DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey

[AnnaKristoff2013]

But I still believe that when they start this they may not choose to add the few points they own at sold out resorts, and that the addition of those units won’t happen until they have a decent amount of ownership back at a resort to make it viable.

I agree with you on this.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm not so sure. One of the most powerful tools on the sales floor is the "wish book"--look at all the places you can go!

 

[walt34]

I'm not so sure. One of the most powerful tools on the sales floor is the "wish book"--look at all the places you can go!

I agree. Otherwise they will have to explain why some resorts available with DVC 1 are not available with DVC 2. Potentially raises more questions than the chance of actually getting a room at a specific resort with DVC 2.

 

[Sandisw]

I agree. Otherwise they will have to explain why some resorts available with DVC 1 are not available with DVC 2. Potentially raises more questions than the chance of actually getting a room at a specific resort with DVC 2.

Except all resorts are available….its just when you get access to book them changes….as I said, you start with having priority booking at RIV, VDH, Poly tower, AUL, and CFW…with the deeded option you have to choose one.

At 7 months, you get access to the rest…eventually, some of those other resorts get added for priority booking, and so does every new resort moving forward…

None of us know how DVD plans to operate this new trust…we just know it’s been created, DVCMC will be the management company, they left themselves the option to put restrictions when a member wants to transfer its ownership, and that currently, there are no properties.

I do think there are enough owners, though, who will become involved to ensure that whatever is done is not a conflict.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Re Poly2, this all just sounds so complicated for a sales pitch to less informed buyers. Ok, you can stay in the new tower if you buy resale points, plus seven month advantage elsewhere except the new stuff. If you buy this trust thing, you can stay in the new tower with a ten month window, not 11 month like Poly owners, plus get a ten month advantage at a bunch of these other resorts we can’t sell, in which you probably don’t want to stay since we’re having so much trouble selling them, but none of the other signature resorts which are the reason people like DVC.

So, um, can I buy direct Poly points so I can book at Riviera and VDH at 7 months, and I guess Aulani too, so I’d have an 11 month advantage at the Poly Tower, not ten months, but I wouldn’t really need that at Aulani and we never go to Disneyland so would I really need the grab bag trust, but the trust is cheaper, right?

So, um, can I use the trust at Copper Creek, cause my family really likes it, or should I buy direct points from you there at a particular use year and use them at the new Poly Tower. Isn’t that how it works? No? But the trust doesn’t work at Copper Creek, right?

So, does the trust work at VGF and Boardwalk? Yes? No? Or, depending on the amount of points, maybe?

To me, the marketability of this trust concept sounds a bit dubious.

 

[Disdreaming479]

I would imagine that west coast based trust buyers would surely be disappointed to find mostly florida rooms available most of the time.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I don’t see them doing this. There’s money to be made by doing it both ways. They may try to steer people towards the trust with better incentives, but I’m confident if you want to pay they’ll still sell you a legacy deed.

Maybe, nobody really knows. I could see them assigning some portion of the Poly Tower to DVC 1.0 but then price it so high that people will gravitate to DVC 2.0. Basically saying, "Okay, we'll sell you just the Poly Tower points, but you'll pay a premium." They already do this with selling points at "sold-out" resorts.

 

[walt34]

Except all resorts are available….its just when you get access to book them changes….as I said, you start with having priority booking at RIV, VDH, Poly tower, AUL, and CFW…with the deeded option you have to choose one.

Maybe you are right. It will certainly lead to disappointment, when some resorts are just not bookable at 7 months but this is not really new.

Assuming that they will offer a way to convert points to the new system, they will have a gradually increasing inventory of home resort points at desirable and not so desirable locations. They might ROFR even more.

At what point will they be offering 11 months booking at not-new resorts to the 'trust people'? I cannot imagine them sitting on those points only using them at 7 months? Is there a mechanism in the existing contracts that prevents them from using those points for this purpose? The max points limit does not apply to DVC itself and they can rent - so, in theory, they could offer 11 months booking at BCV from the start?

 

[BeachClub2014]

Re Poly2, this all just sounds so complicated for a sales pitch to less informed buyers. Ok, you can stay in the new tower if you buy resale points, plus seven month advantage elsewhere except the new stuff. If you buy this trust thing, you can stay in the new tower with a ten month window, not 11 month like Poly owners, plus get a ten month advantage at a bunch of these other resorts we can’t sell, in which you probably don’t want to stay since we’re having so much trouble selling them, but none of the other signature resorts which are the reason people like DVC.

