Idea to improve DAS

[lovethattink]

About getting up for rope drop - we all have to get up early for that to grab that all important first FP, so I'm not sure what the issue here is either?

Some have needs that make this impossible, I think that may be what the issue there is.

My son has seizures in his sleep nightly. His mornings are slow starting and at his pace. He's homeschooled because of this.

Presently, he can't ride many of the attractions. But if he could, DAS would be his only shot of getting on one where FP are gone early.

 

[Southerndisney]

cmwade77, thank you for posting this thread and taking the time to respond to so many posts. It is funny that the people that have doubts about your proposal are mostly responsible for keeping your thread towards the top of this forum, which encourages more people to read your proposal. I do not know if your proposal is something that Disney would consider, but I do appreciate people that look for solutions to problems. I believe Disney will change the DAS and it is important that people that have experienced problems with the current DAS write or speak to Guest Relations so that issues may be resolved.

 

[mistysue]

The system I suggested in my OP does limit the instant gratification to the first attraction of the day only...

Since you would still be waiting after each ride, there is no true immediate access.

I dont agree that you still wait. The reality is that (lets pretend you dont need to wait for a vehicle, that changes the whole thing) you arrive at the ride-they write down a 30 minute wait. You ride, walk to your next ride and either walk slowly or maybe wait 5 mins when you get there. At this point, you enter the line for ride #2. As you are entering the line, the person who went through standby on the first ride is just BOARDING ride #1. By the time they ride and travel to ride #2, they are about 15 minutes behind you. You are boarding ride #2 when they are just getting in line. You "wait" 5 minutes, they waited 30 that is not equal. That is not fair, it is nothing but advantage.
By starting your time when you enter the fp line the fp time counts toward your wait, which it should, but you also get to include the time you are on the ride, the time you unboard and the time you travel to the next ride. That is neither equal nor fair. I cant get to TSM and say "no, but it took me 20 minutes to walk here, so I get to skip the first 20 minutes of line". They would laugh at me.

Its not that I dont get that people have complications. We have been cut off from shows because we had to park a stroller and get a child out (and suddenly you might care if you know he has a genetic abnormality and severe hypotonia), we have missed fastpasses because of waiting for a chef due to allergies, we have sat outside the park for an hour because DD didnt believe it was Disney- everybody, whether from a disability or not is going to have hurdles to overcome on a trip. So give some pixie dust but it doesnt mean a large group should skip EVERY line. The proposed wait after would only be fair if they added to the line wait, something like "60 minute wait +7 minute ride + 10 minute walk = 77 minute return. But then it gets too complex and people would bicker about walking speeds.

 

[aaarcher86]

Someone posted in the WDW thread that TSM had a 120 minute wait with 10 min to park closing and they we're let right into the FP line.

 

[AndreaA]

I dont agree that you still wait. The reality is that (lets pretend you dont need to wait for a vehicle, that changes the whole thing) you arrive at the ride-they write down a 30 minute wait. You ride, walk to your next ride and either walk slowly or maybe wait 5 mins when you get there. At this point, you enter the line for ride #2. As you are entering the line, the person who went through standby on the first ride is just BOARDING ride #1. By the time they ride and travel to ride #2, they are about 15 minutes behind you. You are boarding ride #2 when they are just getting in line. You "wait" 5 minutes, they waited 30 that is not equal. That is not fair, it is nothing but advantage.

But people with a DAS are ALREADY being allowed to enter immediately if the wait is less than 10-15min (and that might easily be changed to 30 to match Universal) and are already having 10min subtracted from the wait time. So chances are that the perceived time advantage of DAS vs the proposed system would be pretty much equal. I say perceived because let's face it, the average DAS user is probably going to be stuck in a longer than 10min FP line at least a few times a day (heck, we just went in September - the SLOW time - and between having to talk to multiple CMs in the line, and waiting for those in front of us, including wheelchair users, we rarely waited less than 10min), and, particularly at DL, they will be forced to do a lot more walking which could easily put them at their DAS attraction after their return time. The main difference would be that it would keep disabled people from having to go in circles or having the party separate while picking up DAS times (particularly in DL) and dramatically help those who are cognitively disabled and can't understand why they can't ride right then.

And I've said this in other threads on the matter, but I will say it again for the record. The current DAS system would not impact me or my family. Our biggest thing is that our son currently cannot handle the interactive queues at many rides. It's too much for him, so we have to use an alternate entrance even if the wait time is only 10 minutes long. I said in another thread that he completely freaked out at the TSMM queue, and that is when I acquired a GAC for him. We go at slow times when waits are often 15 or less, so with the current system we would be ushered right in and for those rides that did have longer waits, my son would be easily distracted and we could wait elsewhere. Not everyone is so lucky.

