DAS Pass - Encopresis

[ClaraOswald]

I agree, to a point. Anecdotal evidence isn't great but it can sometimes give you information that is interesting and some value.

lentesta, touringplans, posted on a different fan forum. Some his data is talking to CM. Some came from physically counting people using DAS over an hour or so.

So Len Testa was counting people using DAS?? When and why?

 

[Lewisc]

So Len Testa was counting people using DAS?? When and why?

Post 13 in this thread was a summary. I'll try to find his post and offer a link. I don't think the site is banned.

Discussions with CMs and keeping count, for an hour or so, one attraction is interesting but not definitive.

 

[SueM in MN]

Post 13 in this thread was a summary. I'll try to find his post and offer a link. I don't think the site is banned.

Discussions with CMs and keeping count, for an hour or so, one attraction is interesting but not definitive.

post #13 didn't really say anything. Here it is

3% of guests were using the old GAC. The 3% accounted for 30% of the capacity of a then newish ride at DL (maybe TSM).

Anecdotal evidence suggests, at least part of the day, 40% of WDW haunted mansion capacity is for DAS holders.

This was my reply to it in post #17
The old Guest Assistance Card (GAC) data can't be used to extrapolate to guests using DAS at WDW. The programs are very different and DL has a lot more day visitors - many with Annual Passes who go several times per week. Unless someone is observing right at the scan in point all day and can see that guests are scanning in using DAS, there is no way to tell. Anecdotal evidence is not reliable Evidence.

DAS has one accommodation - ability to wait outside of the regular line. The wait is based on the current posted wait in the Standby line; after waiting, the guest(s) using DAS return to the Lightning Lane to enter the attraction. If I guest wants to go on the same attraction more than once, they need to wait a second time.

GAC had a number of different accommodations meant to address different disabilities. These were added as stamps to the cardboard GAC card. Stamps included things like first row seating, avoiding stairs, using an alternate entry (which could be the Fastpass line or the exit if the regular line wasn't accessible). There was also a stamp for immediate access - a green arrow. It was intended for guests on Make a Wish trips, but a lot of people had that stamp, especially people with autism, who said they could not wait in line.

The attraction in question was Radiator Springs Racers at Disneyland and mostly involved the green arrow stamp. When it opened, it was noted that the Fastpass line was very long, much longer than expected. As a result, they were running out of Fastpasses much earlier in the day than expected. As CMs watched the line, they noticed large numbers of guests who were using the green arrow GAC, riding and getting right back into line to ride again multiple times.
That was NOT against the rules for the card they had, but was not the intended/expected use for it. So, a very small number of guests were riding over and over and using most of the ride capacity.

DAS addressed those issues in several ways:
- moved MAKE A WISH accommodation from Guest Relations in the parks to the wish granting organizations
- eliminated all the different accommodation stamps and simplified to one accommodation- waiting outside of the line a time roughly equal to the current wait in the Standby line.
- moved from a cardboard card to a digital version attached to the guests' Disney profile.

The waiting was what the DAS lawsuit was about. A group of guests whose children were autistic argued that DAS violated the ADA because they were not capable of waiting at all, inside or outside of the line and needed immediate access to all attractions. Disney won the lawsuit.

 

[ClaraOswald]

Thanks for that info. We never used the old system so I never really read up on it at all. I quite like the current DAS system, for the most part. I think it's the most fair way to do things while still giving people like my son accommodations that work. The only complaint I have is that for some rides, since it's often the same line as LL, the in-queue wait can actually be quite long which then defeats the purpose of DAS.

Oh...and I think it's super gross of some blogger or whatever to stand outside of a queue and keep track of people with disabilities. Sounds like a creep.

 

[MinnieMSue]

Thanks for that info. We never used the old system so I never really read up on it at all. I quite like the current DAS system, for the most part. I think it's the most fair way to do things while still giving people like my son accommodations that work. The only complaint I have is that for some rides, since it's often the same line as LL, the in-queue wait can actually be quite long which then defeats the purpose of DAS.

Oh...and I think it's super gross of some blogger or whatever to stand outside of a queue and keep track of people with disabilities. Sounds like a creep.

Just fyi Len and his employees are all about numbers and stats. If he even did this study, he was not looking at the actual people at all, just watching the scanners and counting. To do this you don’t have time to look at individual people as you are busy tallying numbers. They constantly have people in the parks waiting in lines and counting and timing ride launches etc. They acquire an insane amount of statistics on the parks. They don’t have time or care at all about looking at what the individual people look like.

