First DVC Resale Contract for The Villas at Disneyland Hotel

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

No argument here, I was thinking more in the context of maintaining the Disneyland resort. (Late 90s/early 2000s was no bueno)

You say that but you could run around a mostly empty California Adventure and ride California Screaming until you puked— as a college student, I thought that was pretty sweet.

 

[Disfamwa]

Sure, but Disney isn’t profiting from the TOT and has to work with the city to get new projects approved.

That’s why I separate it in my mind from the more controllable variables of the price per point and the point chart.

However they definitely all add up in the end when you are comparing the cost to stay at VGC vs VDH.

As long as VGC doesn’t get remodeled by the people who did the Jazz Kitchen then IMO the ppp will hold up just fine as VDH resales hit the market.

The Jazz Kitchen comment has me cracking up

 

[soniam]

All I can say is that I am glad we bought direct there. It's our only direct but 2nd contract. I hope the seller does well, assuming it's a distress sale.

 

[GoingSince1990]

You say that but you could run around a mostly empty California Adventure and ride California Screaming until you puked— as a college student, I thought that was pretty sweet.

Our first visit after DCA opened was in 2002 and I spent most of my time saying “wait, why are people calling this place a flop?” Loved Paradise Pier, blown away by Soarin’, only regret was that we missed Superstar Limo (aka “the Great Movie Ride on crack”) which had already closed by that point.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Our first visit after DCA opened was in 2002 and I spent most of my time saying “wait, why are people calling this place a flop?” Loved Paradise Pier, blown away by Soarin’, only regret was that we missed Superstar Limo (aka “the Great Movie Ride on crack”) which had already closed by that point.

For the record, I was not suggesting it was a flop— I loved original DCA. Superstar limo was fun but as a LA native, Mulholland Madness was my favorite extinct theme. I also loved Seasons of the Vine and getting free snacks around the Wharf. I don’t remember how long it stayed uncrowded—but I had an annual pass from 01-02 and it was less crowded most of the time than a random Wednesday lately.

 

[GoingSince1990]

For the record, I was not suggesting it was a flop— I loved original DCA. Superstar limo was fun but as a LA native, Mulholland Madness was my favorite extinct theme. I also loved Seasons of the Vine and getting free snacks around the Wharf. I don’t remember how long it stayed uncrowded—but I had an annual pass from 01-02 and it was less crowded most of the time than a random Wednesday lately.

No, it sounds like you enjoyed it just as much as I did! I meant the prevailing, sneering narrative in the press about how terrible DCA was, which I always totally disagreed with!

 

[Disfamwa]

No, it sounds like you enjoyed it just as much as I did! I meant the prevailing, sneering narrative in the press about how terrible DCA was, which I always totally disagreed with!

I absolutely loved the Who Wants to be a Millionaire experience as a kid! I just remember doing that like 3 times in day haha

 

[AstroBlasters]

It’s telling that the VDH contract is still on the market…. I’m sure they have received some offers…. I keep hoping something will pop up in the rejected offers thread.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

No, it sounds like you enjoyed it just as much as I did! I meant the prevailing, sneering narrative in the press about how terrible DCA was, which I always totally disagreed with!

100%— I apologize as it was I who misunderstood you! I loved the original park (though always thought it would make more sense to have a park *about California* somewhere other than in California).

@Disfamwa — I had forgotten about that! I loved it. Sad I never had a chance to play!

 

[thelionqueen]

It’s telling that the VDH contract is still on the market…. I’m sure they have received some offers…. I keep hoping something will pop up in the rejected offers thread.

I was going to make an offer (a very low one) but decided against it. Main reason, even at $100pp and seller paying all dues, fees & closing, I STILL couldn't justify the purchase. Not that I believe that price would get accepted and start the process, but even at $100pp all-in price, it didn't move the needle. I am very curious as to how long it will take and what the price will land at. I saw another poster saying they think they will buy resale there (at the time they are ready, not this contract) for $150pp which boggles my mind. I wouldn't touch VDH resale, even at half the cost of buying direct. IMO VDH is the catalyst for NOT buying restricted resale points and only buying direct.

