DEBATE: Disney for Dummies!! One man’s opinion!!

Originally posted by Sarangel
I'm sorry, but this one has always bothered me:Walt Disney World is a memorial to Walt from his brother Roy. Walt died before more than the most preliminary drawings were done. Yes, it incorporates many of his ideas & was built by craftsmen who understood his philosophy, but Walt had very little to do with 'the Florida Project.'
Sarangel

Thank you for clearing up my error. The point I was trying to make was that The place was NAMED Walt Disney World and anyone who tries to run it may not be as concerned with the quality if it wasn't considered a direct reflection of his name of that of his family's. In my opinion.
 
Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
WOW!!!! You gotta like this guy right from the start! :bounce: First post and it’s a beaut!! You should try it sometime. It’s a lot of fun!! And Pre$$ler is even more fun!!

Ei$ner Ei$ner Ei$ner Ei$ner Ei$ner Ei$ner Ei$ner...

OK, you're right. It's fun.


Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
But seriously, you’re blaming profits as the culprit in this disaster. You’ve got it wrong, my friend. It is short term thinking and excessive greed along with a great amount of knuckleheadedness (Ei$ner’s propensity to be terribly inept) that has led to the stock trading today at $14 something a share! [/B]

Short term thinking on whose part? And here we have the problem. In today's trading environment, quarterly numbers matter more than long term growth potential. That's not Ei$ner's (oops, slipped there) fault. That's the fault of greedy inve$tor's thinking that growth should occur every quarter forever. We know that idea must be incorrect - simple math will tell us that, yet we (as inve$tors) demand it. So that's the environment that any CEO of Disney or any other public company will work in. Maybe the way stocks are trading recently will teach us all to go back to investment fundamentals.

I'm not saying that I agree with everything Eisner has done. Obviously in my first post, you can tell that I have a real problem with many of the current decisions. But remember that because of the short term mentality of inve$tors today, making a huge investment in a new park or attraction represents more risk to him than it would have in the past. He learned that in a big way with EDL. I think that with him there has been a pendulum (sp?)at work, and that with EDL, it probably swung too far in the direction of huge capital investments and risk taking. Now it has swung too far in the other direction, with attempts to minimize capital investments and reduce costs, while still growing the company.

Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
I contend that if he had kept the business model of Walt as a basic and fundamental philosophy, he could have made me happy (and by that I mean kept to the Walt ideal) AND made GOBS of money!!! Perhaps you disagree with that. If not, there’s not much more to discuss. If so, why?Well, if you know me at all, you know I despise personal preference lists, but I really gotta ask: Such as? I mean, how did they “dramatically improve” anything!?!? (Now, I’m giving you a lot of room for me to concede things. Animation comes to mind and there may be others. But it ain’t much and I don’t think it comes anywhere close to “Dramatically”.) [/B]

It may have made big money, and may not have. Not sure about that. Depends on how much it costs to build and maintain it. As far as dramtic improvements, I should have elaborated more. My thinking is dramtic improvements over prior management (Card Walker, etc..). Although that group was able to open Epcot, it was a pale image of what Walt had in mind. The company was in financial trouble, and Eisner and Wells dramatically turned that around. Both live action and animation are clear examples of that. If we want to talk about specific impact to the parks, I noticed a very conscious attempt to raise quality from say 1984 until 1994. I notice some of these things more than others would because I visit the parks frequently. For instance, the entrance to Liberty Square in the MK was redone and looks much better. The partners statue at the hub and the fact that the terrible black pavement in FL and Dumbo has all been redone. These are examples of things that will have no bearing on bottom line profit, and had not been done in the past. Maybe that's not dramatic, but I really appreciated it.


Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
Wait!! After all that!! That wonderfully worded paragraph. You still think the current regime is the one to head Disney? You really think they “get it”? [/B]

I'm not sure if they don't get it, or if they think they are constrained by what they think the market will bear. If you had asked me that question on April 12, 1992 (opening day of EDL), I would have said yes, they get it. So was it only Frank Wells that got it? I don't think so. One thing's for sure: it's not always true that if you build quality and give people the best that you can, that you will make money. Wells and Eisner worked together well as a team, but it's only been Eisner that's had to deal with company expansion post EDL. I'm not sure what changes Wells would have made.

One thing that we disagree on is that it is easy to find a replacement for Eisner. There are lots of CEOs that fail. I just don't think it's an easy position.

As for Disney being aquired by someone else, just ask how the people at Universal feel reporting to a French water and sewer company who has them on the block. I may have disagreed with several of Eisner's recent decisions, but at least whoever is in that position can make a final decision and not have to bounce it up another level.

Man, It takes too long to do this, and my brain hurts. Thanks for the debate!!
 
WEDWAY100!! I thought you’d gone away. Even if it is a long time between posts, I can tell you’re going to be a lot of FUN!! :bounce:

So let’s get at it, shall we?
Short term thinking on whose part?
On Ei$ner’s part, of course. Now, I agree with an awful lot of what you say in you’re assessment of modern day investing. But I think that much too much emphasis is placed on it.

It is important to keep in mind that the type of LONG TERM thinking that I say they lack, is definitely NOT exclusive. There is no reason in the world why both short term (quarterly, even yearly) cannot coexist with a carefully thought out long term plan. In fact, in my opinion, there is every reason in the world to encourage that type of thinking!! I never said that they should concentrate solely on the long term to the exclusion of any short-term gains. But they have so skewed their plan that there is NO long term thinking (let alone planning) at all!! EVERYTHING, every ounce of their beings, is going into bolstering the next quarter’s bottom line. And most of the time it is an inflated picture, painted as rosy as possible, and being financed and funded by “the parks”, to their LONG TERM detriment!! Don’t you agree?

And please remember that the short term thinking I was referring to is just one aspect of several other (and perhaps even larger) problems with the current management. The other two (and there are probably hundreds more) are ‘excessive greed’ and sheer ‘knuckleheadedness’.

Now, maybe it’s only me, but I’m getting a little upset reading the recent stock quotes for Disney, seeing my hard earned cash going down the toilet and at the same time realizing that Ei$ner has a quarter of a billion in his pocket and he won’t even keep the MK opened a measly extra hour for me in the middle of July!! I’ll admit that there’s some mixed up thinking there on my part. But I just can’t help feeling a little screwed over at times by this guy!! So the esoteric conglomerate concepts mixes with the highly personal feelings and comes spewing out of my fingers and onto the keyboard in rants calling for the tar and feathering of the guy who’s causing me pain!!

And the last of my major complaints is his ‘knuckleheadedness’. Now, we’ve been through it all before on this site, and I’m definitely NOT the money and accounting type (more your Disney philosopher type I think ;)), but I believe that for the same amount, or even substantially less in some cases, significant investments can be made in “The Parks” than is spent on stupidity (i.e. ABC, some cable outlets, big budget bombs, etc.). There are many here who deal with these numbers and the logic behind them all the time (Mr. Head, AV). They may be able to fully debate the issue. I can merely point to the failures and say, “See guy!! I couldn’t tell you why, but I did tell you I felt this was a bad move. And I was right!!” I guess the bottom line for me, and most of the world the past few days, is Ei$ner is just inept. Period!

He learned that in a big way with EDL.
I am afraid you are right. He did learn that lesson in Paris. However, as typical of character and indicative of his ‘knuckleheadedness’, he learned the WRONG lesson. What he should have learned is that WDI knew what they were doing when planning the parks and hotels. What he should have learned was to keep his micro managing nose out of things that are clearly over his head. What he should have learned was that he was an upper class American, not French or European, so he may not have ‘instinctively’ known all the answers. Instead, he learned NOT to do things the Disney way. See!!! The guy’s a knucklehead!! Plain and simple!!

