DDP 2008 Tipping

[just another guy]

If I had a server say that to me I would immediately have called over the manager. That was totally inappropriate and unprofessional. Does the disney server not understand they work in the SERVICE industry?I

Its not the words you say, its how you say it. Some times people step out of line, and need to be put back into place. He has a LOT of stuff like that. He's an angel to all polite guests. If you are rude to him, he simply reminds you its a two way street.

This is the attitude that most rant against on this board. These servers don't care about anything other than the mandatory 18%. I

Whatever! He has 20+ years, gets Christmas Cards from families that stop in twice a year to see him, etc, ETC. He's a model employee.

His little "confrontation" is just like half the threads there. There are always two ways to see everything. Neither of us were there, and therefore can't truly judge what happened. Knowing him for years, I'm 100% sure it happened, but because he has a way with words, and the way he talks, he easily gets away with it.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Its not the words you say, its how you say it. Some times people step out of line, and need to be put back into place. He has a LOT of stuff like that. He's an angel to all polite guests. If you are rude to him, he simply reminds you its a two way street.





Whatever! He has 20+ years, gets Christmas Cards from families that stop in twice a year to see him, etc, ETC. He's a model employee.

His little "confrontation" is just like half the threads there. There are always two ways to see everything. Neither of us were there, and therefore can't truly judge what happened. Knowing him for years, I'm 100% sure it happened, but because he has a way with words, and the way he talks, he easily gets away with it.

I'm sure your friend is a perfect server......for "Dick's Last Resort"!

 

[peezee]

Just because I work at a buffet, does not mean I don't deserve a good tip (18%).

For what?

Busboy's certainly don't get 18%..

 

[mom2my3kids]

Its not the words you say, its how you say it. Some times people step out of line, and need to be put back into place. He has a LOT of stuff like that. He's an angel to all polite guests. If you are rude to him, he simply reminds you its a two way street.





Whatever! He has 20+ years, gets Christmas Cards from families that stop in twice a year to see him, etc, ETC. He's a model employee.

His little "confrontation" is just like half the threads there. There are always two ways to see everything. Neither of us were there, and therefore can't truly judge what happened. Knowing him for years, I'm 100% sure it happened, but because he has a way with words, and the way he talks, he easily gets away with it.

Sometimes there are rude guest that just have to be put in there place with a little snide remark. Just like when the whole place is packed and a group comes in and seriously says " I need this ASAP I have a flight". I just politely say well I will put in in ASAP but we are swamped so it may take a while.

 

[mom2my3kids]

For what?

Busboy's certainly don't get 18%..

She is a server not a bus boy..

 

[Tigger1]

In my years as a server, My tables were nearly clean of dishes by the time the busboy came. Many times I would reset my own tables when the busboy was busy. We had a Sunday Buffet once per month. We were busy from start to finish. The start was several hours before opening to set up the buffet, ect. Finish was after everything was tore down. Tips per check % were lower than regular nights and we worked hard for them. On the other hand we were also given larger stations (more tables) during brunch. So I still made a nice hourly average in the end. At Disney I doubt the servers go threw the setting up that we did but those characters could be hard to work around. I would tip more at a Disney Buffet with charactors. You get so much attention from the Charactors. I would hope that the Charactors do get part of the tips.

As for tipping, if Disney ever set a % I had to tip, I would stop dining at those locations. I never saw much discussion on these boards about tipping until the DDP no longer included the tip. I am sure the servers hate to see this go as it was a guaranteed wage. Back to reality of earning tips. I do not think any good server has a thing to worry about. They will still make a very good average hourly salary (based on tips and $2 something per hour). I bet its one of the top salarys available at Disney for employees without college degrees. I bet many servers at Disney make more than many of us with college degrees.


Tigger

 

[fey_spirit]

As to the first paragraph - I keep seeing this argument pop up but it doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny. The fact is that if we paid servers a flat fee they would do their job well just like every other non tipping job out there... they do their job well or they get replaced.

If it required the hope of a good tip to get folks to perform well at work, the only industry in which people would work hard would be waiting tables, bell positions and perhaps hairdresser...

Since that's not the case I find it difficult to believe that we need to dangle the promise of tips in front of human beings to get them to do their jobs.


