LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[grimley1968]

* I worry about a downward spiral. It's gradual but that is what I see now.
* I wouldn't likely dislike the whole concept of FP+ so much if there wasn't so many other things about WDW that disappoint me nowadays.
* It just seems to be another hassle in my eyes.
* I would give WDW very high ratings but I see a lot wrong and I've cut back my trips drastically.
* I never see anything to do with Frozen again I'll be very happy. Yes, I've had enough.
* ll buy that once those improvements are actually made. I keep on hearing about them but promises mean nothing. Will they do them right? Only time will tell.
* To me the glory years were when Epcot was new and shiny and amazing. It's so different now.

You come off as... certainly not very pro-Disney. This is just in the 2 most recent pages of your posts. You've obviously got thousands of pages worth but this took about 3 min to find and quote.

In none of those quotes did Planogirl say she "disliked WDW". One can point out one's negative opinions about certain aspects of WDW or how they are doing thing these days without "disliking" WDW. Speaking for myself, I still love WDW, but strongly dislike some of the things they are doing these days. Since you take notice of people's post counts, I will add that I've read some of Planogirl's previous 40k posts and none of them indicate to me that she "dislikes" WDW; only that she disapproves of some of what they're doing these days. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Planogirl]

* I worry about a downward spiral. It's gradual but that is what I see now.
* I wouldn't likely dislike the whole concept of FP+ so much if there wasn't so many other things about WDW that disappoint me nowadays.
* It just seems to be another hassle in my eyes.
* I would give WDW very high ratings but I see a lot wrong and I've cut back my trips drastically.
* I never see anything to do with Frozen again I'll be very happy. Yes, I've had enough.
* ll buy that once those improvements are actually made. I keep on hearing about them but promises mean nothing. Will they do them right? Only time will tell.
* To me the glory years were when Epcot was new and shiny and amazing. It's so different now.

You come off as not having much love there. This is just in the 2 most recent pages of your posts. You've obviously got thousands of pages worth but this took about 3 min to find and quote.

If I didn't care I wouldn't say any of those things, in fact I wouldn't even be here. What you see is disappointment not hate or even dislike. I still advise people on how to enjoy their trip without bringing up my feelings because they aren't relevant to that particular discussion. However in those posts you found those were answers to questions about how people feel about certain aspects of WDW. I won't hide what is true for me just to spare the feelings of those who don't agree or even those who don't know.

 

[Angel Ariel]

* I worry about a downward spiral. It's gradual but that is what I see now.
* I wouldn't likely dislike the whole concept of FP+ so much if there wasn't so many other things about WDW that disappoint me nowadays.
* It just seems to be another hassle in my eyes.
* I would give WDW very high ratings but I see a lot wrong and I've cut back my trips drastically.
* I never see anything to do with Frozen again I'll be very happy. Yes, I've had enough.
* ll buy that once those improvements are actually made. I keep on hearing about them but promises mean nothing. Will they do them right? Only time will tell.
* To me the glory years were when Epcot was new and shiny and amazing. It's so different now.

Maybe it's just my read, but you come off as not having much love there. This is just in the 2 most recent pages of your posts. You've obviously got thousands of pages worth but this took about 3 min to quote.

Having criticisms of something doesn't mean you don't love it. Often people can be most critical of the things they love the most precisely because it means so much to them.

 

[Laketravis]

Having criticisms of something doesn't mean you don't love it. Often people can be most critical of the things they love the most precisely because it means so much to them.

Another poster in another thread recently summed it up quite nicely (I'll leave it as anonymous to avoid cross-thread pollution):

"Those that criticize Disney are often the longest, most well Informed, biggest fundamental fans of Disney...and often the most loyal, high spending patrons.

They want it to get better and build its legacy... But don't support quick buck strategies and decisions that are suspect to longterm brand erosion...

Like the villians dessert reception inside the not so scary Halloween party... Or transforming a Scandinavian country in the educational park to a fictitious pseudo Russian kingdom with ice monsters and cuddly talking snowmen.

That's the truth and it's always countered with name spewing."


.

 

[MrInfinity]

Another poster in another thread recently summed it up quite nicely (I'll leave it as anonymous to avoid cross-thread pollution):

"Those that criticize Disney are often the longest, most well Informed, biggest fundamental fans of Disney...and often the most loyal, high spending patrons.

They want it to get better and build its legacy... But don't support quick buck strategies and decisions that are suspect to longterm brand erosion...

Like the villians dessert reception inside the not so scary Halloween party... Or transforming a Scandinavian country in the educational park to a fictitious pseudo Russian kingdom with ice monsters and cuddly talking snowmen.

Wow so by presenting this quote you're trying to quantify who is a "bigger fan" by how critical they are of Disney! This just gets better and better. So tell me. You and Plano criticize Disney regularly. Much more than me I'd say. Would you say you are the bigger fundamental fan than me? More loyal perhaps?

