DEBATE: Did disney offer enough?????

[rasvar]

BobO, what part of the "real world" is a labor contract?? That is about as real as it gets. The 2 hours mandatory is for emergency situations if I understand what has been stated. Plus, I don't know if you have ever tried to mobilize and schedule work hours for thousands of people. You can't just take person A, who works at Spaceship Earth and throw him/her into running Space Mountain. You can take some food and beverage and transfer; but not all. Each restuarant is different. The attractions are harder to staff. Plus, CM's are "employees" not "slaves." Just because something unexpected happens, they may not be able to change their plans. You have to start paying folks a higher wage to expect "on-call" service. This was an unexpected incident. Disney did the best job they could. I am also willing to bet that there were plenty of CM's who did extend beyond what was expected to help. These folks probably got little more then an atta-boy and a few extra bucks in the check. This was one of those "freak" occurences. Now they can go back and look at what happened and see if adjustments need to be made. It seems, to me, they di as much as they could.

 

[eeyore0062]

Originally posted by Jasmine 13

2nd, BobO...were you there? did it affect you personally? No? Well then what are you complaining about?

I don't think she was asking you a question, Bob O. She was simply stating that since you weren't obviously there (yes, I have read the entire thread), then why are you complaining? It didn't affect you.


originally posted by Bob O

that response would be too extend the hours of all the parks beyond the 2hr contract limit!!

Yes, and they did extend 2 hours, as MKTiggerman so accurately described.

originally posted by MKTiggerman

So keeping the park open an extra hour would be the most they could do, because it would require an hour after park close to make sure everything is... well, closed.

That explains it... it doesn't go beyond a 2 hour limit, but only UP TO a 2 hour limit, and ONLY in emergency situations.

Since the fire wasn't discovered until after midnight, that only gave WDW officials about 6-8 hours to decide and prepare for alternatives. Given that small amount of time, I think that the guests were adequately, if not extrodinarily, compensated.

 

[mktiggerman]

Hey BobO,

here's an idea:

Why don't you write a letter to WDW Guest Communications about how you feel. The way they've been lately, you may get something out of it other than an apology...


thanks to everyone else for supporting me... it takes a LOT to pull me out of the CM forums, but this definitely did it.

 

[WDWHound]

For an unexpected circumstance that was mostly beyond their control, yes, it sounds like they did enough.

 

[Bob O]

mktiggerman-If i had been at wdw on the date the fire took place and thought my vacation was adversely affected i would consider writing a letter but i wouldnt write a letter trying to scam the company when i wasnt affected by what occurred.
eeyore0062-Well since someone on this post mentioned that the incident was a disaster then it should have been/could have considered a emergency which would have allowed the company to the company to have the workers work longer than the 2hr limit in the contract.
rasvar-Im sure most CM 's went above and beyond the call of duty and my comments are directed toward upper management and not the CM who makes the experience magical. I also havent had ANY negative dealings at all with the CM's who do a great job but do believe that managment has alot less concern for the guest experience than in the past and look at the theme parks as a cash cow to milk for all the lousy business decisions made by einser and his lackies. Ride operators cant be interchanged as easily or at all as compared to store employee's as example but if management felt this was a emergency and went to the union things can be worked out if they wanted it to be.
And real world in regards to life and death situations as in the miners who almost died while at work and the hundreds of thousands of people who put their life on the line everyday in this country, be it the military/fireman/nurses etc.

 

[mktiggerman]

Originally posted by Bob O
mktiggerman-If i had been at wdw on the date the fire took place and thought my vacation was adversely affected i would consider writing a letter but i wouldnt write a letter trying to scam the company when i wasnt affected by what occurred.

I didn't tell you to scam them. I said, send them a letter stating how you feel... there is nothing wrong with that... in fact, you may get more than a reply out of it... you may get another free vacation planning video (that was part of an inside joke, which I was referring to in the previous post... i'll be more clear next time)

Originally posted by Bob O
eeyore0062-Well since someone on this post mentioned that the incident was a disaster then it should have been/could have considered a emergency which would have allowed the company to the company to have the

actually, you misread what I posted. I said that management could only exercise the 2 hour extension during an emergency, and anything after 2 hours would be voluntary. Please re-read it.

Originally posted by Bob O
rasvar-Im sure most CM 's went above and beyond the call of duty and my comments are directed toward upper management and not the CM who makes the experience magical. I also havent had ANY negative dealings at all with the CM's who do a great job but do believe that managment has alot less concern for the guest experience than in the past and look at the theme parks as a cash cow to milk for all the lousy business decisions made by einser and his lackies. Ride operators cant be interchanged as easily or at all as compared to store employee's as example but if management felt this was a emergency and went to the union things can be worked out if they wanted it to be.

I'm sure they did too.. but however, short of an apology, and a refund, Disney was not obligated in any way to do anything else to rectify what happened at Epcot. They did what they did, and for no other reason than to avoid bad press. There I said it.

