Just back and my feelings on Saratoga Springs

[Inkmahm]

So by this reasoning, if someone is concerned that SSR is affecting availability at other resorts, they should be playing up SSR instead of criticizing it. Hmmmm......you might be on to something.

Exactly!

I'm still a very new DVC owner and too excited to be able to stay at my three home resorts to even consider switching to one I don't own. BUT, I will switch some day and try the others. I plan to be going to WDW several times each year for years to come. At some point in the future I'm sure I'll switch to one of the other resorts at the 7 month mark. I love Disney in general so I can't imagine that there's a resort of DVC level that I would hate. There may be one that I love a bit less than another, but still, it's DISNEY. I'm just happy to be there!

 

[Dean]

I'm also sure this is done like a public owned company - you vote your points. And I'm guessing that between resales in ROFR Disney could snatch up, current developer holdings for points, and Disney employee owned points - you'd have to get about 80-90% of the "public" owned points to vote out DVC. Which isn't going to happen. Heck, you'd probably have 20-30% non-vote to start with.

Chris

I'd have to think about this. It's actually voted by a unit, which is a group of rooms. I'm not sure if DVD could vote what they own as the developer, I'd have to look at the info further to figure out what the limits are in that area.

 

[Dean]

Cant believe this thread is still going....

Ok everyone....suck it up....
Everyone plays by the same rules....

If someone buys in and dosent know the rules....SHAME ON YOU....
stop blaming your guide.....READ YOUR PAPERWORK....

Bottom line.....everyone is different.....everyone likes different
places.....which is why dvc is great....lots of choices....

If someone dosent get their home resort at 7 months.....
because "someone else"...got THEIR ROOM...AT THEIR RESORT.....
TOOOOOOOO BAAAAAAD.....
Stop whining.....and go where there is availability....
OR SELL YOUR DVC.....obviously not a good choice for you.....
Peace
Kerri

I don't disagree with anything at all you said other than the implication that SSR isn't a different animal, it is. I was thinking just today. I would guess that in the range of 90% of owners at BCV, BWV, VWL prefer to stay at their home resort most of the time. And when they don't, many want one of the others in that group. It might be a little lower for BWV given it's a little larger and there are other resorts that came after. I'd guess maybe 60-70% for OKW in large part due to lower points and the GV there that are cheaper but it could be lower. I'd be surprised if it were 50% for SSR. That's a lot of points to deal with at 7 months out. Think of it like walking in to a fast food restaurant just after a busload of teenagers rolled in.

 

[Sammie]

I don't disagree with anything at all you said other than the implication that SSR isn't a different animal, it is. I was thinking just today. I would guess that in the range of 90% of owners at BCV, BWV, VWL prefer to stay at their home resort most of the time. And when they don't, many want one of the others in that group. It might be a little lower for BWV given it's a little larger and there are other resorts that came after. I'd guess maybe 60-70% for OKW in large part due to lower points and the GV there that are cheaper but it could be lower. I'd be surprised if it were 50% for SSR. That's a lot of points to deal with at 7 months out. Think of it like walking in to a fast food restaurant just after a busload of teenagers rolled in.

Strickly opinion though. My opinion would differ. I truly do not think that the precentage of SSR owners trading out is that high. It might be at the beginning but that is simply due to the fact the new owners want to experience everything.

However as we all know, at 11 to 8 months, the BCV, BWV and VWL, are only competing with their own members and after that it is a moot point. So even if it is that high, it is not affecting the home advantage.

I would say anyone unhappy with that, will never be satisfied with DVC.

 

[Slakk]

I don't disagree with anything at all you said other than the implication that SSR isn't a different animal, it is. I was thinking just today. I would guess that in the range of 90% of owners at BCV, BWV, VWL prefer to stay at their home resort most of the time. And when they don't, many want one of the others in that group. It might be a little lower for BWV given it's a little larger and there are other resorts that came after. I'd guess maybe 60-70% for OKW in large part due to lower points and the GV there that are cheaper but it could be lower. I'd be surprised if it were 50% for SSR. That's a lot of points to deal with at 7 months out. Think of it like walking in to a fast food restaurant just after a busload of teenagers rolled in.

