ECV Accidernt at MK

[livndisney]

Out of respect for sue I not going to say what I want but only bus stops that have boxes are at the resorts. The problem where guest are having is at the parks with those que half don't know the new policy thanks to the of signs and the other Half find it difficult to go through the que. I meant that what most drivers will say is not to go through the que but try to go on the side where the driver can see you and then load you. I know that all the buses Disney uses load through the back door I posted enough thread showing it and telling guest about it to under stand that fact. I never said they would be load through the front door just meant to go to the front where the driver can see you then load you though the back door. It also depends on which cm you ask you get different answers to which is the right way.

Out of respect for Sue and her efforts, I think it is important to provide correct information. When I see mis information posted, I will do my best to provide the correct info.

Sadly what happens many times, is people read something on the internet and take it as "gospel". Too many people already think that those with disabilties get to go to the front of the line. So when someone posts on the disabilties board "just go to the front of the que at the parks"-I am going to post the correct information.

 

[disney david]

Out of respect for Sue and her efforts, I think it is important to provide correct information. When I see mis information posted, I will do my best to provide the correct info.

Sadly what happens many times, is people read something on the internet and take it as "gospel". Too many people already think that those with disabilties get to go to the front of the line. So when someone posts on the disabilties board "just go to the front of the que at the parks"-I am going to post the correct information.

Then show me where I said they load wheel chairs through the front door I never did i said they should go to the front of the que. It might have sounded like I meant they will old you through the front door but that not what I said. that it in front where the driver can see you and then load you first yes that go gainst their policy but figured are having a hard time understanding the policy due to the fact they don't put a sign or enough cms t the stops at the park to let them know what the policy is. Not every guest tht goes to Disney is a disboards member or use the Internet to find info. So when they get their and final find out tht they have to go through the que which they my not be used to it and will make it harder for them. I think if Disney wants to enforce a policy their should at least a sign some where in the area of the stop t the pros like they due at the resorts. It been reported on on this forum that the drivers are telling some guest not to go through the que and to go to the front then they will be load through the BACK DOOR. So that why i told them not to go through the que because if their that worried about it that it will ruin their trip then why should they do it until Disney decides to do the right thing and put signs up and come up with a policy that make everyone happy.

 

[livndisney]

Then show me where I said they load wheel chairs through the front door I never did i said they should go to the front of the que. It might have sounded like I meant they will old you through the front door but that not what I said. that it in front where the driver can see you and then load you first yes that go gainst their policy but figured are having a hard time understanding the policy due to the fact they don't put a sign or enough cms t the stops at the park to let them know what the policy is. Not every guest tht goes to Disney is a disboards member or use the Internet to find info. So when they get their and final find out tht they have to go through the que which they my not be used to it and will make it harder for them. I think if Disney wants to enforce a policy their should at least a sign some where in the area of the stop t the pros like they due at the resorts. It been reported on on this forum that the drivers are telling some guest not to go through the que and to go to the front then they will be load through the BACK DOOR. So that why i told them not to go through the que because if their that worried about it that it will ruin their trip then why should they do it until Disney decides to do the right thing and put signs up and come up with a policy that make everyone happy.

I am having a hard time following this post.

But in the interest of providing information....

Some resorts do have signs posted stating the "rules" for bus boarding for those with disabilties. Pictures of those signs have been posted.

As a general rule, WDW advises guests to wait near where the back door of the bus will be. In some bus locations(theme parks) WDW recently changed the policy to having ecv's enter the line. This has been posted here on the dis rather often.

 

[disney david]

I am having a hard time following this post.

But in the interest of providing information....

Some resorts do have signs posted stating the "rules" for bus boarding for those with disabilties. Pictures of those signs have been posted.

As a general rule, WDW advises guests to wait near where the back door of the bus will be. In some bus locations(theme parks) WDW recently changed the policy to having ecv's enter the line. This has been posted here on the dis rather often.

I giving up we are going to keep going back an fourth and it not fair to the op that it get hyjacked by two people who are trying to prove who right. This is no win situation we got here have a good night.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I don’t forsee them changing it to 2. That would cause hardship for some families (for example: mom, dad and 2 children).