Originally posted by Bob O
And real world in regards to life and death situations as in the miners who almost died while at work and the hundreds of thousands of people who put their life on the line everyday in this country, be it the military/fireman/nurses etc.

I can see the validity of this statement, but comparing WDW, which isn't a national resource, to these other things, seems very unfair. This is a Disney discussion board, not a national emergency forum... so how can this relate to the story. If Disney did nothing to rectify closing epcot, no one would die or be injured. No one.

 

[Bob O]

mktiggerman- Somebody else made the reference to this being a disaster and not you. I never said disney was obligated to do anything. Legally speaking they didnt have to do anything, but for pr purposes/morally they felt they had to do something for their guests and the thrust of the post was did they offer enough to the guests who were at the parks. Well if someone was unaware of Epcot's closure and they died enroute(major hypothetical situation to be sure) you know some lawyer somewhere would file a suit blaming disney so if could be a life and death situation.(major stretch to be certain but i have no legit reponse. Obviously we have different viewpoints on the matter but it is always good to have a discussion on any issue!!

 

[epcotfan]

Originally posted by Bob O
The employee's could have been shuffled around to make up for this and it would have shwon that wdw truely values their guests IMHO.

Not necessarily. I think it would be a complete disaster moving a whole parks worth of employees around. It would probably cause more confusion that do good. Its nice an all to say yeah keep the parks open until midnight but what about the employees? That would be a schedule nightmare. Especially for those that absolutely cannot stay that long (those with kids, other jobs, etc...)

 

[mattjs]

Hate to break up a good fight but....

So far every single person I've seen post on this subject in various threads around the various message boards, who was actually there on the day in question, has stated that Disney was very gracious and did more than enough to make up for any inconvenience.

If you can't produce even one person who was there and feels that they were slighted in some way by Disney, then where are ya goin with this?

Is your argument then that all those people who were there are just too foolish to know what's good for them and BobO will inform them when they are to be satisfied and unsatisfied?

Produce a disgruntled guest or maybe just let it go.

 

[Bob O]

epcotfan-Any company has contingency plans to move employee's around to handle any type of situation. Might it have been confusing yes, but you deal with it. And the empoyees would just have to deal with it. I do so at my job all the time and they could do so also.
thedscoop i said that i was stretching things to the absurd as i had no legit response. But i am on vacation so i hope to imbibe in some Jeam Beam but not ruin my liver in the process.
mattjs Im sure if i scoured the web i could find some unhappy person somewhere but my intent was to throw the topic out for discussion and it will die its natural death as a topic.

 

[YoHo]

Heck Bob, not even Landbaron is on your side here. I think it's time to let the thread die. IT was a shining Disney moment, not an example of Greed and corruption.

 

[mktiggerman]

Originally posted by Bob O
mktiggerman- Somebody else made the reference to this being a disaster and not you. I never said disney was obligated to do anything. Legally speaking they didnt have to do anything, but for pr purposes/morally they felt they had to do something for their guests and the thrust of the post was did they offer enough to the guests who were at the parks. Well if someone was unaware of Epcot's closure and they died enroute(major hypothetical situation to be sure) you know some lawyer somewhere would file a suit blaming disney so if could be a life and death situation.(major stretch to be certain but i have no legit reponse. Obviously we have different viewpoints on the matter but it is always good to have a discussion on any issue!!

They did enough, and you are the only person who seems to disagree with mine (and apparently everyone elses) opinion on the matter. Disney did what they could have with the little time they had to plan. If all 4 parks had been closed, I can assure you they would have done more, since they had more cast to send to the resorts across WDW (like 9/11), but being that Epcot was the park that closed (which, BTW- Epcot has the least number of CM's of the 4 parks). The only cast they could've sent to the other locations were the Futureworld cast, since the WS Cast has Visas prohibiting them from working outside their location. So they had just under half the cast at Epcot that could be used, then factor in potential call-ins, and people who were off, I wouldn't be surprised if they had less than 500 CM's to pull from. Even though 500 may sound like a lot, remember, it takes more people to run a WDW attraction than a small company.

A for the liability, if someone died enroute to Epcot, they would have died whether the park was open or closed, thus dismissing any liability Disney may have had (in regard to the park being open/closed... if Disney was responsible for the death under a different circumstance -ie car accident - then they could be held liable).

 

[epcotfan]

Originally posted by Bob O
epcotfan-Any company has contingency plans to move employee's around to handle any type of situation. Might it have been confusing yes, but you deal with it. And the empoyees would just have to deal with it. I do so at my job all the time and they could do so also.

That entirely depends on how many staff are cross trained for certain attractions, fast food restaurants, etc... I could see being easily swapped generic jobs like ticket taking. (Same practice at every park) However for some attractions not everyone is going to be familiar with ride procedures. Some jobs require specific training for each location. I also don't see any point to moving all the employees around for one day only. Different if the park was to be shut down for longer. Not worth the scheduling and disorganization for one day.