I own at BCV, HHI and VWL (soon AKV) and prefer SSR so add me to the 10%. We like staying everywhere and are not really attached although so far I prefer SSR and VWL.

 

[BroganMc]

So by this reasoning, if someone is concerned that SSR is affecting availability at other resorts, they should be playing up SSR instead of criticizing it. Hmmmm......you might be on to something.

You don't have to go that far. Just refraining from bickering with a resort's supporters would be sufficient, I think.

So many of these long threads go on because when a supporter states an opinion (or offers a factoid in support), there are 2-3 others jumping in to disagree or devalue the factoid's influence. (The "yeah it's only .25 miles but that's outside in the elements and it feels far longer" responses.)

FWIW, I agree with Crisi's proposal that the more negativity a resort gets the less newcomers want to try it. How many new buyers, renters or other resort owners have stated concerns and retractions when a resort is bashed?

Resort supporters aren't arguing that it is the "best", but rather that a resort is a good place (for some because of X reason). They all have their merits. BCV has SAB, BWV has the Boardwalk, and SSR has its walkways and DTD access.

 

[Dean]

Strickly opinion though. My opinion would differ. I truly do not think that the precentage of SSR owners trading out is that high.

I feel it's the other way. That new members are far more likely to try their home resort initially, maybe the first 1-2 trips, then are MORE likely to trade out after that. I think most newer members have some idea they'd like to see, and possibly stay, at all resorts over time. The issue and point of my post you responded to was "what is their main goal". HH and VB are likely less than 30%, possibly less than to 10%.

 

[alldiz]

Ya know it's funny.....

I was dyin to get my WLV points to close to get
the much coveted christmas ressie....

Turns out....my 1st trip will be to SSR.....yes it was the only one
available....BUT THAT IS OK.....I'm just so happy to go

Wound up wanting to try f&w fest...so i booked oct...
Turns out I might need to cancel my oct ressie...at WLV...
I might get pregnant....
Which means.....i bought WLV...and wont stay at my
home resort for probably almost 2yrs....

All good......I personally plan on trying every dvc.....so i know
where i want to add on
peace
kerri

 

[Dean]

I own at BCV, HHI and VWL (soon AKV) and prefer SSR so add me to the 10%. We like staying everywhere and are not really attached although so far I prefer SSR and VWL.

You don't own at SSR? Unless you actually plan to use the BCV points at SSR most of the time, you wouldn't fit into the 10% as I posted it.

 

[Dean]

Ya know it's funny.....

I was dyin to get my WLV points to close to get
the much coveted christmas ressie....

Turns out....my 1st trip will be to SSR.....yes it was the only one
available....BUT THAT IS OK.....I'm just so happy to go

Wound up wanting to try f&w fest...so i booked oct...
Turns out I might need to cancel my oct ressie...at WLV...
I might get pregnant....
Which means.....i bought WLV...and wont stay at my
home resort for probably almost 2yrs....

All good......I personally plan on trying every dvc.....so i know
where i want to add on
peace
kerri

My post was about intentions, for actual stays, the numbers will vary from intentions quite a lot, esp where SSR & OKW are concerned. I'd guess your situation of not being able to get where you intended but got SSR instead will be a common one. We called yesterday for 4 nights in June or July. For the 3 weeks checked, Sun-Thurs, only SSR was open for any of them and it was available for all the weeks we checked. OKW was actually our primary focus for this reservation.

 

[castleri]

You don't own at SSR? Unless you actually plan to use the BCV points at SSR most of the time, you wouldn't fit into the 10% as I posted it.

Dean- I own at OKW, SSR and BCV(purchased presale for DVC members as a new contract not an add on) - Called at 7 months to book SSR using the BCV points for Sept. Did not even ask about availability at BCV. Where does this fit me into your post. We have not used the BCV points for a stay there in over 3 years. Love the resort (after OKW that is) but it just hasn't been the one we wanted to stay at for the past 6 trips or so. The intent when purchased was to stay at BCV but now I see it as being able to use the points to stay at OKW or SSR most often.