I think that with him there has been a pendulum (sp?)at work, and that with EDL, it probably swung too far in the direction of huge capital investments and risk taking.
First off your spelling is impeccable (not that I would know without my spellchecker, but “pendulum” didn’t pop up!!) Anyway, you say that it swung too far in the direction of “huge capital investments and risk taking”. But do you know what direction that was? It was in the resort area that he micro managed the project into the ground, over the strong objections of WDI. One of the first and another clear example of his ‘knuckleheadedness’.

My thinking is dramatic improvements over prior management (Card Walker, etc..). Although that group was able to open Epcot, it was a pale image of what Walt had in mind.
Oh!! On this we agree!! Very pale. And there are other threads currently alive that point to this concept. But to just leave the sentence out there that, “it was a pale image of what Walt had in mind” leaves the impression that the Walker/Miller administration was nothing but pale. And yet they had the ba... the ah… well… they had the “GUTS” to build a theme park that was radically different than anything on the face of the planet. And to the tune of a BILLION dollars of risk!! And it became second only to their own MK. Not bad, I’d say. And you really have to consider that, for good or bad, they were terribly constrained in concept, as they really tried to at least keep the ideal, however loosely, of their mentor. I personally believe that Ei$ner would have rejected EPCOT immediately with no further consideration. So, in retrospect, I think Walker/Miller did a damned good job of it!! Much better than Ei$ner would have done. Don’t you?

The company was in financial trouble, and Eisner and Wells dramatically turned that around.
WRONG!!! I’m sorry!! Thanks for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts!

Seriously. This one really bothers me. And everyone thinks it at one time or another. Even I did. The truth of the matter is that they were NOT in “financial trouble”. They had under developed and unused asset that made them very ripe for a take over. They had vast real-estate holding which had risen to unbelievable heights because it was situated next to WDW in Florida that were not being utilized to its full potential. And they were sitting on a film vault that was better than a gold mine; it was a cash machine!! Now they did get lucky with Katzenberg. The Studio segment of the business soared with him in charge. But it soared in spite of Ei$ner, not because of him. And it failed miserably after Ei$ner gave him the boot. So in reality, all Ei$ner and crew did, was nothing more that an undergrad college student would have done with a couple of business courses under his belt. He unlocked the film vault money making machine and built up the Florida land holdings. I really want to know what else he (and even Frank Wells) did that was so dramatic?

Both live action and animation are clear examples of that.
Well, I must say that Jeff K. did a wonderful job!! But remember that The Little Mermaid was well in development under the Walker/Miller reign. And also remember that EI$ner didn’t like the project. He didn’t want to do it. His “BIGGIE” and personal favorite was The Rescuers Down Under”!! Sorry. But I have to say it again: Another clear example of his ‘knuckleheadedness’.
For instance, the entrance to Liberty Square in the MK was redone and looks much better. The partners statue at the hub and the fact that the terrible black pavement in FL and Dumbo has all been redone. These are examples of things that will have no bearing on bottom line profit, and had not been done in the past. Maybe that's not dramatic, but I really appreciated it.
OH MY GOD!!! Don’t say that again!! Of course it has a bearing on the bottom line!!! My goodness!! It is EXACTLY what I’m all about!!! “These are the things that dreams are made of!!” (Obscure movie reference!) ;)

And you noticed some improvements that coincided with Ei$ner’s beginning. Fair enough!! LET’S TALK MAINTENANCE!! Let’s talk Paul Pre$$ler and Disneyland!! Let’s talk Paul Pre$$ler and WDW a couple of years ago!!! Nothing and I mean NOTHING in the Walker/Miller era could even come close to the dilapidated shape of the parks under his reign!! And to be honest, I really didn’t notice, and not many have posted, about the sorry condition of the parks before Ei$ner took the helm. Quite the contrary. They usually say the opposite.
One thing that we disagree on is that it is easy to find a replacement for Eisner
WHOA!!! I think you misunderstand what I said. And in all fairness I may have said it wrong (I don’t know and I’m way to lazy to look it up!)!! I said (I think) that ANYONE. Who “Got It” would be better than Ei$ner. And I truly believe that. But only in the sense that it would be no worse at all and probably a little better. I believe, for a company like Disney he is the worst! We need someone with a vision, and someone who not only will attend Traditions, but also understands the underlying principles that are taught there. It is, after all, a somewhat unique company.