So, um, can I buy direct Poly points so I can book at Riviera and VDH at 7 months, and I guess Aulani too, so I’d have an 11 month advantage at the Poly Tower, not ten months, but I wouldn’t really need that at Aulani and we never go to Disneyland so would I really need the grab bag trust, but the trust is cheaper, right?

So, um, can I use the trust at Copper Creek, cause my family really likes it, or should I buy direct points from you there at a particular use year and use them at the new Poly Tower. Isn’t that how it works? No? But the trust doesn’t work at Copper Creek, right?

So, does the trust work at VGF and Boardwalk? Yes? No? Or, depending on the amount of points, maybe?

To me, the marketability of this trust concept sounds a bit dubious.

The thing is, though, I don't think DVC has actually said that. Yvonne Chang said the plan is to have it part of the existing resort, but didn't elaborate on how. With the potential advent of DVC 2.0 via the Trust, it may mean that DVC 1.0 points can't be used at the Tower.

 

[Sandisw]

Maybe you are right. It will certainly lead to disappointment, when some resorts are just not bookable at 7 months but this is not really new.

Assuming that they will offer a way to convert points to the new system, they will have a gradually increasing inventory of home resort points at desirable and not so desirable locations. They might ROFR even more.

At what point will they be offering 11 months booking at not-new resorts to the 'trust people'? I cannot imagine them sitting on those points only using them at 7 months? Is there a mechanism in the existing contracts that prevents them from using those points for this purpose? The max points limit does not apply to DVC itself and they can rent - so, in theory, they could offer 11 months booking at BCV from the start?

Owners end up with priority booking when DVD owns enough points to add it as a priority location?

Or, as I shared above, they set a system where deeded owners get 11 month, and trust get 10 months for trust owned points at those resorts and then they add whatever they want

Since, as a deeded owner I am only guaranteed a one month advance, to me that would work, However, until DVD owns enough points at a sold out resort, I don’t know why they would bother until the do,

What’s the sense of promoting a resort when you know you only have enough points for the trust members to book a handful of nights every year.

 

[smmora]

Wasn't there something about other "hotels" getting dvc conversions?

Any possibility the trust will be a lower level that maybe has a different cost point.

So you have the deluxe DVC and then DVC trust that has moderate accommodations

 

[BeachClub2014]

Owners end up with priority booking when DVD owns enough points to add it as a priority location?

Or, as I shared above, they set a system where deeded owners get 11 month, and trust get 10 months for trust owned points at those resorts and then they add whatever they want

Since, as a deeded owner I am only guaranteed a one month advance, to me that would work, However, until DVD owns enough points at a sold out resort, I don’t know why they would bother until the do,

What’s the sense of promoting a resort when you know you only have enough points for the trust members to book a handful of nights every year.

Heck, they've been doing that forever, hence the wiggle phrase: "subject to availability." When they market the current DVC, they tell you that you can use your points at any of the DVC resorts, etc., with the caveat of subject to availability. Reality suggests that with several resorts and many room categories, that just isn't likely.

 

[Sandisw]

The thing is, though, I don't think DVC has actually said that. Yvonne Chang said the plan is to have it part of the existing resort, but didn't elaborate on how. With the potential advent of DVC 2.0 via the Trust, it may mean that DVC 1.0 points can't be used at the Tower.

Any units added to the PVB assocation have to be eliglbe for any and all PVB points. But, of nothing prevents DVD from declaring only a small number of Poly tower rooms to PVB, and then deciding to create a new association to add the rest to the system via the trust.

This trust idea really could be done in so many different ways and chances are, however, DVD does it will be something none of us think of? Lol

I think it’s why I keep going back to thinking that DVd might not worry about adding units from sold out resorts to the trust anytime soon…

 

[Sandisw]

Heck, they've been doing that forever, hence the wiggle phrase: "subject to availability." When they market the current DVC, they tell you that you can use your points at any of the DVC resorts, etc., with the caveat of subject to availability. Reality suggests that with several resorts and many room categories, that just isn't likely.

That is a fair point…but in the current system, you are at least buying an interest in a specific resort where you only compete with owners at the resort.

This trust thing has you competing for all the resort properties added with lots and lots of trust members, plus those who actually own the resort, so getting anything priority at a popular resort is tough.