As to the second paragraph - if a server spoke to me that way I would speak to the manager and demand a new server, and explain why.

Paying servers a flat fee, only takes away from their service. Bad servers would continue to be bad servers. The rest of the servers, while the guest never see it, are often running around in the back area, working their hardest, trying to get the drinks out ASAP, etc, etc, ETC. They do all this hard, fast, labor intensive work all with the hopes of a better tip. Pay servers a flat fee, and they sure won't be running around the back areas any more.

The server shouldn't have to treat guest special because IN THEIR MIND they don't have the perfect table. Serves don't get to pick what tables they wait on. I know a disney server who last week as he was seating one of this own tables, the mother said in a rude manner, "You better not try seating us at a bad table!" The server fired back, "We are completely booked tonight, if you don't want this table, there are tons of others in the lobby that would be more than willing to take it for you." That put her in her place.

 

[fey_spirit]

It's not a two way street... he is being paid to serve me and put up with my attitude - it's his job. Now, that doesn't mean that I am rude to my wait staff - nor that I approve of anyone else doing so. But this isn't an egalitarian relationship - the waiter in question gets paid to serve guests to the restaurant with a good attitude no matter what.

Just because he's an over all good employee does not mean that he never makes mistakes. Nor does it make it ok for him to treat the occasional customer in this way.

Its not the words you say, its how you say it. Some times people step out of line, and need to be put back into place. He has a LOT of stuff like that. He's an angel to all polite guests. If you are rude to him, he simply reminds you its a two way street.





Whatever! He has 20+ years, gets Christmas Cards from families that stop in twice a year to see him, etc, ETC. He's a model employee.

His little "confrontation" is just like half the threads there. There are always two ways to see everything. Neither of us were there, and therefore can't truly judge what happened. Knowing him for years, I'm 100% sure it happened, but because he has a way with words, and the way he talks, he easily gets away with it.

 

[udsweetpea]

For what?

Busboy's certainly don't get 18%..

No, they don't get 18%, but the busboys at Park Fare do get a large portion of my tips for the night... . Did you not read what else I said I have to do during my shift to earn my 18%? And I also forgot to add that Disney does not provide health insurance to part-time cast members (or that might offer some measly insurance now), so the auto 18% tip does help a lot.

 

[pilferk]

As to the first paragraph - I keep seeing this argument pop up but it doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny. The fact is that if we paid servers a flat fee they would do their job well just like every other non tipping job out there... they do their job well or they get replaced.

If it required the hope of a good tip to get folks to perform well at work, the only industry in which people would work hard would be waiting tables, bell positions and perhaps hairdresser...

Since that's not the case I find it difficult to believe that we need to dangle the promise of tips in front of human beings to get them to do their jobs.


As to the second paragraph - if a server spoke to me that way I would speak to the manager and demand a new server, and explain why.

I see both sides to this argument, and have seen the system work both ways (Stateside and in Europe).

Here's the alternate viewpoint to your assertion, above:

In other industries, you have a supervisor (usually) who sees, and to some extent reviews, your work, your productivity, etc.

When waiting tables, the best "barometer" isn't the supervisor, because they are not, really, the person seeing the final product of your work...the customer is. When waiting tables (or bell hopping, valeting, etc), there is a better than average chance the customer will NOT be frequenting your establishment again in the near future, and will not have direct interaction with the supervisor overseeing their service person.

Therefore, the "onus" of rewarding good job performance gets passed to those recieving the service. The customer, essentially, is acting as contract employer. The facility is paying the server to perform ancillary duties, the CUSTOMER is the one paying for service with their "tip". Providing the "sliding scale" allows you to tip an amount appropriate to service, rather than paying an "all or nothing" flat fee. What you want to base that sliding scale on is fine, so long as it pays the bills for the server. It seems the % of check "rule of thumb" works best as that sliding scale.

Whether you agree with that POV or not is entirely up to you. But that's the established system here in the good ole' USA. It works quite well the OTHER way, in European countries, but you pay more for your food, too....which is essentially the "flat fee" for service added on.