No, it is true and would have happened to us quite a few times in the past if wheelchairs were not loaded first.
On the WDW buses, the wheelchair spots are in the back. It takes a certain amount of space to manouver a wheelchair into place in order to load it and tie it down in the wheelchair space. An ECV takes more space to manouver than a wheelchair does. It takes more than just the one seat that folds up to make a parking spot.
When the bus gets too full, there is not space to load a wheelchair or ECV because of all the people who might get run into, even if there are still seats left.

City buses are configured differently - the wheelchair spots are in the front and people are asked to keep moving to the back of the bus. So, there will be manouvering space pretty much until the bus is too full for even people standing to get on.

When our party is more than 3, we do usually split up. One, 2 or 3 go with DD and load with her wheelchair. The rest wait in line.
We have often had the situation where those of us who waited in line were able to get into the bus and even get seats. In most cases, at least 10 or more people behind us in line got seats too. But, if DD had been with us waiting in line, there would not have been enough room to load her wheelchair. If we had to step aside and wait for the next bus, it would not be fair because there were seats for many people behind us in line. The only reason we would have to wait was because DD can’t walk onto the bus.

That is a different situation. The large family is choosing to wait for the next bus rather than stand on the more crowded bus.
My DD doesn’t have that choice. A bus that is too full to manouver a wheelchair on usually still has lots of room for other guests to stand and usually even to sit. (And, for the record, we usually have 2 of our party standing unless there are empty seats on the bus - even if we were first at the bus step and would have all gotten seats anyway.

And, many people have experienced buses double parked at the end of the day. The second bus pulls up next to and a bit behind the first bus. Because of how it pulls up, wheelchairs and ECVs can’t be loaded. People with wheelchairs and ECVs have reported they sometimes have had to wait for a 3rd or 4th bus to actually get loaded, even when people who arrived at the stop way after they did were gone before them.

The lines vary. Some are not as wide as others. Most have more turns and twists than the attraction lines.

ok, I am confused here, I know the seating area for the wheelchairs are in the back of the bus, don't they still load from the back of the bus? There shouldn't be that much manuvering on the wheelchair or scooter if they are going thru the back. The seating area is right by that door, isn't it? It isn't like they are going down the isle. I am not saying that they must load when it is standing room only... I guess we are both right when it comes to this.. no, they cannot be loaded when it is standing room only, but they can be loaded with others on the bus.. how do they do it when they load up at the resorts who have more than one stop such as Riverside? They don't have all wheelchair bound guests go to the first bus stop to load? They don't have everyone get off the bus to load the wheelchair guest? Are they going to wait for a bus that has no one on it to load? the answers are no to these questions.. so if they deal with it at the resorts with more than one stop, they can adapt some sort of way to deal with the loading at the theme parks. There has to be a better way for everyone involved.. that is all I am saying.. It isn't fair to those on line to give up their seats because someone in a wheelchair arrives as the bus arrives... I am sorry if I sound mean, I don't want to. ADA states equality.. not priority.
ADA is for all disabilities too.. Also while the person who may only be using a chair say for a broken leg (not a disability), gets on first with a party of say 6, there can be a family on line with a person who has a true disability (ADA acknowledged) and is standing there on the line not getting on the bus but waiting for the broken leg to board just because they don't have a wheelchair Not all with chairs are true disabilities and protected under the ADA guidelines.. I hope you don't take this post the wrong way, but I do want you to see what I am saying..

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

ok, I am confused here, I know the seating area for the wheelchairs are in the back of the bus, don't they still load from the back of the bus? There shouldn't be that much manuvering on the wheelchair or scooter if they are going thru the back. The seating area is right by that door, isn't it? It isn't like they are going down the isle. I am not saying that they must load when it is standing room only... I guess we are both right when it comes to this.. no, they cannot be loaded when it is standing room only, but they can be loaded with others on the bus.. how do they do it when they load up at the resorts who have more than one stop such as Riverside? They don't have all wheelchair bound guests go to the first bus stop to load? They don't have everyone get off the bus to load the wheelchair guest? Are they going to wait for a bus that has no one on it to load? the answers are no to these questions.. so if they deal with it at the resorts with more than one stop, they can adapt some sort of way to deal with the loading at the theme parks. There has to be a better way for everyone involved.. that is all I am saying.. It isn't fair to those on line to give up their seats because someone in a wheelchair arrives as the bus arrives... I am sorry if I sound mean, I don't want to. ADA states equality.. not priority.