At least now, no one has ever been completely locked out of their home resort with an 11 month booking..maybe not the room size you want,

 

[BeachClub2014]

That is a fair point…but in the current system, you are at least buying an interest in a specific resort where you only compete with owners at the resort.

This trust thing has you competing for all the resort properties added with lots and lots of trust members, plus those who actually own the resort, so getting anything priority at a popular resort is tough.

At least now, no one has ever been completely locked out of their home resort with an 11 month booking..maybe not the room size you want,

Oh, I totally get that and don't disagree that DVC 2.0 is an animal of a different stripe.

I'm just suggesting that, from a marketing standpoint, it makes more sense (to me anyway, but what the heck do I know?) to be able to say (legally) that if one buys a membership in DVC 2.0, then you have access to all of the same offerings as DVC 1.0. That's why I agree with @briannoble not to be surprised to see DVC load points from DVC 1.0 into DVC 2.0. You want the whole shebang available if you're DVC.

 

[Sandisw]

Oh, I totally get that and don't disagree that DVC 2.0 is an animal of a different stripe.

I'm just suggesting that, from a marketing standpoint, it makes more sense (to me anyway, but what the heck do I know?) to be able to say (legally) that if one buys a membership in DVC 2.0, then you have access to all of the same offerings as DVC 1.0. That's why I agree with @briannoble not to be surprised to see DVC load points from DVC 1.0 into DVC 2.0. You want the whole shebang available if you're DVC.

As long as they can find a way to ensure it doesn’t violate the current POS…

 

[walt34]

What’s the sense of promoting a resort when you know you only have enough points for the trust members to book a handful of nights every year.

If they offer some kind of conversion from DVC 1 to DVC trust, they can reach 5-10% relatively quickly, I would assume. ROFR, if they are willing to invest the money, could add to that. This wouldn't be a handful of nights a year but thousands of nights per year. And the benefit would be that they could offer all resorts as bookable with 'home resort priority' (and limited availability in the fine print).

Why do you assume that they would only be offering booking at 10 months? I understand that currently owners are guaranteed a one month advantage compared to other members but wouldn't the new trust count as a resort owner?

 

[Paul Stupin]

The thing is, though, I don't think DVC has actually said that. Yvonne Chang said the plan is to have it part of the existing resort, but didn't elaborate on how. With the potential advent of DVC 2.0 via the Trust, it may mean that DVC 1.0 points can't be used at the Tower.

I guess you can parse each word she said for perceived ambiguity in a court of law, but, c’mon, her meaning, and all it implies, was pretty clear. Aside from deliberately trying to deceive poly owners into thinking they’re going to benefit when they’re not, pulling an unforeseen loophole out of thin air several months down the line (like a deal with a genii!), she wouldn’t have had any other reason to answer the question. She could have easily dodged it, but didn’t.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I would imagine that west coast based trust buyers would surely be disappointed to find mostly florida rooms available most of the time.

I'm not sure that will be the case as I expect a lot of VDH to be in the trust.

 

[Sandisw]

If they offer some kind of conversion from DVC 1 to DVC trust, they can reach 5-10% relatively quickly, I would assume. ROFR, if they are willing to invest the money, could add to that. This wouldn't be a handful of nights a year but thousands of nights per year. And the benefit would be that they could offer all resorts as bookable with 'home resort priority' (and limited availability in the fine print).

Why do you assume that they would only be offering booking at 10 months? I understand that currently owners are guaranteed a one month advantage compared to other members but wouldn't the new trust count as a resort owner?

The reason I mentioned that as an idea is that I think giving a trust set up the same booking window, with so many members accessing points at the same time, when current owners are restricted to booking one reservation at a time, could be a conflict with the POS for the current resorts.

I am not convinced that they can set this up to give access to all rooms every day to that many people when I don’t have that ability and the current POS requires DVD to follow the same booking rules as regular owners.

But, by giving the deeded owner a one month advantage to use their points, during the normal 4 month home resort period, it seems to me it would align with the current contract.

Of course, trust owned points have the same rules as the rest of us…I just think if you are going to add partial units to the trust…and that is what has to happen because they don’t add points, they add properties…it could potentially prevent deeded owners from saying the POS is being violated?

And, if someone who owns a deeded interest, wants to convert to be a trust member, they are basically selling their contract back to DVD, and rebuying RTU points like they are a renter.

Just my ideas on how it could work to run the two together.