 

[LexPlayer]

As a server at a Disney buffet, I thought I'd chime in. Please don't think that just because we work at a buffet, we don't work hard and don't deserve a decent tip. There's a lot of work you don't see behind the scenes, and you can't even imagine the pain in my arms I still have after not working there for a few months. Imagine being stuck behind a character who you can't get around, and a family of ten wants to take individual and family pictures. Now add a stack of 20 plates (all not stacked right because hardly anyone can stack them right for you). Just because I work at a buffet, does not mean I don't deserve a good tip (18%).

If you really want to persuade the people on these Boards, perhaps you could answer the following. For the average buffet server, how many days/hours per week do they work, how many tables per shift, total earnings per pay period, and how this compares to "table service" servers.

You have certainly cited some issues with respect to your job duties, but I am sure everyone is curious as to whether the pay is commensurate with that level of work.

I have been pleased with the level of service I have received at both table service restaurants and buffets, but there is a belief in our society that buffet servers should not receive as high a tip percentage as table service servers. Do you think that they should be equal?

 

[skater]

So true! Don't forget the dreaded hand shake. Once you get that, you KNOW you are not getting anything over 10%.





In a land of make believe, yes, thats the perfect idea. At disney...

NOT A CHANCE!!!

A large number of families save up years for their trip. If disney jacked the prices up 18%, the sticker shock would scare lots of people away. All disney cares about is profit, so that wouldn't work.

Paying servers a flat fee, only takes away from their service. Bad servers would continue to be bad servers. The rest of the servers, while the guest never see it, are often running around in the back area, working their hardest, trying to get the drinks out ASAP, etc, etc, ETC. They do all this hard, fast, labor intensive work all with the hopes of a better tip. Pay servers a flat fee, and they sure won't be running around the back areas any more.




You are half right. Yes the server should ask the guest how things are going/tasting/etc.

As far as being friend with the host, you are WAY off in regard to disney. Yes that works fine at a mom and pops diner, or a local chain restaurant. The host will seat the attractive high schools in a college aged guy servers stations. A mexican family will be sat in a servers station who speak spanish, etc. At disney, that doesn't work. All disney cares about is MAXIMIZING profits! The guests are sat as quick as possible at the first available table.

The server shouldn't have to treat guest special because IN THEIR MIND they don't have the perfect table. Serves don't get to pick what tables they wait on. I know a disney server who last week as he was seating one of this own tables, the mother said in a rude manner, "You better not try seating us at a bad table!" The server fired back, "We are completely booked tonight, if you don't want this table, there are tons of others in the lobby that would be more than willing to take it for you." That put her in her place.

I agreed with a lot of your post until I got to "that put her in her place." What is her place? I have had many jobs serving the public and it is a matter of skill and politeness to handle problem customers without "putting them in their place."

 

[skater]

Often at buffets, I feel that 18% is too much for the amount of "serving" we've received, however there have been some exceptions. Last Sept. we had an exceptional server at the AK character breakfast. He went out of his way (although he was very busy) to take care of our needs, talk with us and joke with the kids. But most of the time buffet servers take our drink orders, clear our plates (hopefully quickly) and bring refills (again, hopefully quickly). It just doesn't feel the same as someone who takes individual food orders, carries the trays out, acccomodates extra requests, etc. I guess it is an individual decision for me.

 

[Tricia1972]

Often at buffets, I feel that 18% is too much for the amount of "serving" we've received, however there have been some exceptions. Last Sept. we had an exceptional server at the AK character breakfast. He went out of his way (although he was very busy) to take care of our needs, talk with us and joke with the kids. But most of the time buffet servers take our drink orders, clear our plates (hopefully quickly) and bring refills (again, hopefully quickly). It just doesn't feel the same as someone who takes individual food orders, carries the trays out, acccomodates extra requests, etc. I guess it is an individual decision for me.

I agree with this post completely! When dining, even at Disney, I tend to receive exceptional service at non-buffet restaurants. I receive perfectly adequate service at buffets, but I cannot think of one server at the buffets we went to who did anything more than clear our plates and give us an occasional refill. At non-buffet eateries the server will talk to us about our day, joke with us, make menu suggestions, etc.

We also stack our plates for our server, putting any uneaten food on the top plate and stacking empties below, after reading the former CM's post (udsweetpea) I hope we're doing it 'right' for the server. We really do it just to make it easier for them.