 

[Angel Ariel]

I don't think anyone is trying to say who is a "bigger fan" than who. Just emphasizing the point that criticizing Disney doesn't mean one doesn't *also* love Disney.

 

[SmithSmith]

Another poster in another thread recently summed it up quite nicely (I'll leave it as anonymous to avoid cross-thread pollution):

"Those that criticize Disney are often the longest, most well Informed, biggest fundamental fans of Disney...and often the most loyal, high spending patrons.

They want it to get better and build its legacy... But don't support quick buck strategies and decisions that are suspect to longterm brand erosion...

Like the villians dessert reception inside the not so scary Halloween party... Or transforming a Scandinavian country in the educational park to a fictitious pseudo Russian kingdom with ice monsters and cuddly talking snowmen.

That's the truth and it's always countered with name spewing."


.

I noticed that you left out the last sentence from that post:

If you notice: the "negatives" rarely if ever throw personal insults or derogatory quips... That's what the pixie pounders do (as a real time example)

Was that because you don't agree with it?

 

[MrInfinity]

Having criticisms of something doesn't mean you don't love it. Often people can be most critical of the things they love the most precisely because it means so much to them.

Hi Ariel,
I never said Plano doesn't love it. I said she comes off as if she doesn't based on what she says in the forums. While she did not use the precise words "I dislike WDW" she did say she thinks it's in a downward spiral, she completely dislikes the whole concept of FP+, there are so many other things that disappoint her about WDW, she does not give it very high ratings, (I mean, that right there-- how could you claim you love something if you self-proclaimed do not give it very high ratings) she has cut back her trips drastically as a result, she is skeptical of improvements to come, and thinks Epcot is not only "not amazing", but "so different" from that - frowny face. She may very well love it there, but just describe it regularly using words like those?

And I only quoted those at all because she asked the direct question: Did I say anywhere in my posts that I dislike WDW? So being one to not evade a question, I answered - yes. I see lots of places in your posts where you talk about ways in which you dislike WDW.

 

[cakebaker]

I don't think anyone is trying to say who is a "bigger fan" than who. Just emphasizing the point that criticizing Disney doesn't mean one doesn't *also* love Disney.

"Those that criticize Disney are often the longest, most well Informed, biggest fundamental fans of Disney...and often the most loyal, high spending patrons."



I think that's exactly what that quote was doing. It's pretty clearly written. I hardly agree with it, but that's what the OP thought apparently. I see no point in trying to quantify who the bigger fan is, but they did.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Hi Ariel,
I never said Plano doesn't love it. I said she comes off as if she doesn't based on what she says in the forums.

I disagree with the correlation between criticizing Disney and "coming off as" not loving Disney. When I read posts from posters here who have clearly spent a lot of time on the boards and at Disney and they make posts criticizing Disney, it "comes off" to *me* as Disney must be very important to them, and that the criticism comes from a place of wanting Disney to be better. In no way does it "come off" to me as it meaning they dislike Disney.

Personally, I find the whole questioning whether or not she loves Disney as no better than the "are you a Disney exec" type statements that can go the other way. It really comes off as quite rude to me (both of those statements do).

 

[Laketravis]

Frankly I don't care if anyone agrees with the quote or not. I simply referenced it because it clearly contrasts the "you don't love Disney if you criticize it" view.


.

 

[MrInfinity]

Frankly I don't care if anyone agrees with the quote or not. I simply referenced it because it clearly contrasts the "you don't love Disney if you criticize it" view.

So do you agree w the quote or not?

You posted it. Presumably you agree w it, else if you don't, then clearly it would not contrast the point you use it as evidence for. So you agree w the quote then? Or do you disagree? Or did you just post a random quote that you have no opinion on, and use that as backup to your point?

Do you feel that you are a bigger fan of WDW, or more loyal than someone less critical, like say me?

Let me get this straight. You quoted someone, to make a point. But you don't care who agrees w the quote, and you wont say if even you agree w the quote. But you'll take it as backup, whether or not you or anyone believes it.

 

[Laketravis]

So do you agree w the quote or not? You posted it. So presumably you agree w it, else if you do not agree w it then clearly it would not contrast the point you use it as evidence for. So you agree w the quote then? Or do you disagree? Or did you just post a random quote that you have no opinion on, and use that as backup to your point?

Let me get this straight. You quoted someone, to make a point. But you don't care who agrees w the quote, and you wont say if even you agree w the quote. But you'll take it as backup, whether or not you or anyone believes it.

Are you being argumentative solely to be argumentative or did you just not read this:

"I simply referenced it because it clearly contrasts the "you don't love Disney if you criticize it" view."


.

 

[MrInfinity]

Are you being argumentative solely to be argumentative or did you just not read this:

"I simply referenced it because it clearly contrasts the "you don't love Disney if you criticize it" view."

You're avoiding the question. Do you agree w the quote or not?

 

[Laketravis]

You're avoiding the question. Do you agree w the quote or not?