No, It will not be easy to find a replacement. It’s only easy to find someone who won’t screw it up as much as Ei$ner. Any poster on this board who do better, at least as far as the parks go. But to find a true leader, the will guide Disney to the very top of it’s game and that fully “Gets It”? Very hard indeed!!
As for Disney being acquired by someone else, just ask how the people at Universal feel reporting to a French water and sewer company who has them on the block.
And yet I see WONDERFUL things coming from the northwest direction I-4. Why is this, do you suppose?

I may have disagreed with several of Eisner's recent decisions, but at least whoever is in that position can make a final decision and not have to bounce it up another level.
What difference does it make if the ultimate decision turns out WRONG anyway??!! What’s the difference between a ‘higher level’ allowing them to build a very “Disney-like” park or a sole decision maker getting it wrong? Or worse yet, being inept!

Man, It takes too long to do this, and my brain hurts. Thanks for the debate!!
Ahhh! No, my friend!! The pleasure is all mine! I THANK YOU!!!! :bounce:

And if it’s any comfort, my brain hurts, too!! :crazy:



PS: I like your name!! They should never have let WEDWAY or least the concept of it go by the wayside!!!
 
When good long-term planning is strong for a long period of time, and then goes by the wayside, it takes awhile before it shows up in the numbers. After all, that's why its called long-term planning. The effects, good or bad, usually don't show-up right away.

The problem is that once the negative effects do show-up, you've got a serious problem. It takes an up-front investment to reverse the trend, and the positive impact likely won't be felt for at least a few quarters, and maybe even a year or two. That's not what Wall Street wants to hear from somebody who has managed a company into declining performance.

So even if the light bulb did go off in Eisner's head, I'm not sure he could do anything about it now anyway.
 
So even if the light bulb did go off in Eisner's head, I'm not sure he could do anything about it now anyway.

Matt, that's a view I've held as well. If Eisner was literally possessed by the spirit of Walt with every great idea in the world, Wall Street, the investors, and the board STILL wouldn't trust him to turn it around.
 
Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
Seriously. This one really bothers me. And everyone thinks it at one time or another. Even I did. The truth of the matter is that they were NOT in “financial trouble”.....

...So in reality, all Ei$ner and crew did, was nothing more that an undergrad college student would have done with a couple of business courses under his belt.

I may be wrong about this, but if I remember correctly, profits were decreasing every year, and the studio was capable of "B" movies at best. I have to admit that I liked Snowball Express, but the Apple Dumpling Gang never did anything for me. If my memory serves me right about the numbers, profits were under $100M/year. The business was shrinking. Now maybe Card Walker and Ron Miller should have hired an undergrad college student, because they didn't know how to use the assets they had. Ei$$$$$$$ner did. (Now THAT was fun!)

Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
What difference does it make if the ultimate decision turns out WRONG anyway??!! What’s the difference between a ‘higher level’ allowing them to build a very “Disney-like” park or a sole decision maker getting it wrong? Or worse yet, being inept![/B]

The point is that if the CEO is someone that we both agree "gets it", then I want them to have control.

Let's say that you, Mr. Landbaron, were now in Ei$ner'$$$$ position. You have a fabulous high quality idea to add a $300M E-ticket attraction to the parks. Since Disney is still its' own company, you could say, "So shall it be written, so shall it be done!" And just like that, thousands of new budget codes would be created.

But suppose that your predecessor had sold out to Vivendi a few years before you took office. You fly to France to convince the execs to give you the money. The conversation might go more like this:

LandB: I have a great idea for a $300M attraction. It will increase revenue and profit in our parks and resorts division!