 

[loribell]

My post was about intentions, for actual stays, the numbers will vary from intentions quite a lot, esp where SSR & OKW are concerned. I'd guess your situation of not being able to get where you intended but got SSR instead will be a common one. We called yesterday for 4 nights in June or July. For the 3 weeks checked, Sun-Thurs, only SSR was open for any of them and it was available for all the weeks we checked. OKW was actually our primary focus for this reservation.

When new buildings are completed aren't they then put in the system for bookings? I believe that may also be part of the reason that rooms were available for June. If new buildings had just been released there would definetly be availability.

I know that when I booked 4 weeks ago, intentionally - did not ask about availability anywhere else, that I could not request the Grandstand. When I called back to change our rooms to a 2 bedroom last week I was able to request the Grandstand.

 

[crisi]

Dean- I own at OKW, SSR and BCV(purchased presale for DVC members as a new contract not an add on) - Called at 7 months to book SSR using the BCV points for Sept. Did not even ask about availability at BCV. Where does this fit me into your post. We have not used the BCV points for a stay there in over 3 years. Love the resort (after OKW that is) but it just hasn't been the one we wanted to stay at for the past 6 trips or so. The intent when purchased was to stay at BCV but now I see it as being able to use the points to stay at OKW or SSR most often.

I suspect you are unusual - but not alone.

I don't think BCV points are selling at a premium so that BCV owners can stay at OKW, BWV, WVL, SSR, HH OR VB or trade out for cruises or go to Tanque Verde. I suspect BCV points are selling at a premium because people who buy there want to stay there - probably more than any of the other resorts. Otherwise, there is an economic incentive to sell the points - dues are relatively high, and you'll break even given the premium after closing costs and commissions if you sell BCV and buy the cheaper in both purchase price and dues OKW.

But its a generalization, and as valuable as any generalization. There are almost certainly BCV owners who never stay there and never intend to go back. There are certainly SSR owners who never want to stay anywhere other than SSR.

But in aggregate, I personally find it highly unlikely that - given the number of SSR members and the much smaller number of BCV members plus the economies of the situation - there are numerically more BCV owners wanting to stay SSR than SSR owners wanting to stay at BCVs. I don't believe for a second that the first number is zero, nor do I believe the second proportion is 100% - and I don't think anyone has ever said such a thing seriously.

 

[Dean]

Where does this fit me into your post.

I'm not sure it does. My statements were related to long term plans of points usage, not to a single trip. I'm sure there will be exceptions, I know some who own BCV, BWV & VWL who plan to never stay there. My thoughts are related to the overall aggregate so a single or even a handful of posters who state they are an exception really mean nothing overall. In spite of what many would like to think, the number of posters over the last few years that have posted they bought SSR just to have points in DVC is FAR more than the combined number of similar posters I've seen here with the same idea for any other resorts. HH and VB also act as points reservoirs as I hinted at above. Crisi is absolutely correct in that the resale prices reflect demand for those contracts for a reason.

When new buildings are completed aren't they then put in the system for bookings? I believe that may also be part of the reason that rooms were available for June. If new buildings had just been released there would definetly be availability.

Not really. DVC must first enter a "unit" into the system before they can sell it. A unit at SSR will be a collection of a few rooms usually on a single floor. It's true they might be a little ahead and thus a minor "surplus" but the same can be said for the 2-4% that DVC owns at OKW or other resorts which is likely a larger availability than this minor surplus would be. And once you're inside the 7 month window, anyone who'd prefer to stay there would take those units up and free up other ones in the system if they truly preferred SSR.