 

[udsweetpea]

If you really want to persuade the people on these Boards, perhaps you could answer the following. For the average buffet server, how many days/hours per week do they work, how many tables per shift, total earnings per pay period, and how this compares to "table service" servers.

You have certainly cited some issues with respect to your job duties, but I am sure everyone is curious as to whether the pay is commensurate with that level of work.

I have been pleased with the level of service I have received at both table service restaurants and buffets, but there is a belief in our society that buffet servers should not receive as high a tip percentage as table service servers. Do you think that they should be equal?

I can only speak of my time at Park Fare since its the only Disney buffet I've work at. A typical evening includes being quadruple sat at my 4 six-tops. So the night starts off with getting 24 drinks at one time, including rounds of water and bar drinks and bringing butter to the table. This also includes taking cake orders to the bakery since there's usually one birthday in each round of seatings. And there's usually one allergy in each seating, so I have to hunt down the chef so he can go over to the table. I'm usually in the back part of the restaurant, so when characters come back there when I'm back there, I can't get out for about 10 minutes while holding about 20 plates, all stacked funny. Birthdays are at a specific time (4 or 5 times in a shift) and everyone celebrates their birthday at the same time. So, I have to drop everything I'm doing to grab the cake or cupcake and run out on the floor to help celebrate. I cringe when anyone orders coffee or hot tea because Disney has now implemented the 2-step coffee service. So, I often get screamed at by a guest for placing an empty cup on the table and coming back with the pot. The DDP is so weird that it takes a long time to settle the payment. Those are just some things that happen in my typical night. That being said, I love my shifts at Park Fare!

I think we deserve the same rate of pay than a regular table-service server because we do all the same things they do except take an order and have a larger amount of people to serve at one time. We don't bring the food, but we make so many stops at the table, we might as well have brought their food too. I have been a table-service server at Disney as well.

To answer your other question, full-time buffet servers work about 30-40 hours a week. The shift starts at 3:30, and we usually leave at 10. Typical sections have 5 tables. I'm usually in a section of 4-5 six-tops. Park Fare is the only restaurant left in Disney with bussers.

I hope I answered your questions sufficiently.

 

[fey_spirit]

To be clear, my assertions as to the below was not about whether we should tip or not. I actually am still batting my thoughts on this issue around in my own head. But to believe that taking a tip away and going to a normal hourly wage like the majority of the rest of the country would leave us with mostly lazy, bad servers seems slightly silly to me. Managers may not have the birds eye view of the final product in the case of servers in a restaurant, however if they receive enough complaints about a server - it can, and should still mean the end of that servers job.

So, just as in any other non tipped service position, (Where often the manager doesn't have any more direct observation then does the restaurant manager) if you don't do your job well, people complain and you get fired... if that's enough incentive for these other non tipped service position employees to do their jobs well - I fail to see why if we went to a flat rate the same incentive wouldn't keep servers in line in the same manner.

I see both sides to this argument, and have seen the system work both ways (Stateside and in Europe).

Here's the alternate viewpoint to your assertion, above:

In other industries, you have a supervisor (usually) who sees, and to some extent reviews, your work, your productivity, etc.

When waiting tables, the best "barometer" isn't the supervisor, because they are not, really, the person seeing the final product of your work...the customer is. When waiting tables (or bell hopping, valeting, etc), there is a better than average chance the customer will NOT be frequenting your establishment again in the near future, and will not have direct interaction with the supervisor overseeing their service person.

Therefore, the "onus" of rewarding good job performance gets passed to those recieving the service. The customer, essentially, is acting as contract employer. The facility is paying the server to perform ancillary duties, the CUSTOMER is the one paying for service with their "tip". Providing the "sliding scale" allows you to tip an amount appropriate to service, rather than paying an "all or nothing" flat fee. What you want to base that sliding scale on is fine, so long as it pays the bills for the server. It seems the % of check "rule of thumb" works best as that sliding scale.

Whether you agree with that POV or not is entirely up to you. But that's the established system here in the good ole' USA. It works quite well the OTHER way, in European countries, but you pay more for your food, too....which is essentially the "flat fee" for service added on.