V exec: No. We are installing ze X-2000 sewer filter this year, so zat our customers will have ze very clean toilet water. And by the way, ze X-2000 is $500M, so we will be needing extra profit from you this year.

LandB: But you can't have higher profits while letting the product deteriorate!

V exec: Go away. You annoy me. Viva la France!!!

Seriously, I agree with most of what you say, so we're really not that far apart. In all honesty, I am on the fence about Eisner and whether he should stay or go. If he goes, I just want the board to be very careful with who they hire.

Your turn...
 
Hello Mr. 100!! And welcome back!!

BTW, before we start Ei$$$$$$$ner is even too much for me!! ;) (but you're right!! It is fun!!! :crazy: )


The point is that if the CEO is someone that we both agree "gets it", then I want them to have control.
Exactly!! I agree!! That is indeed the best possible solution. But that's not what we were talking about. You see, there are more possibilities here. First we need to establish one tiny given that we can both agree on. A stipulation, if you will.

The current CEO is someone doesn't "get it"
I feel this is the current situation. Ei$ner doesn't "get it". Plain and simple. Never has, never will. If we accept this as a working premise we can explore options. Can we so stipulate?

If so, that leaves us with four possible scenarios. Two that 'get it' and two that don't. Also, two that are part of a bigger corporate structure and two where Disney stands alone.

The next CEO doesn't "get it" either but Disney is still stand alone.
There's not much of a potential for being better. And we really can't get much worse and remain competitive.

The next CEO Doesn't "get it" either and is part of a bigger corporate structure.
No better, that's for sure. And could be a little worse, but, but not by much. Hey! We're pretty close to bottom right now!!

The next CEO "gets it" but is part of a bigger corporate structure.
Better off!! And I'd venture to guess that we'd be much better off. We'd have a champion in our corner. An anti-Pre$$ler type, perhaps! You're right. It ain't perfect, but boy oh boy, it'd be GOBS better that what we have today!!

The next CEO "gets it" and Disney is still stand alone.
Much, much, much better off!! Walt reincarnate!! HOORAY!!! The LandBaron stops posting on the DIS!!! Spends untold amounts buying more DVC points!! Was heard say, "There's no such thing as enough points!!!!" He truly does become a (DVC) Landbaron!!! :bounce:

But suppose that your predecessor had sold out to Vivendi a few years before you took office. You fly to France to convince the execs to give you the money. The conversation might go more like this:...
I understand what you are saying. And in the long I have to agree. BUT!!

But, I contend that Disney has already been swallowed or 'sold out'. Ei$ner did that over the years turning the Disney company into MEGA-Disney!! A monolithic conglomerate that cannot possibly look at the parks as anything more than printing presses for cash. And I know it's selfish. And I know it's probably unrealistic. But I look at EVERY move this Corporation makes and relate it to how it affects MY parks!! And he has already sold us to the highest bidder. And that turns out to be ABC, GO.COM, under performing publishing companies, under performing animation studios, under performing film studios, etc. etc. etc!!

The list of his ineptness is almost endless!!!

Seriously, I agree with most of what you say, so we're really not that far apart. In all honesty, I am on the fence about Eisner and whether he should stay or go. If he goes, I just want the board to be very careful with who they hire.
I'm glad you agree. And I agree as well. I too, hope that board considers very carefully. Very carefully indeed. They need to hire someone who knows the difference between a commodity and the SHOW! And which one Disney should be 'selling'!!!
 
And he has already sold us to the highest bidder. And that turns out to be ABC, GO.COM, under performing publishing companies, under performing animation studios, under performing film studios, etc. etc. etc!!

that was awesome. never looked at it that way. i feel like ME is a pimp and the parks his H@3$. wow

ahh i just wanted to get my post count up

and my walt quote down there read sum more :p
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!





Latest posts







facebook twitter
Top