 

[mwmuntz]

I'm not sure it does. My statements were related to long term plans of points usage, not to a single trip. I'm sure there will be exceptions, I know some who own BCV, BWV & VWL who plan to never stay there. My thoughts are related to the overall aggregate so a single or even a handful of posters who state they are an exception really mean nothing overall. In spite of what many would like to think, the number of posters over the last few years that have posted they bought SSR just to have points in DVC is FAR more than the combined number of similar posters I've seen here with the same idea for any other resorts. HH and VB also act as points reservoirs as I hinted at above. Crisi is absolutely correct in that the resale prices reflect demand for those contracts for a reason.

My THEORY on this (and it's just a theory), so please be gentle.

When Disney first built OKW, most people bought in because of the concept of DVC, and not so much the theming. Yes, the fact that it was/still is a beautiful resort with lots of great amenities helped a lot, but people were more into the idea of Disney's implementation of a timeshare on Disney property. As time went on, owners started to love their resort with a passion, and OKW & DVC really took off.

Disney then needed to expand DVC, so they added on to existing resorts, namely BWV, VWL & BCV. Now, you had a whole different breed of prospective owners. They were tapping into folks who have already stayed at these resorts and really loved them. People who already had fond memories of the place, and perhaps had started some family traditions. Now theming & location & everything else that is argued about here became a lot more important, and contributed more to the decision making process than before with OKW.

Now along comes SSR. Even though SSR is built on the old DI property, it is pretty much brand new. There was no Saratoga Springs Inn, no Saratoga Springs Lodge. The majority of the people who are buying into SSR never stayed there before. Some have bought in without even seeing it first! So I think (key word is think), that we are going back to the OKW days where people are buying more into the DVC concept & not so much the SSR theme. And it appears that Disney is marketing it that way too. So yes, there are a lot of SSR owners who are buying just to get into the system. Some of them might already have a love for one of the other resorts, but are not aware that you can still buy into them via resale or wait list. They may think that SSR (or AKV) is their only choice. BUT, just like OKW, SSR is a beautiful resort, and as more & more people stay there, we are seeing that it is starting to get it's own band of rabid followers.

 

[Beca]

My THEORY on this (and it's just a theory), so please be gentle.

When Disney first built OKW, most people bought in because of the concept of DVC, and not so much the theming. Yes, the fact that it was/still is a beautiful resort with lots of great amenities helped a lot, but people were more into the idea of Disney's implementation of a timeshare on Disney property. As time went on, owners started to love their resort with a passion, and OKW & DVC really took off.

Disney then needed to expand DVC, so they added on to existing resorts, namely BWV, VWL & BCV. Now, you had a whole different breed of prospective owners. They were tapping into folks who have already stayed at these resorts and really loved them. People wo already had fond memories of the place, and perhaps had started some family traditions. Now theming & location & everything else that is agued about here became a lot more important, and contributed more to the decision making process than before with OKW.

Now along comes SSR. Even though SSR is built on the old DI property, it is pretty much brand new. There was no Saratoga Springs Inn, no Saratoga Springs Lodge. The majority of the people who are buying into SSR never stayed there before. Some have bought in without even seeing it first! So I think (key word is think), that we are going back to the OKW days where people are buying more into the DVC concept & not so much the SSR theme. nd it appears that Disney is marketing it that way too. So yes, there are a lot of SSR owners who are buying just to get into the system. Some of them might already have a love for one of the other resorts, but are not aware that you can still buy into them via resale or wait list. They may think that SSR (or AKV) is their only choice. BUT, just like OKW, SSR is a beautiful resort, and as moe & more people stay there, we are seeing that it is starting to get it's own band of rabid followers.

Excellent theory!!! I think you probably exactly right!!!

 

[crisi]

Good theory - though BWV was built integral to the resort and didn't have the "brand loyalty" to sell the resort - like VWL or BCV or AKV does. But I think you have at least one of the variables at play - and we certainly found that there was a certain brand loyalty when AKV went on sale (or the folks lobbying for the CRV - or anyone - and there are lots of them - who really are dreaming of DVC at the Poly). And you are right, SSR will establish that over time - for a variety of reasons.