 

[mistysue]

But people with a DAS are ALREADY being allowed to enter immediately if the wait is less than 10-15min (and that might easily be changed to 30 to match Universal) and are already having 10min subtracted from the wait time. So chances are that the perceived time advantage of DAS vs the proposed system would be pretty much equal. I say perceived because let's face it, the average DAS user is probably going to be stuck in a longer than 10min FP line at least a few times a day (heck, we just went in September - the SLOW time - and between having to talk to multiple CMs in the line, and waiting for those in front of us, including wheelchair users, we rarely waited less than 10min), and, particularly at DL, they will be forced to do a lot more walking which could easily put them at their DAS attraction after their return time. The main difference would be that it would keep disabled people from having to go in circles or having the party separate while picking up DAS times (particularly in DL) and dramatically help those who are cognitively disabled and can't understand why they can't ride right then.

People who abuse (or just overuse) the system do so for the headliners. There isn't a huge rush on DAS cards to get into Haunted mansion or living with the land in Sept. That "perceived advantage" is where abuse comes from- abuse both by people who don't need any assistance and people who need some assistance taking everything they can argue for. Seeing that people randomly walk into the Soarin' FP line and then can immediately go on with the short wait rides, meanwhile the person looking for a way to get out of the 120 minute line completely wastes 2 hours of their day before boarding and moving on... it would be infuriating to anybody. Either way, it's not fair to the person who has to stand in line, but they at least have this perception of "ok, I don't get on the ride immediately, but neither do they." It cuts back on the unfair advantage to those who don't NEED immediate access. It is not for anybody here to decide, but there are certainly people who qualify for a DAS and could get by without it, and then there are people who can not. In time, I'm sure Disney will figure out a way to meet everybody's needs. I think unfortunately a stage in that is getting people who CAN take more responsibility for their own touring to do so. GAC became a crutch for some people, endangering the effectiveness of the program for those who could not function without it. The proposed system is so close to the GAC that for those who are not completely dependent on it, it is essentially the same.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I am from the UK and I don't have an issue showing medical evidence to get my DAS and also to raise the credibility of the system. Is it the American law that makes this difficult? We can do this in the UK at our theme parks. That way no matter what system is implemented there is less resentment because other folks know those with a DAS card are genuine. You really can't judge by sight somebodies disability. Even when you have one yourself I know not of other folks plight like I have no idea of how hard it must be with a child with autism.

 

[aaarcher86]

I am from the UK and I don't have an issue showing medical evidence to get my DAS and also to raise the credibility of the system. Is it the American law that makes this difficult? We can do this in the UK at our theme parks. That way no matter what system is implemented there is less resentment because other folks know those with a DAS card are genuine. You really can't judge by sight somebodies disability. Even when you have one yourself I know not of other folks plight like I have no idea of how hard it must be with a child with autism.

Yes, it's the American system. Disney can not ask for or require medical proof. I think lots of people would happily supply it if that were an option. I think Disney refuses proof when offered to avoid word spreading that a doctors note helped them receive accommodations and getting into a situation that looks like, or can be interpreted that they require that.

I could easily see someone not providing documentation (because they don't have to) and being denied a DAS while overhearing the next person showing proof and receiving the DAS and then making a giant stink about it.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

Yes, it's the American system. Disney can not ask for or require medical proof. I think lots of people would happily supply it if that were an option. I think Disney refuses proof when offered to avoid word spreading that a doctors note helped them receive accommodations and getting into a situation that looks like, or can be interpreted that they require that. I could easily see someone not providing documentation (because they don't have to) and being denied a DAS while overhearing the next person showing proof and receiving the DAS and then making a giant stink about it.

i see thank you. Yes I think if it's the American system then Disney is right to just not look at anyone's for the exact reasons you state. It's a shame though because if you could provide proof it would also open a door to apply for a DAS card ahead of time. That would be real nice. Or apply one to the MagicBand if you have one.

 

[Robbi]

i see thank you. Yes I think if it's the American system then Disney is right to just not look at anyone's for the exact reasons you state. It's a shame though because if you could provide proof it would also open a door to apply for a DAS card ahead of time. That would be real nice. Or apply one to the MagicBand if you have one.

You're right, it would make it easier. It seems silly to me that people will walk around the parks with cards that have their pictures that identify them as people with a disability yet we cannot show medical proof even if we want to do that.