 

[LexPlayer]

To answer your other question, full-time buffet servers work about 30-40 hours a week. The shift starts at 3:30, and we usually leave at 10. Typical sections have 5 tables. I'm usually in a section of 4-5 six-tops. Park Fare is the only restaurant left in Disney with bussers.

I hope I answered your questions sufficiently.

Your post was very informative and I thank you. It is good to have the opinion and insight of a "real" Disney server. Too often people on these Boards like to speak "on behalf" of the servers, and that it certainly not as insightful.

I appreciate your candor on the wages issue. Many people like to argue that servers earn "less than minimum wage"- which is clearly not true. I am quite confident that many people would be envious of that wage, particularly when there are no apparent college requirements and/or school loans to repay (I'm sure many servers have college loans, but it is not a job requirement to have a degree).

Of course, the only relevant issue is the gratuity. I doubt there is anyone who believes that buffet servers are NOT entitled to a tip, but it is a matter of degree. Let's say for a family of four with 2 adults and 2 kids, the cost is $19 x 2 + $11 x 2 = $60. A 15% gratuity is $9.00, 18% is $10.80 and 20% is $12.00. If the typical server has 5 tables and each table dines for 60-90 minutes, the resultant wage is anywhere from $30 to $60 per hour based on full occupancy. Not bad.

Obviously, a gratuity is a personal issue and many factors are considered, per each individual. I know that a buffet server works hard, just like a table service server, but at a buffet, I, the consumer, am also working hard, as is the rest of the family. We just can't sit back and relax after walking the parks. Everyone is constantly getting up, leaving and coming back. The patrons are assisting in the food service and this should not be discounted. We are talking about "service" and there is less "service" at a buffet. So, to tip the same, would actually be tipping the buffet server "more" for less "service."

I am just offering a different point of view as it seems that you are disappointed if your tip is less than 18%.

 

[TLSnell1981]

To be clear, my assertions as to the below was not about whether we should tip or not. I actually am still batting my thoughts on this issue around in my own head. But to believe that taking a tip away and going to a normal hourly wage like the majority of the rest of the country would leave us with mostly lazy, bad servers seems slightly silly to me. Managers may not have the birds eye view of the final product in the case of servers in a restaurant, however if they receive enough complaints about a server - it can, and should still mean the end of that servers job.

So, just as in any other non tipped service position, (Where often the manager doesn't have any more direct observation then does the restaurant manager) if you don't do your job well, people complain and you get fired... if that's enough incentive for these other non tipped service position employees to do their jobs well - I fail to see why if we went to a flat rate the same incentive wouldn't keep servers in line in the same manner.

I think most waitstaff don't want to go to a flat wage because they would make a lot less money. European waitstaff may make a guanteed wage, but it's nowhere near what they can make in the states.

As for a PP stating they need the tips because they are only part-time and Disney doesn't provide insurance....that's the way most companies work in this country. Now, Starbucks offers insurance for part-time employees, but they only make around $7 an hour.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I agree with this post completely! When dining, even at Disney, I tend to receive exceptional service at non-buffet restaurants. I receive perfectly adequate service at buffets, but I cannot think of one server at the buffets we went to who did anything more than clear our plates and give us an occasional refill. At non-buffet eateries the server will talk to us about our day, joke with us, make menu suggestions, etc.

We also stack our plates for our server, putting any uneaten food on the top plate and stacking empties below, after reading the former CM's post (udsweetpea) I hope we're doing it 'right' for the server. We really do it just to make it easier for them.

YUCK! I wouldn't want to sit next to someone that scraped their plates and left them for me to look at "pig slop" while I was trying to dine. I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but GROSS! Think of the other guests.

 

[udsweetpea]

I am just offering a different point of view as it seems that you are disappointed if your tip is less than 18%.

Thanks for giving me your point of view! I'm not really disappointed with a tip less than 18% because I do know people come from different beliefs of how much a buffet server should make. When I met my boyfriend, he believed it was okay to tip $1/person at a buffet. But I truly feel like Disney buffet servers are very different than those at Ponderosa and the like.

You're right, we make a lot of money, and we're some of the top paid servers in Disney at Park Fare. I have only received a handful of tips less than 15% at Park Fare. That's including those guests without DDP. I used to work at All Star Cafe at the Wide World of Sports and often worked 14 hour days and went home with $50, so I feel the other side too.