends are 'loss' on their books.

There is a daily expiration date on hotel rooms, banquet facilities, rental properties etc etc etc.

SO - in light of all of that - DVC - and CRO have to FILL their rooms to continue to turn a profit.

If every DVC member that owns at Boardwalk Villas decided to 'trade out' that year to an RCI resort - to do an Adventures By Disney Trip - to do a Disney Cruise - they would have to work harder to fill the resort.

When you look at the balance at the end of the day - people that aren't staying at a DVC resort aren't shopping in the gift shop, aren't eating at the restaurants, aren't buying park tickets, and aren't booking spa appointments.

If the demand for Disney Cruise Line rises amongst DVC members who have the desire to pay with points - DVC has to work all that much harder and spend all that much more to market Deluxe Villas. SO it is in DVC's best interest to enter into an agreement with DCL that will benefit both business lines. DVC and DCL are good business models - and they make decisions that make money. Are the decisions they make ALWAYS in the best interest of the guest/member? NO - they can't be - because if we all had our way we would want there to be a bus pulling into the state as we were walking up, we would want free dining, buy one night get one week free, and 'at will' take what you want gift shops. That's the PERFECT world! But then again - how would they make money that way.

A ship sitting in port isn't making money - an airplane sitting in the hangar isn't making money - a restaurant sitting empty isn't making money - in fact (other than consumables) it costs the same to operate any of these scenarios when you consider the staff, the maintenance, the upkeep - and impacts most importantly the bottom line.

DVC has to balance what they do - what they make available - partnerships that are made- and how many rooms they can fill with non-DVC members when the points that a member owns at the resort are not used at the resort.

An interesting point to make is this -
Overall - it is cheaper to rent your points to another individual or family than to 'trade' them to DVC for a cruise. Cruises are on the pricey side 'per point' - so look at it this way - instead of making DVC do the legwork in 'trading' your points - do the leg work yourself and the problem will be solved on all accounts - DVC will fill a room - you will save money on booking your cruise with cash - and your maint. fees may go down because DVC's marketing cost goes down.

BUT - in the end - it's all about balance. And just how your bank account has to balance at the end of every month - DVC's room inventory has to balance at the end of every day.

If what I have said is incorrect - forgive me - it's just how I feel!:surfweb:
 
I still think some of you are not understanding that trade outs whether they are DCL, RCI, ABD, Disney collection hotels, etc are all part of the allotment allowed for trade outs.

So yes there could have been availability on the cruises on a certain day and then none the next, because the total allotment for trade out was gone, not specifically cruises.

TJ, explained this very well, at the beginning of this discusion. He used percentages and while based on info given to me by leadership I don't think it's a percentage per say, there is a formula that keeps it in balance.

It simply was a situation of too many people wanting to trade out to something.

We here at the DIS are focused, especially in this thread on DCL, but we have no idea what the trade out situation is for thousands of other members not on the DIS, who may be using points for any of the trade outs.

DCL did not take away inventory, it simply was a Perfect Storm of sorts of too much trading out fueled by the increase interest in cruises by members.
 
I don't think that is feasible until (or unless) we get online booking or some way of looking at availability online. We have so many members, with such different interests.

That's where dragging DVC kicking and screaming into the 20th century in terms of technology would be a huge benefit.

I agree, it would definitely need to be online. I was thinking, a calendar similar to what some airline programs and hotels use.... automatically showing low, medium or high occupancy for each day.

Of course, there would be no need of a calendar for cruises, since there is one grand total of points available. Maybe, they could use a meter?

I wonder, why is Disney so technology challenged?:confused3
 
The bottom line....this is again another mid-stream policy change without adequate notification. On multiple occasions in the course of the past months I have asked member services if I can take my cash reservation for a 2011 cruise and change it to points. On all calls, I was told YES at any time as long as I had not paid off the cruise, had not reached the penalty period, or had not turned my reservation over to a travel agency. At no point in time did ANYONE mention inventory limitations or anything specific relative to a sail date or dates.
 
But they didn't "run out" of availability. That's misleading. DCL slashed availability, didn't they?

To me, that's not the same thing at all, and greatly changes my view of the program.
None of us know for certain but putting all the info together, here's the way it looks to me. They have a policy in place of limits to a certain volume of cruises (or total points, etc) they they either hadn't been enforcing or hadn't needed to and they instituted enforcement abruptly. My guess is they actually went over the limits and that someone in upper management freaked.

I still think some of you are not understanding that trade outs whether they are DCL, RCI, ABD, Disney collection hotels, etc are all part of the allotment allowed for trade outs.
I'm not sure how they implement the limits and I'm not sure it's the same now as it was a month, year or 5 years ago. It really doesn't matter as it's DVD's choice to do so. Take RCI and BVTC out of the equation though as they don't really apply to the cash type exchanges like DCL, DC, CC & ABD.
 
Well, I guess the hold up saved me the $95 change fee-I just got an email from my son's school-they're moving his senior trip-so,we'll be moving our Alaska cruise-not sure whether to laugh or cry at this point-maybe we're not meant to go on this cruise after all:confused3...
 