 

[cmwade77]

People who abuse (or just overuse) the system do so for the headliners. There isn't a huge rush on DAS cards to get into Haunted mansion or living with the land in Sept. That "perceived advantage" is where abuse comes from- abuse both by people who don't need any assistance and people who need some assistance taking everything they can argue for. Seeing that people randomly walk into the Soarin' FP line and then can immediately go on with the short wait rides, meanwhile the person looking for a way to get out of the 120 minute line completely wastes 2 hours of their day before boarding and moving on... it would be infuriating to anybody. Either way, it's not fair to the person who has to stand in line, but they at least have this perception of "ok, I don't get on the ride immediately, but neither do they." It cuts back on the unfair advantage to those who don't NEED immediate access. It is not for anybody here to decide, but there are certainly people who qualify for a DAS and could get by without it, and then there are people who can not. In time, I'm sure Disney will figure out a way to meet everybody's needs. I think unfortunately a stage in that is getting people who CAN take more responsibility for their own touring to do so. GAC became a crutch for some people, endangering the effectiveness of the program for those who could not function without it. The proposed system is so close to the GAC that for those who are not completely dependent on it, it is essentially the same.

No, it definitely is not anywhere close to the same as the GAC was, you still wait your turn. Remember right now at DLR, you can get a return time and take your time getting to the attraction, same as you are describing.


But perhaps here is another approach, that would solve most of the issues (still will have an issue with return times close to closing though) and may close the perceived potential for abuse (we can agree to disagree that the originally proposed system would lead to more abuse):
I would first get a return time by going to any attraction and letting them know what ride I want to wait for.

Then when I show up at that ride, they would ask me what ride I would like to go on next. I tell them, they look up the wait time, add in the length of the actual ride time, as that is time that I am not waiting and put the return time for the next attraction.

Yes, there are some attractions where they wouldn't be able to do this, but those attractions are usually grouped together, such as Fantasyland attractions at DL and they could leave a kiosk for returning to these attractions.

This would still factor in the time that I waited for the attraction, reduce the amount of extra traveling and eliminate the need to go to the attraction and come back later at WDW. Like I said it does still leave the issue of return times close to closing and that does need to be worked out, but perhaps this system would seem to reduce the potential for abuse.

 

[cmwade77]

Someone posted in the WDW thread that TSM had a 120 minute wait with 10 min to park closing and they we're let right into the FP line.

I see, that would work to solve the near closing time issues, if they let us know what the official policy is when we get the DAS and if that happened at DLR as well.

 

[cmwade77]

I dont agree that you still wait. The reality is that (lets pretend you dont need to wait for a vehicle, that changes the whole thing) you arrive at the ride-they write down a 30 minute wait. You ride, walk to your next ride and either walk slowly or maybe wait 5 mins when you get there. At this point, you enter the line for ride #2. As you are entering the line, the person who went through standby on the first ride is just BOARDING ride #1. By the time they ride and travel to ride #2, they are about 15 minutes behind you. You are boarding ride #2 when they are just getting in line. You "wait" 5 minutes, they waited 30 that is not equal. That is not fair, it is nothing but advantage.
By starting your time when you enter the fp line the fp time counts toward your wait, which it should, but you also get to include the time you are on the ride, the time you unboard and the time you travel to the next ride. That is neither equal nor fair. I cant get to TSM and say "no, but it took me 20 minutes to walk here, so I get to skip the first 20 minutes of line". They would laugh at me.

Its not that I dont get that people have complications. We have been cut off from shows because we had to park a stroller and get a child out (and suddenly you might care if you know he has a genetic abnormality and severe hypotonia), we have missed fastpasses because of waiting for a chef due to allergies, we have sat outside the park for an hour because DD didnt believe it was Disney- everybody, whether from a disability or not is going to have hurdles to overcome on a trip. So give some pixie dust but it doesnt mean a large group should skip EVERY line. The proposed wait after would only be fair if they added to the line wait, something like "60 minute wait +7 minute ride + 10 minute walk = 77 minute return. But then it gets too complex and people would bicker about walking speeds.

But HOW is allowing for traveling time any different than the current system?

The difference between the current system and what I suggested is with the current system we wait before the ride, with the new system, we wait after.

With the current system we can still take our time and go on other attractions with shorter waits, go to shows, use FP, etc. between going to a kiosk and returning to the attraction. So, I don't see any difference from this standpoint, in fact Disney even goes a step further and subtracts 10 minutes for travel time.

The difference is, with the present system, I have to wait for my return time, then when I get to the attraction, wait again in line. And yes, sometimes that second wait can be as long or longer than the first wait. With my originally proposed system, the waits are equalized, so that the total spent "waiting" is exactly the same as anyone else. It's just a different type of waiting.

The other difference is I may have to do backtracking, depending on the attractions that I wish to do.