 

[Bob O]

So then use the 500 and utilize them to the fullest to keep as many rests./attractions running as possible, way too many excuses of why things cant be done, or have we lost the can-do american spirit that has made this a great country???
I cant see how having a fire on your property forcing a park to get closed which gets nationwide attention is a shining moment for any company. The only thing that got attention in my neck of the woods was the fire and not the response. So would a even greater shining moment be having 2 parks closed by fires???(lol)

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

IT was a shining Disney moment, not an example of Greed and corruption.

Hmmm. I almost missed this one. Mr. YoHo, not quite. While I do agree it is not an example of greed and corruption, I also do not think it was a “shining moment”! They did what I would have minimally expected. They didn’t exceed my expectations at all. But they didn’t disappoint either. They took the safe, corporate route. Give them a little, spin it and tomorrow it will all go away. It was the comfortable answer for a company like Disney. As Mr. Head pointed out it was indeed an opportunity for the company to shine! They took a pass at that greatness and played it safe instead. How Ei$nerish!!!

 

[minnie56]

I am only speaking from a personal perspective...but we recently had an 'incident' at WDW and I am most impressed by the manner in which Disney settled our dispute.It kind of 'restored' my faith in a major corporation!!
They went above and beyond to take car of us!

 

[mktiggerman]

Originally posted by Bob O
So then use the 500 and utilize them to the fullest to keep as many rests./attractions running as possible, way too many excuses of why things cant be done, or have we lost the can-do american spirit that has made this a great country???
I cant see how having a fire on your property forcing a park to get closed which gets nationwide attention is a shining moment for any company. The only thing that got attention in my neck of the woods was the fire and not the response. So would a even greater shining moment be having 2 parks closed by fires???(lol)

when you run, or work for a company w/ over 100,000 employees, I'll listen to your arguments. Till then, i'm out of this one

 

[Bob O]

Im not critizing the CM's and i havent seen anybody on this thread complain about the job they did. Ive only had great treatment form the CM's. My comments are directed toward management and it would be naive to think that eisner wasnt alerted that a fire had taken place and wasnt involved somehow in the decison to offer what they did and why the offer wasnt bad, they could have done more if they cared too. And i believe years ago under different managment they would have and if the work rules are so out of whack to prevent it that is the companies fault for agreein to the work rule's in the first place.
I work for a government agency that has far less than 100,00 emplyoee's. But from the latest report on the disney company its not shown that current managment has any idea what they are doing either. Be it from the upcoming pooh lawsuit or the katzenberg debacle/ovitz firing/internet portal debacle/abc purchse etc there is a long list of reasons to doubt current mangaments ability to run the company. And as a stockholder i have ever right to comment when my share price goes south!!!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Frankly, I'm about certain that WDW could not have done enough to satisfy you or bobo.

Do you lie awake at night and think up those cute titles or do they just roll off your keyboard in an off hand way? Bobo!?!? Really Scoop. It’s beneath you!

And if you’d take the time to actually read my posts within this thread instead of skimming for seemingly easily targeted quotes you would have discovered I was quite satisfied with Disney’s response. What I objected to was YoHo assumption that it was, “…a shining Disney moment”. I disagreed. They did what they had to do. What I expected them to do. Nothing more. (I don’t even know if there is anything more that could have been done.)

Please read the post before you respond. Especially if you’re going to do it with a knee jerk reaction.



ps: I noticed that I really just regurgitated what Mr. Head said way back on page one or two. Why not the huge reaction then? Or was it the way I shove a noun next to a verb that upsets you so?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Baron, WDW's response that day was brilliant from both the numerous guests and CMs I've talked to about that day.

Well, maybe you should talk to some guests as well! Like the one family in our party that didn’t know EPCOT was closed (AND SHE”S STAYING AT OLD KEY WEST!!!) until she was already in that rather unruly line of cars, waiting to… ahhh… be turned away!!!

You know how I found out about it? In Old Key West, right next to Olivia’s, by the phones, waiting for my lunch date with Mr. Show, ON THESE BOARDS!!! I’m in my room all morning long, and not a word! It happened at three in the morning. The decision was made not to open well before nine o’clock. But here it is at 11:30; me staying on the grounds and I have to find out from the Rumors Board!! WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!!!!!

But the next day they were very, very efficient in telling us it was opened again (come back and spend). The entire WDW got a message on their phones telling them (us) as much. You’d think, just for a moment, that they would have placed a greater emphasis on the cancellation rather than the re-opening. But, that’s just my un-Ei$nerish opinion!!

My mother and father were staying at the Beach Club Villas, you know the one where the power was out, and she never got a call either. Never so much as an I'm sorry, for the clocks going out!!

Shining!?!? Fair, acceptable, what they had to do. But not "shining"!!!

now of course, if you also threaten to one day eat my liver with a spoon, well, I shall fear you too...

Awe heck!! If that were all it’d take I would have threatened you a long, long time ago!!