I know the scenario of "it doesn't matter about restrictions because those buying at VDH are intending to stay there," which I don't disagree with in general. However, FORCING you to ONLY stay there is a totally different animal than having 11m advantage if you need it, but also the flexibility of using those points elsewhere. 50 years of staying only at one resort, VDH or any another for that matter, is a hard sell imo. I remember 15-20 years ago the main selliing point of DVC was flexibility - harsh 180 on that idea

 

[intamin]

I was going to make an offer (a very low one) but decided against it. Main reason, even at $100pp and seller paying all dues, fees & closing, I STILL couldn't justify the purchase. Not that I believe that price would get accepted and start the process, but even at $100pp all-in price, it didn't move the needle. I am very curious as to how long it will take and what the price will land at. I saw another poster saying they think they will buy resale there (at the time they are ready, not this contract) for $150pp which boggles my mind. I wouldn't touch VDH resale, even at half the cost of buying direct. IMO VDH is the catalyst for NOT buying restricted resale points and only buying direct.

I know the scenario of "it doesn't matter about restrictions because those buying at VDH are intending to stay there," which I don't disagree with in general. However, FORCING you to ONLY stay there is a totally different animal than having 11m advantage if you need it, but also the flexibility of using those points elsewhere. 50 years of staying only at one resort, VDH or any another for that matter, is a hard sell imo. I remember 15-20 years ago the main selliing point of DVC was flexibility - harsh 180 on that idea

Very fair points. I guarantee someone else will probably pay that much but that just means its not for us. I was in a similar predicament when considering RIV resale but decided I would rather own less points direct and have the ability to burn the points on a larger Aulani trip or on whatever other WDW resort. Not that I plan to but I reserve the flexibility to do so and same with using them at any other resort. I may be paying more per point but like you said the product is not the same.

With resale AKV and AUL I did not feel the difference in product between resale and direct was significant enough to warrant direct as they still have access to the majority of resorts especially with me already having direct RIV I pretty much already have a way to get into any and all resorts at 7 months.

 

[intamin]

Something else we didn't take into account is buying resale VDH basically means you're at the mercy of the transient taxes because your points are 100% guaranteed to be used there. There's no oh I'll use them at Saratoga or Polynesian or whatever. You may as well add that transient tax as part of your dues for the remaining 50 years.

9.06+2.73= 11.79 per point which is second only to Vero Beach in the DVC world and the resort only opened this year.

 

[Cfabar1]

I was going to make an offer (a very low one) but decided against it. Main reason, even at $100pp and seller paying all dues, fees & closing, I STILL couldn't justify the purchase. Not that I believe that price would get accepted and start the process, but even at $100pp all-in price, it didn't move the needle. I am very curious as to how long it will take and what the price will land at. I saw another poster saying they think they will buy resale there (at the time they are ready, not this contract) for $150pp which boggles my mind. I wouldn't touch VDH resale, even at half the cost of buying direct. IMO VDH is the catalyst for NOT buying restricted resale points and only buying direct.

I know the scenario of "it doesn't matter about restrictions because those buying at VDH are intending to stay there," which I don't disagree with in general. However, FORCING you to ONLY stay there is a totally different animal than having 11m advantage if you need it, but also the flexibility of using those points elsewhere. 50 years of staying only at one resort, VDH or any another for that matter, is a hard sell imo. I remember 15-20 years ago the main selliing point of DVC was flexibility - harsh 180 on that idea

I agree. However, I do think that Disney is such a unique destination will help stem the tide somewhat, and the fact that DVC is so limited. The fact a one bedroom will be around 300 points per week also means someone doesn’t have to go every year.

It’s also important for us to realize that every resort is now in some way a restricted resort when bought resale. Some have more access options and some have fewer options, but no resale contract will let you stay everywhere and each year a new resort opens your points are more and more restricted.

 

[ehh]

Something going against the resale contract right now is that very few people have stayed at VDH as it's only been open for a month.

