Has Disney’s Strategies To It’s Loyal Customers Finally Caught Up With It?

[Summer2018]

We haven’t been since 2018. We fell in love with Disneyland when we went during spring break in 2019. It was so much easier to get around, and we rode all of the rides we wanted to without the complicated nonsense required at WDW. After our 2020 WDW trip was canceled, and we rescheduled the following year, the prices were not worth it, so we canceled and looked for better vacation options. We ended up staying at a 5 star ocean front resort for half the price. We don’t miss WDW. Just the thought of the aggravation and costs are enough to keep us away. Eventually there will be grandchildren, and we will have to return. I hope by then the circumstances will be better.

 

[Sue M]

That was last month. I have another trip booked at Cabana Bay and this time it was $240 for the same room. For the same weekend, Hard Rock was $700/night before discounts which is nuts.

Wow in August Cabana Bay is $130 then late Aug drops to $114!
HR is $329 late Aug,
these are AP discounts. And RPH late Aug is $287 with AP discount.
Ie got a deluxe Aventura room for $153, then moving to Royal Pacific water view for $306, but standard view would be $287.

 

[kylenne]

That brings up a good question: anyone here know how the Anaheim Convention Center is doing? Attendance there could affect Disneyland visitor levels.

Summer is nerd con season and there's a lot of heavy hitters to drive attendance at DLR, there is a LOT of overlap in these communities. BlizzCon is happening in Anaheim in a minute and Anime Expo just wrapped up in LA. I'm cosplayer with a lot of friends in the scene and everybody and their cousin on my social feeds who was at Anime Expo last weekend was going to DLR.

 

[irlandaise]

Summer is nerd con season and there's a lot of heavy hitters to drive attendance at DLR, there is a LOT of overlap in these communities. BlizzCon is happening in Anaheim in a minute and Anime Expo just wrapped up in LA. I'm cosplayer with a lot of friends in the scene and everybody and their cousin on my social feeds who was at Anime Expo last weekend was going to DLR.

Ah, good points. (And I love the term "nerd con." )

I was thinking of business conventions, which often offer special prices on DL tickets for attendees and their families, but yeah, nerd cons bring in a slew of people who will want to go to DL.

 

[Brianstl]

There is most certainly a shift in travel happening that is probably effecting the parks more than anything else:

May tourist tax dollars down month over month, year over year in Orange County​

Brandon Hogan

Some changes relate to dropping convention center attendance, comptroller says​

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. – Orange County’s Tourist Development Tax (TDT) collections in May showed decreases from the prior month and year, according to Comptroller Phil Diamond.
The county brought in $26,216,500 for May 2023, lower than in April by $7.4 million and down 6.7% compared to May 2022, but still $9.3 million higher than collections in May 2021. The latest TDT collections also marked the first time since February 2021 that two consecutive months showed year-over-year decreases.
The average daily rate at hotels in the Orlando Metro was $186 in May, down from $221 in April, and the metro’s hotel occupancy rate at large fell 2.5% year over year, now down to 69.3%. Diamond related these figures to dropping attendance at the Orange County Convention Center, despite a rise in the number of events scheduled there and in citywide attendance.
“This was the first month since February 2021 that the convention hotel segment saw a decline in demand. While the number of events at the Orange County Convention Center in May increased year over year, the groups were smaller, meaning less overall attendance. For the year overall through May, citywide attendance is up 24% and is forecasted to be strong through the end of the year,” Diamond said in a statement.
TDT reserves increased by $14.4 million in May to $335,946,674 total, according to the release.
Diamond told News 6 that the county needs to watch that money closely, given the number of projects pitched to the Orange County Tourist Development Tax Task Force.
“We’re coming off a season of 14 record-setting months and you just can’t keep that up forever,” Diamond said. “There’s a TDT task force looking at priorities and how to spend money in the future (...) that might mean that you can’t do projects simultaneously, maybe you have to do them in sequence to make sure the funding is there, maybe you need to make sure there’s more cash on hand before you start those.”
Some projects already recommended by the task force include $800 million for the installation of a roof at Camping World Stadium, $176.6 million to build a sports village at UCF and $975 million for the construction of a baseball stadium for the Orlando Dreamers.
According to the comptroller’s website, the TDT is a 6% tax paid by guests renting or leasing living quarters or other accommodations in Orange County for six months or less. What the money is spent on is limited by state statute to such expenditures as the acquisition and operation of sports stadiums and museums, tourism advertising and the payment of debt services on construction-related bonds.