We are loyal BWV owners - but it isn't my favorite DVC resort - I like VWL, so does my husband. However, BWV is home, we are content there, its "our" resort, switching at seven months is a hassle (we are October travellers, so its a real hassle), we get standard view rooms at the Boardwalk - in short - its EASIER to just not switch. Did I anticipate this pattern when we bought? No. I thought we'd try all the DVC resorts. That will happen with SSR too (probably already has), people will fall into habits. Now, I may be atypical, but I bet I'm not unique.....

 

[Dean]

My THEORY on this (and it's just a theory), so please be gentle.

When Disney first built OKW, most people bought in because of the concept of DVC, and not so much the theming. Yes, the fact that it was/still is a beautiful resort with lots of great amenities helped a lot, but people were more into the idea of Disney's implementation of a timeshare on Disney property. As time went on, owners started to love their resort with a passion, and OKW & DVC really took off.

Disney then needed to expand DVC, so they added on to existing resorts, namely BWV, VWL & BCV. Now, you had a whole different breed of prospective owners. They were tapping into folks who have already stayed at these resorts and really loved them. People wo already had fond memories of the place, and perhaps had started some family traditions. Now theming & location & everything else that is agued about here became a lot more important, and contributed more to the decision making process than before with OKW.

Now along comes SSR. Even though SSR is built on the old DI property, it is pretty much brand new. There was no Saratoga Springs Inn, no Saratoga Springs Lodge. The majority of the people who are buying into SSR never stayed there before. Some have bought in without even seeing it first! So I think (key word is think), that we are going back to the OKW days where people are buying more into the DVC concept & not so much the SSR theme. nd it appears that Disney is marketing it that way too. So yes, there are a lot of SSR owners who are buying just to get into the system. Some of them might already have a love for one of the other resorts, but are not aware that you can still buy into them via resale or wait list. They may think that SSR (or AKV) is their only choice. BUT, just like OKW, SSR is a beautiful resort, and as moe & more people stay there, we are seeing that it is starting to get it's own band of rabid followers.

Not much to argue with here. I'd suggest that the SSR owners are different overall than the original DVC (now OKW) buyers in terms of your post but I think you have a pretty clear picture of things, and not much different than I've posted many times. SSR buyers are an eclectic group, essentially the same as current OKW resale owners. This group includes those that prefer SSR, those that want to buy from DVC directly for whatever reason including comfort and financing, those that think it's cheaper and those that think the later expiration is of value to them over other options. None of these are wrong are bad reasons to buy depending on one's circumstances. One correction is that BWV and BWI were built as one unit and really the BWI is more of a addition to the DVC there than the reverse.

 

[Slakk]

You don't own at SSR? Unless you actually plan to use the BCV points at SSR most of the time, you wouldn't fit into the 10% as I posted it.

Actually I just sold my SSR contract not because I do not like SSR but because I want to have only 50 point or lower contracts and my initial purchase was 160/ Although we love WDW and DVC it will make it easier later to disburse should we choose.

We currently own 100 VWL, 50 HHI, 50 BCV and about to purchase 100 AKV. The thought behind AKV is we would like to try conceirge and the only way we will is to own their. HHI is new - we are 4 hours away and love it so we plan to do a 5 day stay once a year in the early summer.

But most of our DVC stays will be split between VWL and SSR - while I like the convenience of Epcot we are more MK people and the bus situation at BCV is not our cup of tea and BWVs endless hallways are not my style. We also like quick serve and love DTD so those two resorts really are our favorites.

We have two VWL trips scheduled (one was chosen by my family for a reunion I am footing the bill for) and then we plan to do a SSR again. We have yet to use our BCV points at BCV (although we have only had them 2 years) and we may do so at some time but it is not on my to do list. Actually VB and OKW are more interesting to me -

I think that puts me in the 10% club.

 

[Dean]

I think that puts me in the 10% club.

Maybe, it depends on how you use your BCV and VWL points over time. Still you prove your belief in the issue that you can get in to SSR with anything. Your approach also is in line with my belief that AKV will have more value over time than SSR.

I'd add that add ons are a different breed that likely don't fit well into any of this discussion.