Hi all, I got a voice message today at home from a woman (Edited out name since I thought maybe I can't post CM's names) from DVC with a 321 area code. She said she was calling about the email I sent to DVC.

Is this a bad sign that this wasn't one of the two Guys that seem to be helping others? I am nervous to call her back tomorrow!! I am afraid she is the "no way can we help you person".

:scared1:
 
The bottom line....this is again another mid-stream policy change without adequate notification. On multiple occasions in the course of the past months I have asked member services if I can take my cash reservation for a 2011 cruise and change it to points. On all calls, I was told YES at any time as long as I had not paid off the cruise, had not reached the penalty period, or had not turned my reservation over to a travel agency. At no point in time did ANYONE mention inventory limitations or anything specific relative to a sail date or dates.

All accommodations are subject to availability.
 
All accommodations are subject to availability.

That's kinda silly to say. Of course all accomodations are subject to availability. MaMinnie was clearly stating that DVC never stated that DVC had limited availability. After all she already has the accomodation with her cash reservation, so availability would not be an issue. If they had mentioned that she would be subject to DVC having ability then that would be different.

I was actually told to go out and book the cash cruise to get the category I want and then call back to change it to points (actually I was told to rebook it when we cruised in October and then call and transfer to points with a slight discount on the points). So I wasn't even asking if I could do this, I was told to go do it. This was after she looked to see if the category I wanted was available with points (and it wasn't).
 
That's kinda silly to say. Of course all accomodations are subject to availability. MaMinnie was clearly stating that DVC never stated that DVC had limited availability. After all she already has the accomodation with her cash reservation, so availability would not be an issue. If they had mentioned that she would be subject to DVC having ability then that would be different.

I was actually told to go out and book the cash cruise to get the category I want and then call back to change it to points (actually I was told to rebook it when we cruised in October and then call and transfer to points with a slight discount on the points). So I wasn't even asking if I could do this, I was told to go do it. This was after she looked to see if the category I wanted was available with points (and it wasn't).

How is availability for a cash reservation, the same as one on points? :confused3 I've always understood they aren't the same. Obviously, this is only the second time DVC has reached it's limit. I guess, in the past conversion hasn't been a problem...but does DVC guarantee it?
 
Wow...:scared1:
We booked a cash deposit back in March for the Disney Dream 8/16/2011. I hope something can be resolved. Just found out about this issue earlier today.
We have family (non-DVC) that have paid cash for the same cruise, in fact, our rooms are booked next to each other. In fact, I have trying to get them to purchase DVC by advocating the 'perks'.
Will be calling MS this morning. In fact, MS re-assured me that I could convert cash to points (no mention of this being based on availability)...our family reunion is approaching the final stages and we were converting cash to points and cash this month.
Well, if it doesn't work out, we will be back on RCCL's Oasis of the Seas (just returned last Saturday).
I just think it is ashame the lack of DVC's communication to their customers...they think we are such 'mouse fanatics' that we don't mind being taken for granted.
I am a retiree from one of the automotive manufacturers....hmmm, they also took their customers for granted:snooty:...DVC take a lesson in their mistakes.:charac2:
 
That's kinda silly to say. Of course all accomodations are subject to availability. MaMinnie was clearly stating that DVC never stated that DVC had limited availability. After all she already has the accomodation with her cash reservation, so availability would not be an issue. If they had mentioned that she would be subject to DVC having ability then that would be different.

I was actually told to go out and book the cash cruise to get the category I want and then call back to change it to points (actually I was told to rebook it when we cruised in October and then call and transfer to points with a slight discount on the points). So I wasn't even asking if I could do this, I was told to go do it. This was after she looked to see if the category I wanted was available with points (and it wasn't).
It's been reported over the years that there were limits on the DVC availability though specifics have never been available but whether they stated it or whether the rules have changed really isn't applicable. I seem to recall reports over the years of cruises with cash availability but not points. Obviously there haven't been times when all availability vanished, at least that I know of. To me it's no different than points vs cash availability at DVC.

DVC does publish both that the program and terms are subject to change without notice AND that they are subject to availability. Even on the planner page it's right there in black or white. On the details page they state that cancellation guidelines are subject to change without notice and that any change is considered a cancelation and rebooking.

I'd direct you to the Member Benefits Guide on the Website. Here is the most applicable portion which clearly suggests there may be limits and blackout dates.

BLOCKOUT PERIODS; SPACES IN TRAVEL PROGRAMS ALLOCATED BY PROVIDERS DVD reserves the right, in its sole
discretion and without the consent of any DVC Member or Guest, to impose blockout periods for any Travel Program. If a blockout
period is imposed, reservations may not be made for the dates included in such blockout periods. DVD may be allocated a limited
number of spaces in particular Travel Program by the respective Travel Program Provider; however, DVC Members will compete
with other DVC Members in seeking and reserving this limited number of allocated spaces in the Travel Program. Once the limited
number of spaces in a particular Travel Program has been reserved by DVC Members, other DVC Members will have no priority
when requesting reservations for such accommodations and will compete with the general public in seeking and reserving spaces in
the Travel Program.
 

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