.I think the problem is more severe at Disney right now, but there is definitely something bigger going on. With our issues with WDW, we have shifted to cruising instead of our WDW trips. So I monitor prices like a hawk to see if a cruise we already have booked has a price drop or if a great deal pops up to add another trip. Well in the last 24 hours Royal Caribbean has dropped the prices over 15% on what totals over 500 cabin categories on their fleet of ships. Around half of those price cuts are over 30%. There has been nothing like this that has accrued in the couple years I have been monitoring cruise prices like this. In fact, it has been an almost constant rapid rise in cruise prices until today.

 

[Disney Bobby]

Wondering if it has something to do with the travel warnings issued by the NAACP and Equality Florida. Or people otherwise not wanting to travel to FL because of ethical concerns with the current political climate. I do know several friends who wanted to come this summer but decided not to spend their vacation dollars in Florida.

Could also be conservative backlash against Disney too. Or a combo of both. Disney hasn't gotten back to pre COVID numbers while Universal has. Disney's price increases and rule nuttiness probably a factor too.

 

[NotUrsula]

.I think the problem is more severe at Disney right now, but there is definitely something bigger going on. With our issues with WDW, we have shifted to cruising instead of our WDW trips. So I monitor prices like a hawk to see if a cruise we already have booked has a price drop or if a great deal pops up to add another trip. Well in the last 24 hours Royal Caribbean has dropped the prices over 15% on what totals over 500 cabin categories on their fleet of ships. Around half of those price cuts are over 30%. There has been nothing like this that has accrued in the couple years I have been monitoring cruise prices like this. In fact, it has been an almost constant rapid rise in cruise prices until today.

What's happening is that with inflation rates (and that "thank God it's over" trip splurge in the rearview mirror), all that disposable income that people piled up during the pandemic is gone now, and bookings are down in all but the most expensive luxury travel categories. (Because the 1% still have a lot of disposable income.)

 

[RivShore]

Disney hasn't gotten back to pre COVID numbers while Universal has.

Based on what? Disney parks in 2022 exceeded pre-covid revenue and profit by a pretty sizable amount.

 

[RivShore]

.I think the problem is more severe at Disney right now, but there is definitely something bigger going on. With our issues with WDW, we have shifted to cruising instead of our WDW trips. So I monitor prices like a hawk to see if a cruise we already have booked has a price drop or if a great deal pops up to add another trip. Well in the last 24 hours Royal Caribbean has dropped the prices over 15% on what totals over 500 cabin categories on their fleet of ships. Around half of those price cuts are over 30%. There has been nothing like this that has accrued in the couple years I have been monitoring cruise prices like this. In fact, it has been an almost constant rapid rise in cruise prices until today.

That's an interesting data point supporting the revenge travel slowdown. Up until recently cruise operators were reporting nothing but full ships.

 

[jerry557]

The big thing is that the profit model is obviously maxed out. They’ve reached a point where they can’t squeeze out any more profit with the current offerings. Raising prices or finding more ways to nickle and dime will only drive attendance lower. In other words, it’s now at a point of diminishing returns. They went too aggressive and too fast with price hikes, and they waited too long to start selling annual passes.

People are also frustrated with the systems. The park reservation system is a relic from COVID that Disney flat out refuses to give up, while every other competitor abandoned it long ago. Genie+ and LL is not popular. People don't like waking up on their vacation every morning at 7am and have their entire vacation depend on whether they can push the buttons fast enough and hope the hotel wifi is good enough. Food has become extremely expensive. Many of the buffets are $62 and up a person. And the quality of the food hasn't gone up to justify those price hikes (in fact some executives have suggested portions should be reduced!). Maintenance and cleanliness has suffered in the parks and many of the resorts.

You cant squeeze any further profits out of any of this.

 

[Disney Bobby]

Based on what? Disney parks in 2022 exceeded pre-covid revenue and profit by a pretty sizable amount.