The main reason why they can load the way they do at the resorts is because there is not usually a large amount of people that are getting on at one time. Most of the time when a bus is picking up at a resort they will only take a few people not the full crush load that they do at the end of the night so loading a wheelchair or ECV isn’t that much of a problem.

ADA is for all disabilities too.. Also while the person who may only be using a chair say for a broken leg (not a disability), gets on first with a party of say 6, there can be a family on line with a person who has a true disability (ADA acknowledged) and is standing there on the line not getting on the bus but waiting for the broken leg to board just because they don't have a wheelchair Not all with chairs are true disabilities and protected under the ADA guidelines.. I hope you don't take this post the wrong way, but I do want you to see what I am saying..

Yes ADA is for all disabilities but the reason for loading wheelchairs and ECV’s the way they do is so that the bus driver can get them in the right spot and strapped in whatever way is necessary for the particular vehicle.
Also when the lines for the buses get very busy what they will do is pull up a send bus beside the first one so that only the front door is accessible. Well this may be unfair to someone in a wheelchair or ECV Disney needs to get people out of those corals as quick as they can and sometimes loading a wheelchair or ECV can take a while. Also remember on any given day WDW Transportation moves the equivalent of the population of New York City.

 

[SueM in MN]

Aggggghhhhrrrr!
I wrote a long post and it disappeared before I could post it.
It's too late to re-write it tonight, so it will have to wait until after work tomorrow or for Friday.

I will just say that when the bus is full, there are just a few inches of manouvering available to get onto the bus with a wheelchair or ECV and it is not easy to do. Keep in mind that turning the average ECV or wheelchair requires a circle 5 feet in diameter.
Getting on involves a sharp turn once the person reaches the top of the ramp ( or the lift gets to bus floor height). Then, you have to basically parallel park on the opposite side compared to where you would parallel park a car on the street.

I will also say that what to do at the resorts is pretty well marked. At the parks, it is very confusing.

 

[lakohls]

My DS14 is in a manual WC full time. As a family of 6 (2 parents & 4 kids ages 3, 8, 10, & 13 in November) plus 2 grandparents we visited for a week in November.

I was nervous having read many of threads of info about policies changing and was trying to plan out how to best adapt & ensure that everyone in our group had a good time. We planned ahead that in the event of crowds it was likely that we would be splitting up.

Actual results:
From AK-Kidani resort: there is a wheelchair marked spot at the "end" of the que area where my son was to be parked so that the driver could clearly see that someone in need of assistance was in the line. So each trip, DS & 1 other adult waited in this area & we sent rest of party to the regular line to wait. On the couple of departures where only 1 adult was leaving with DS & other kids we all waited together & boarded together (couldn't leave a 3/8/10 yr old alone & risk being split frm them!). All week there was only 1 departure from Kidani that we had to split up & take 2 buses to a park due to lack of availability. And I realize that Kidani may be unique in that this is typically the 1st stop for the buses servicing the AK resorts.

Returning to Kidani:
At both Animal Kingdom & Hollywood Studios we attempted to go through the regular que as per the new policy I had read about here & absent seeing instructions otherwise at the bus stations. In both cases DS & I were pulled from the que by a CM and directed to wait at the "end" of the que area on the end so that the buses would be able to see additional assistance was needed & properly load us at the back of the bus. Again, when more than 1 adult was available, the rest of our party waited in the regular lines. Similar experiences at Epcot, MK, & DTD as well.

Throughout the entire trip I really felt that Disney & CMs did their best to ensure the safety of everyone on the buses and treat everyone equally.