Combined with the resale restrictions means that there's very few people, relative to other properties, that are confident that they would be content (or better) staying there with 100% of their points (or renting).

For those us of that bought sight-unseen direct, we at least had the solace that the points could be SAP (and maybe even grab a VGC reservation here or there).

 

[thelionqueen]

Something else we didn't take into account is buying resale VDH basically means you're at the mercy of the transient taxes because your points are 100% guaranteed to be used there. There's no oh I'll use them at Saratoga or Polynesian or whatever. You may as well add that transient tax as part of your dues for the remaining 50 years.

9.06+2.73= 11.79 per point which is second only to Vero Beach in the DVC world and the resort only opened this year.

Very true! One thing that helped buying direct is I wasn’t tied to the tax with all points, just ones used there. Considering that no chance I’d offer anything at all!

 

[intamin]

Very true! One thing that helped buying direct is I wasn’t tied to the tax with all points, just ones used there. Considering that no chance I’d offer anything at all!

Yep you can't just be like I'm going to take a break from VDH so I don't have to pay for the transient taxes. Even though we JUST had this discussion I see a resale RIV contract in my UY that is going for very cheap but again the inflexibility of using it at other resorts makes me still want to buy direct although it's tempting to save 10k.. but again being locked into one resort for 46 years is a longggg time but I have plenty of places to make back up that money and be happier with the product overall.

 

[thelionqueen]

Yep you can't just be like I'm going to take a break from VDH so I don't have to pay for the transient taxes. Even though we JUST had this discussion I see a resale RIV contract in my UY that is going for very cheap but again the inflexibility of using it at other resorts makes me still want to buy direct although it's tempting to save 10k.. but again being locked into one resort for 46 years is a longggg time but I have plenty of places to make back up that money and be happier with the product overall.

And maybe herein lies the Achilles heel of VDH vs Riv. At least at Riv there are no additional taxes on those points, and owners just adore that resort. Not saying that owners at all resorts don’t adore their own, just saying, not paying more for the same offering is key, e.g., Riv costs “x” points each year vs VDH costs same PLUS $500-1000 additional every year. That adds up extremely quickly being forced to use your points at VDH.

Calculations are not my strength, but think I saw someone say that buying VDH resale adds $50k+ to its membership vs any other resort.

 

[thelionqueen]

I agree. However, I do think that Disney is such a unique destination will help stem the tide somewhat, and the fact that DVC is so limited. The fact a one bedroom will be around 300 points per week also means someone doesn’t have to go every year.

It’s also important for us to realize that every resort is now in some way a restricted resort when bought resale. Some have more access options and some have fewer options, but no resale contract will let you stay everywhere and each year a new resort opens your points are more and more restricted.

True but no other restricted resort has an additional tax. That sets VDH as the unicorn of restricted resales, and not in a good way

 

[Sandisw]

True but no other restricted resort has an additional tax. That sets VDH as the unicorn of restricted resales, and not in a good way

I happen to agree that this is an added consideration that one will have to weigh in when deciding to buy it or not

 

[AstroBlasters]

Well, @ $11.78pp vs VGC @ $8.05pp that is a difference of $3.73pp every year.

But, the buy in price per point is not the same.

I ran an excel NPV assuming a $260pp VGC vs a $160pp VDH and then assumed the dues went up at 5% per year and inflation is 3% per year.

The total dues difference is $32,595. BUT, because some of those are inflated dollars then the actual net present value in today’s dollars is around $10,809.

The point at which VGC came out ahead was 2041.

Now, that is for RESALE VDH. Direct VDH at $192pp was ahead until 2036, a lifetime (VGC’s lifetime) higher cost of $37,395, and $15,609 at today’s net present value.

If you receive no VDH incentives, then VDH was ahead until 2030, a lifetime (VGC’s lifetime) higher cost of $43,095, and $21,309 at today’s net present value.

So…. dues definitely matter….

You’d have to get VDH down to $86-87pp to get a breakeven in today’s net present value over the life of a current VGC contract.

And you can use those VGC points elsewhere if you wanted to…. so that’s probably worth something additional too….