Attendance

https://www.disneytouristblog.com/a...ey-world-loses-marketshare-universal-orlando/

 

[Minnie1222]

Based on what? Disney parks in 2022 exceeded pre-covid revenue and profit by a pretty sizable amount.

Based on an Attendance article with a long preface (see above). The person wanted everyone to know that Disney's 2022 park attendance is still lower than 2019.

But it's a moot point since they're still holding at #1.

 

[New Mouse]

But it's a moot point since they're still holding at #1.

Is it though? If you remain stagnant the other guy will almost always pass you.

 

[Disney Bobby]

The big thing is that the profit model is obviously maxed out. They’ve reached a point where they can’t squeeze out any more profit with the current offerings. Raising prices or finding more ways to nickle and dime will only drive attendance lower. In other words, it’s now at a point of diminishing returns. They went too aggressive and too fast with price hikes, and they waited too long to start selling annual passes.

People are also frustrated with the systems. The park reservation system is a relic from COVID that Disney flat out refuses to give up, while every other competitor abandoned it long ago. Genie+ and LL is not popular. People don't like waking up on their vacation every morning at 7am and have their entire vacation depend on whether they can push the buttons fast enough and hope the hotel wifi is good enough. Food has become extremely expensive. Many of the buffets are $62 and up a person. And the quality of the food hasn't gone up to justify those price hikes (in fact some executives have suggested portions should be reduced!). Maintenance and cleanliness has suffered in the parks and many of the resorts.

You cant squeeze any further profits out of any of this.

I still can't get over the 7am thing. I'm up usually at 5am every day anyway, but my family isn't. That is the dumbest park idea I've seen come out of Disney in a long time.

 

[Minnie1222]

Is it though? If you remain stagnant the other guy will almost always pass you.

Stagnant, really? Based on the chart, MK, EP, HS, AK had an attendance increase of 35%, 29%, 27%, 25%, respectively while the two Universal parks had 20% and 21%. Disneyland parks had 97% and 81%, while Universal Hollywood had 53%.

Personally, I don't care which company takes the #1 spot. I'm an AP holder at both Florida parks and I enjoy them both.

 

[meremac]

Like others have said, summers are just not that busy anymore. I book mostly Disney Vacations, and this is always my slow season in terms of clients actually traveling but a busier season in terms of people inquiring about and booking future trips for fall/winter.

 

[Disney Bobby]

Is it though? If you remain stagnant the other guy will almost always pass you.

Being #1 is something, but it isn't everything. The biggest thing I noticed from that data is that Disney isn't #1-#4 in Orlando anymore. The Universal parks have passed some of the Disney parks. No way that is a good thing for Disney. Might get worse with Epic Universe. What's left to do in Epcot isn't going to move the needle. People are tired of Star Wars. And Animal Kingdom is way off it's 2019 numbers, and I don't see anything there that going to drastically change that.

 

[New Mouse]

Being #1 is something, but it isn't everything. The biggest thing I noticed from that data is that Disney isn't #1-#4 in Orlando anymore. The Universal parks have passed some of the Disney parks. No way that is a good thing for Disney. Might get worse with Epic Universe. What's left to do in Epcot isn't going to move the needle. People are tired of Star Wars. And Animal Kingdom is way off it's 2019 numbers, and I don't see anything there that going to drastically change that.

Hollywood Studios is in the best position for Disney to truly get a pop at this point in time.

Epcot is a sleeping giant, but there is no one with vision in a position that matters to actually remodel that place the way it needs to be. What they did for this go around was the bare minimum if that.

 

[shh]

Like others have said, summers are just not that busy anymore. I book mostly Disney Vacations, and this is always my slow season in terms of clients actually traveling but a busier season in terms of people inquiring about and booking future trips for fall/winter.

These theme park designers did it to themselves - WDW in the '70s had lots of shade trees, benches and the coldest AC anywhere...many areas where people could cool off - and they actually removed the trees/benches - and got cheap with the AC, turning it higher - the opposite of what any intelligent designer would do in Florida summer heat - particularly with projected temp increases/climate change issues.

Personal opinion: it won't be long before most people will no longer be physically able to visit any of these Florida theme parks in summer over the next decade - the heat is beyond brutal.

I've been going since the 70s - and it's a lot different today.

 

[gmi3804]

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