Maybe we have just been fortunate, but we have not experienced the issues that others have outlined. We will continue to patronize Disney as for our family it is among the best vacation experiences our family is able enjoy together without regard for the extra time/effort etc that it can take to include our DS in his WC.

We truly appreciate all the efforts of the CMs and the other guests that have helped us along to making magical vacations for all our kids!

 

[disney david]

My DS14 is in a manual WC full time. As a family of 6 (2 parents & 4 kids ages 3, 8, 10, & 13 in November) plus 2 grandparents we visited for a week in November.

I was nervous having read many of threads of info about policies changing and was trying to plan out how to best adapt & ensure that everyone in our group had a good time. We planned ahead that in the event of crowds it was likely that we would be splitting up.

Actual results:
From AK-Kidani resort: there is a wheelchair marked spot at the "end" of the que area where my son was to be parked so that the driver could clearly see that someone in need of assistance was in the line. So each trip, DS & 1 other adult waited in this area & we sent rest of party to the regular line to wait. On the couple of departures where only 1 adult was leaving with DS & other kids we all waited together & boarded together (couldn't leave a 3/8/10 yr old alone & risk being split frm them!). All week there was only 1 departure from Kidani that we had to split up & take 2 buses to a park due to lack of availability. And I realize that Kidani may be unique in that this is typically the 1st stop for the buses servicing the AK resorts.

Returning to Kidani:
At both Animal Kingdom & Hollywood Studios we attempted to go through the regular que as per the new policy I had read about here & absent seeing instructions otherwise at the bus stations. In both cases DS & I were pulled from the que by a CM and directed to wait at the "end" of the que area on the end so that the buses would be able to see additional assistance was needed & properly load us at the back of the bus. Again, when more than 1 adult was available, the rest of our party waited in the regular lines. Similar experiences at Epcot, MK, & DTD as well.

Throughout the entire trip I really felt that Disney & CMs did their best to ensure the safety of everyone on the buses and treat everyone equally.

Maybe we have just been fortunate, but we have not experienced the issues that others have outlined. We will continue to patronize Disney as for our family it is among the best vacation experiences our family is able enjoy together without regard for the extra time/effort etc that it can take to include our DS in his WC.

We truly appreciate all the efforts of the CMs and the other guests that have helped us along to making magical vacations for all our kids!

Glad you had a great time and didn't have any problems and hope all our trips go as good as this one did. Your right the cms in transportation take a lot of pride in their job and make sure you have a safe trip. That the goal of every driver to make sure your safe and have a great ride on their bus. Is they a very few bad apples yes of course just like every company but for the most part your deal with great drivers and great experiences that make your trip great.

 

[GrammyJudy]

Please everyone send an email to Disney to change their policy of lining up for the buses. I finally got a phone call and all she said was they are looking into it so let our voices be heard!!!!

 

[livndisney]

Please everyone send an email to Disney to change their policy of lining up for the buses. I finally got a phone call and all she said was they are looking into it so let our voices be heard!!!!

Wonderful! I am so glad you got a reply and that WDW is looking into this issue!

 

[A Mickeyfan]

The main reason why they can load the way they do at the resorts is because there is not usually a large amount of people that are getting on at one time. Most of the time when a bus is picking up at a resort they will only take a few people not the full crush load that they do at the end of the night so loading a wheelchair or ECV isn’t that much of a problem.


Yes ADA is for all disabilities but the reason for loading wheelchairs and ECV’s the way they do is so that the bus driver can get them in the right spot and strapped in whatever way is necessary for the particular vehicle.
Also when the lines for the buses get very busy what they will do is pull up a send bus beside the first one so that only the front door is accessible. Well this may be unfair to someone in a wheelchair or ECV Disney needs to get people out of those corals as quick as they can and sometimes loading a wheelchair or ECV can take a while. Also remember on any given day WDW Transportation moves the equivalent of the population of New York City.