Do you understand the concept of not having a position but simply referencing an opposing view?

I'm about to leave for the airport, get on a plane, and go to WDW. And you're not. Does that mean you don't love WDW?


.

 

[MrInfinity]

Do you understand the concept of not having a position but simply referencing an opposing view?

I'm about to leave for the airport, get on a plane, and go to WDW. And you're not. Does that mean you don't love WDW?

You presented a quote, to make a case and back up a point. I'm just asking if you agree w the quote you quoted, or if you disagree with it. You are welcome to post it and state you disagree w it, that would be fine. I'm just saying that unless you state whether you agree or not, then posting it is meaningless. So do you agree w it?

Or, just ignore it, or redirect. And we can conclude that you'll quote things, but not say if you are using the quote because you support it's view, disagree w its view, or it was just a random thing you thought would add confrontation.

Have fun!

 

[Laketravis]

Fuzzy, here's the deal - you can ask all the questions you want. But nobody owes you an answer.

You know I'll have fun. It's Disney World.

See ya real soon!


.

 

[flicx]

Fuzzy, here's the deal - you can ask all the questions you want. But nobody owes you an answer.

You know I'll have fun. It's Disney World.

See ya real soon!


.

Have a good trip lake!

 

[Luckybee]

I think you mix up "everything is perfect" with a genuine love of Disney World. If someone is going to WDW, then there are a few things that are a given. 1) they are expecting crowds. 2) they are expecting lines. 3) they are very much expecting, despite 1) and 2), to have a great time.

You approach it as if you need to tell people about the lines, the waits, the sucky CMs, the dirty bathrooms, the food that's gone downhill, and the hold times for tech support, so that when they go, they do not go into it expecting clean bathrooms and happy CMs. But that is just not what most people take away from Disney World. Maybe you do. But for someone w 40,000 posts, I have a hard time believing you like it so little there.

Most people have magical interactions w CMs, find the bathrooms to be worlds better than any other theme park bathrooms, find the new Rapunzel tower to be inspiring, and find SDMT to be exciting for their kids. They wait in some lines like they expect, and they use FP+ to skip a few. When you ask why they like Disney World but not most other theme parks, they will almost always tell you how "it's just different".

You seem to mistake helping them get a better experience with "lowering their expectations because it's not as good as they're led to believe". I -- have gotten nothing but sunshine on my trips. And when it rains? Rainbows. I go to WDW because it's fun. I don't see why you have such a hard time with people actually liking it there. You pretty much say ppl are being disingenuous if they claim to have had a good time. Unless you found something to complain about, you're just sunshine and rainbows. Or you work for Disney. That's so bogus.

See that's where we differ. If I am assisting someone in planning a first trip to Disney I dont agree that they are expecting long lines and crowds to the extent that one now sees at WDW. I also don't think that Disney is all sunshine and rainbows. If one goes in with those expectations imho they are likely to come out disappointed. If however they go in with what you would call "lower expectaions" (I would call them realistic) I think there is a higher chance of them having a good time. Perhaps it is just a matter of personality types but I find if one sets the bar too high then the drop is not pleasant. Let me give you an example. A few years ago prior to going to Ny city we wanted to try Daniel since we had friends rave about it. We made a reservation and the same friends raved and raved and we went in expecting to have our socks blown off. We had a very pleasant meal but walked out saying " it was ok". Dh and I have talked about it since. It wasnt the best meal we ever had, but certainly it was very very good. The service was excellent. We would go back. There was absolutely nothing for us to have been disappointed in yet we felt there was something missing. When we really analyzed it the only thing that was wrong were our expectations. Because of our friends comments we expected this to be the best restaurant ever, and it wasnt that. Still very enjoyable, and very very good but had we gone in with lower expectations we would have had a better night overall and maybe would have raved about it ourselves. I dont know if I can explain our perspective better than that.
I have spoken to far too many people who have come back from Disney complaining about disappointing trips some justified, some with things that wouldnt have necessarily bothered me, but bothered them . The common thread always seems to be unrealistic expectations partially because of the marketing by Disney themselves, in some cases because of total cluelessness by the person, and in others because they had been told by others of "magical trips" that would be all "sunshine and rainbows" and imho one isnt doing anyone a service promoting Disney in that manner !

 

[Luckybee]

You presented a quote, to make a case and back up a point. I'm just asking if you agree w the quote you quoted, or if you disagree with it. You are welcome to post it and state you disagree w it, that would be fine. I'm just saying that unless you state whether you agree or not, then posting it is meaningless. So do you agree w it?

Or, just ignore it, or redirect. And we can conclude that you'll quote things, but not say if you are using the quote because you support it's view, disagree w its view, or it was just a random thing you thought would add confrontation.

Have fun!

Does it really matter ?? Really? I think his point was that one can state that they are not happy with all things Disney and still love Disney. Thought that was obvious. Perhaps not