Another issue is if I am physically unable to do an attraction when my return time comes around, under the present system I loose the time that I waited. Under my system, you simply wouldn't get in line for that attraction.

 

[mistysue]

No, it definitely is not anywhere close to the same as the GAC was, you still wait your turn. Remember right now at DLR, you can get a return time and take your time getting to the attraction, same as you are describing.

But perhaps here is another approach, that would solve most of the issues (still will have an issue with return times close to closing though) and may close the perceived potential for abuse (we can agree to disagree that the originally proposed system would lead to more abuse):
I would first get a return time by going to any attraction and letting them know what ride I want to wait for.

Then when I show up at that ride, they would ask me what ride I would like to go on next. I tell them, they look up the wait time, add in the length of the actual ride time, as that is time that I am not waiting and put the return time for the next attraction.

Yes, there are some attractions where they wouldn't be able to do this, but those attractions are usually grouped together, such as Fantasyland attractions at DL and they could leave a kiosk for returning to these attractions.

This would still factor in the time that I waited for the attraction, reduce the amount of extra traveling and eliminate the need to go to the attraction and come back later at WDW. Like I said it does still leave the issue of return times close to closing and that does need to be worked out, but perhaps this system would seem to reduce the potential for abuse.

I think that would work well.

Just so you know, my resistance is not about some strange urge to make it more difficult for anybody. I just want the system to deter people who take advantage that dont need so that it can truly work when it needs to. My daughter cant wait well, but one day doesnt ruin everything, we will return and we are able to distract her with things effectively- showing her the fp+ schedule, giving her the wait time app, etc. Not a choice for everybody but I prefer to leave the need based assistance for those without choices. Other people take every option even if it is want more than need, and that is their decision. "Gaming the system" isnt so fun when the payout doesnt happen upfront.

 

[going/again]

I still see real inequality for folks requiring accessible vehicles. It seems like additional time credit should be issued, based perhaps on the number/ride time of riders needing the vehicle currently in the queue, as well as guidance at the ride entrance about how long the wait for an accessible ride truly is- not just the posted time for the FastPass or standby line, but maybe a third wheelchair love so that the return time would be standby line minus wheelchair wait time. Or something.

Its easier than that make every car, boat, log flume, or whatever they use on any given ride accessible, now that's fair, After all that's what 95% on these forums claim to want.

 

[going/again]

It is the sheer volume of disabled people that ruin the system. Disney has become a magnet for disabled travelers. Somebody posted an article that suggested that I think it was near 1% of people in the park were GAC eligible... Most of those people are not alone. It is not sustainable to have a full percent, let alone 2 or 3 percent of the people accessing anything they want on demand. That is true whether or not you deem them disabled enough to count.

Sorry would you like them to stay at home, I'd stand in line all day if it meant disabled kids get to ride, people should look at some of these kids faces when they come of the rides the smiles would light up a dark room.

 

[going/again]

This is just one of those "agree to disagree" situations. Under the GAC, it wasn't an issue of waiting a "few minutes" more than a disabled person. It was an issue of standing in line for an hour or more while disabled people went in with little to no wait at all,

Clearly you have not been in the wheelchair line at AK safari.

 

[aaarcher86]

Sorry would you like them to stay at home, I'd stand in line all day if it meant disabled kids get to ride, people should look at some of these kids faces when they come of the rides the smiles would light up a dark room.

This is something that bothers me. Every child that walk through those gates deserves a magical experience. Every child. I'm absolutely all for accommodations that work but an able child doesn't deserve to 'wait in line all day' because they haven't been dealt the same hand of cards as a disabled child. They are just as deserving of a magical time.

Lots of parents feel that those that don't have a disabled child feel that their kids are inferior, but parents of disabled children do the same thing just like this line of thinking. I can not imagine a normal human being being unwilling to wait a few extra minutes for a disabled child... But it's not one. It's not two. It is thousands along with their families.

And while it's a nice thought, I think you'd actually be pretty agitated to pay $1000 per day only to wait in line. A line has to be drawn somewhere and something has to be done that gives everyone the vacation they deserve and pay for.

 

[going/again]

That would assume that 50% of the population is in wheelchairs?

Not confusing really everyone wants fair or so they say, so why does a disabled person have to wait for one car when an able person can pick from all the rest.
the lack of compassion on this subject is astounding.

 

[aaarcher86]

Not confusing really everyone wants fair or so they say, so why does a disabled person have to wait for one car when an able person can pick from all the rest. the lack of compassion on this subject is astounding.

There are only a certain amount of disabled people allowed on a ride at a time for safety reasons which is why they have fewer WC accessible vehicles.

Not every handicap person has to wait for an accessible vehicle.