I understand why they load and how they load.. I made my comment due to the understanding of the ADA and how some state that those with the mobility issues are protected under the ADA guidelines. While this is true for many that visit the resorts, is not true for all So while one must give up their seat to a party who arrives just as the bus is pulling in, it isn't always due to ADA guidelines, it can because someone came with a wheelchair.
I know that Disney does transport close to the number of those that NYC does.. (I'm a former City girl here.. worked in the Empire State Bldg way back when and my husband used to drive for Liberty Lines Transportation in Westchester County going into the City) I would also say that Disney must load more wheelchairs in one hour than the City buses do and they must load faster at times too...
My bottom line is fairness for all involved.. there are many parents there on the lines at the end of the night with tired children in strollers who zig zag in and out of those lines. These children can be Autistic, ADHD, some may be prone to melt downs. Is it fair they must wait longer because Mary & her family arrive as the bus pulls in so they load first causing maybe the family with the Autistic child having a meltdown to wait for yet another bus Mary has a broken leg... she can wait for another bus.. the Autistic child's family do have a legit reason to be boarded and on their way... just because the child can "walk" doesn't mean they can wait longer.. Disney needs to come up with a better alternative for all... not just those with the mobility issues. If you are online first, you should get boarded. If you come as the bus pulls up and there may not be room for you, then you should not board.. this is my point.

I know these threads have existed before on the debates of what is fair and what isn't and it never turns out nice. Seems there isn't ever an agreement other than agree to disagree on some things. It does seem that Disney is trying other alternatives to see what will work and what won't. I give them credit for that right now. Maybe they just need to make the roped area a little wider for the chairs to be able to make the turns better so there won't be any more accidents with anyone falling over. All I know is something needs to be done to be make it fair, as well as safe for all guests.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

My bottom line is fairness for all involved.. there are many parents there on the lines at the end of the night with tired children in strollers who zig zag in and out of those lines. These children can be Autistic, ADHD, some may be prone to melt downs. Is it fair they must wait longer because Mary & her family arrive as the bus pulls in so they load first causing maybe the family with the Autistic child having a meltdown to wait for yet another bus Mary has a broken leg... she can wait for another bus.. the Autistic child's family do have a legit reason to be boarded and on their way... just because the child can "walk" doesn't mean they can wait longer.. Disney needs to come up with a better alternative for all... not just those with the mobility issues. If you are online first, you should get boarded. If you come as the bus pulls up and there may not be room for you, then you should not board.. this is my point.

Well they may have special needs for their child is ADHD and Autism actually covered under ADA. Also keep in mind they do not allow people with the stroller as a wheelchair tag to board a bus by the back with wheelchairs. They only do that with Wheelchairs and ECVs. I think on the buses all strollers must be folded.

 

[disney david]

Well they may have special needs for their child is ADHD and Autism actually covered under ADA. Also keep in mind they do not allow people with the stroller as a wheelchair tag to board a bus by the back with wheelchairs. They only do that with Wheelchairs and ECVs. I think on the buses all strollers must be folded.

on all buses strollers have to be folded and kept clear of the isle. unless it a has transportation tie down points because if it dose not have the tie down points then the frame may get bent. Disney drivers will let a guest go through the back door with a special needs stroller and then transfer to a seat if they can't tie down the stroller. it is disney policy to let guest who may need the ramp due to using a cane, walker or may need level ground to board the bus.

 

[BillSears]

...If you are online first, you should get boarded...

I agree but it doesn't work that way for wheelchair users. I've waited in line leaving EPCOT. Got to the front of the line and then watched 4 full bus loads of people who were BEHIND me in line leave before I could get onto the bus. I was the last person waiting all by myself for a bus. Everyone in line behind me got to board and leave before there was room for me on a bus.

Now this was an unusual event but it does happen. When you send buses off with empty tie down spots the wheelchair line can back up. Due to double loading and not allowing wheelchair users to board a bus once regular loading has begun the wheelchair line can get long at the end of the night. Sending wheelchair users through the regular line and then into a new separate line that no one else has to go through isn't fair.

Find some way to guarantee that when I get to the front of the line then I can board the bus and I'll support it 100%.

Here's the link to the thread about that night.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2583052

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Well they may have special needs for their child is ADHD and Autism actually covered under ADA. Also keep in mind they do not allow people with the stroller as a wheelchair tag to board a bus by the back with wheelchairs. They only do that with Wheelchairs and ECVs. I think on the buses all strollers must be folded.

Did you really read my post I didn't say the all the children covered under the ADA could not walk, I said just because the child could walk is it fair they wait..
Also, if they are in a regular stroller, they cannot be boarded from the back, only the medical strollers can. The bus doesn't use GAC cards... The driver isn't going to care if the child has melt downs, sitting in a regular stroller will not get them loaded first in the back of the bus.. Or did you not realize this I think maybe it is just time for me to agree to disagree on the fairness & safety dealing with the entire situation and again state that I commend Disney for trying other alternatives for all involved.

 

[SueM in MN]

Here's an example from our trip in March 2011.
My family was at Epcot and DD, who uses a wheelchair, was tired and went back to OKW with her dad.
The other 5 of us decided to walk to Boardwalk and take the bus from there to Downtown Disney. All of the Boardwalk area resorts share a bus and the Boardwalk resort is the last stop.
When we got to the stop, there were about 10 people waiting for various buses, including a woman in a wheelchair with a male companion. We asked if a DTD had been there recently. The other guests said they had only been there a few minutes and had not seen one.
The woman in the wheelchair said they had been there about 30 minutes and the DTD bus should be coming shortly because the last one had arrived about 10 minutes after they got to the stop. They wanted to go to DTD, but had not been able to get on that bus because it was too full.
We talked to them a bit while we were waiting and they said, while they liked the Boardwalk area resorts because of the ease of getting to Epcot and the Studio, they probably would not stay there again because of getting anywhere else by bus was a pain and they had usually not been able to get on the first bus that arrived.
We waited about 10 more minutes for the next DTD bus to arrive - it was also too full for the guest with a wheelchair to be loaded. The driver suggested they go to another stop because Boardwalk was the last stop and the bus would be likely be too full when it got there. The man said they had tried that, but the bus was too full with returning guests who were planning to get off at later stops, so that didn't work either.

So anyway, my party of 5 got on the bus and all got seats. The rest of the walking guests waiting for the bus got on, even though they arrived after us. I could not see everyone who got on, but, including us, there were at least 12.
We had all arrived after the guests with the wheelchair, but we got on and our bus was the second that guest with a wheelchair had not gotten on.

So fair? No.
I don't think there is a way to be totally fair.

And, GACs are not used for the bus, but a regular stroller with a stroller as wheelchair sticker will be loaded the same as a wheelchair.

 

[retired and happy]

We were there from mid-Dec to mid-Jan and used busses at all the parks except MK. We NEVER went through the queue, but went outside the chains near where the back door of the bus would be. As the bus approached, we held up two fingers indicating the number of wheelchairs in our party. Once we had to wait for the next bus (which the first driver said he would call for), and a couple of times we had to split our party if we wanted to get back to the Fort quickly. But we were always accommodated rather quickly. No complaints from us....and we heard no complaints from others about us loading first. At the Fort, I felt bad a few times if we loaded, only to go a couple of stops, then exited disturbing and delaying other passengers. most of the time the other passengers talked to our kids and enjoyed their company. Disney is a wonderful place to visit. Who wouldn't want to live there.

 

[Nanajo1]

Why didn't the 2nd bus driver call dispatch and alert them to the problem? It seems to me that more should have been done to help out.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Did you really read my post I didn't say the all the children covered under the ADA could not walk, I said just because the child could walk is it fair they wait..
Also, if they are in a regular stroller, they cannot be boarded from the back, only the medical strollers can. The bus doesn't use GAC cards... The driver isn't going to care if the child has melt downs, sitting in a regular stroller will not get them loaded first in the back of the bus.. Or did you not realize this I think maybe it is just time for me to agree to disagree on the fairness & safety dealing with the entire situation and again state that I commend Disney for trying other alternatives for all involved.

I'm sorry I must not have gotten all of what you meant. I though you were trying to say that a child having a melt down in the middle of the line should be allowed to cut a head of everyone else just because they are Autistic.