 

[DisneyOma]

Just fyi Len and his employees are all about numbers and stats. If he even did this study, he was not looking at the actual people at all, just watching the scanners and counting. To do this you don’t have time to look at individual people as you are busy tallying numbers. They constantly have people in the parks waiting in lines and counting and timing ride launches etc. They acquire an insane amount of statistics on the parks. They don’t have time or care at all about looking at what the individual people look like.

If they are not looking at the people, how do they know it's DAS and not LL or something else?

 

[Mamabun]

If they are not looking at the people, how do they know it's DAS and not LL or something else?

My guess is that they are watching the scan light - DAS scans in blue and genie+, recovery pass, rider swap, etc scan in green. Watching the people would be very error-prone as many disabilities aren’t visible to the casual observer.

 

[DisneyOma]

My guess is that they are watching the scan light - DAS scans in blue and genie+, recovery pass, rider swap, etc scan in green. Watching the people would be very error-prone as many disabilities aren’t visible to the casual observer.

But early LL, late LL, etc, also scan in blue. The only way to tell if it is DAS is to see the CM's screen, where the photo of the DAS holder shows. I agree with the people who think it is creepy. If Touring Plans is a paid app, it is also illegal for them to be conducting that kind of survey on property, isn't it?

 

[ClaraOswald]

My guess is that they are watching the scan light - DAS scans in blue and genie+, recovery pass, rider swap, etc scan in green. Watching the people would be very error-prone as many disabilities aren’t visible to the casual observer.

DAS scans blue initially but then changes to green.

 

[MinnieMSue]

But early LL, late LL, etc, also scan in blue. The only way to tell if it is DAS is to see the CM's screen, where the photo of the DAS holder shows. I agree with the people who think it is creepy. If Touring Plans is a paid app, it is also illegal for them to be conducting that kind of survey on property, isn't it?

That’s why i am skeptical they even did this study. There is no way it could be accurate. No one can stand where they see the screens for more than a few minutes. Heck I have never seen the screens when I am scanning in. If you are doing stats you cannot be looking at the people. You would have to be counting all scans. You can’t even tell who is with the das person vs who is lightning lane since they all scan green. I am very skeptical that this study was even done. But if they did count blue scans vs green ones you definitely are watching the scanner color and not the people. There is pretty much always more than one scanner too. I really don’t see how anyone could really do this. And if they did it would be highly inaccurate. I think people are getting upset about something that probably isn’t even real.

 

[SueM in MN]

My guess is that they are watching the scan light - DAS scans in blue and genie+, recovery pass, rider swap, etc scan in green. Watching the people would be very error-prone as many disabilities aren’t visible to the casual observer.

But early LL, late LL, etc, also scan in blue. The only way to tell if it is DAS is to see the CM's screen, where the photo of the DAS holder shows. I agree with the people who think it is creepy. If Touring Plans is a paid app, it is also illegal for them to be conducting that kind of survey on property, isn't it?

Exactly.
Many situations scan in blue. The ones you mentioned, but also things like a scan error, scanning into the wrong attraction, etc.
It's not specific to DAS; it's just a signal to the CM to look at the screen to view the alert and resolve it. The only way to tell it alerted for DAS is to either hear the guests talking about using DAS OR seeing the CM screen. We've NEVER heard a CM at the scanner say anything about DAS and the CM screen is only visible from the CM side. I don't even see it as the person helping our DAS holder to scan in.

 

[ClaraOswald]

That’s why i am skeptical they even did this study. There is no way it could be accurate. No one can stand where they see the screens for more than a few minutes. Heck I have never seen the screens when I am scanning in. If you are doing stats you cannot be looking at the people. You would have to be counting all scans. You can’t even tell who is with the das person vs who is lightning lane since they all scan green. I am very skeptical that this study was even done. But if they did count blue scans vs green ones you definitely are watching the scanner color and not the people. There is pretty much always more than one scanner too. I really don’t see how anyone could really do this. And if they did it would be highly inaccurate. I think people are getting upset about something that probably isn’t even real.

It's often so crowded by the scanners too. I can't imagine someone standing there to do this.

 

[Jellybean9]

His team definitely conducted the research. It’s been discussed on several of his recent Disney Dish podcasts.

 

[DisneyOma]

His team definitely conducted the research. It’s been discussed on several of his recent Disney Dish podcasts.

Just because he is discussing it doesn't mean it is accurate data, or even valid data. It's all to promote his services, and the fact that he has a "team"? If he's selling a service based on WDW, isn't that against Disney policy?

 

[SueM in MN]

His team definitely conducted the research. It’s been discussed on several of his recent Disney Dish podcasts.

I believe his team did it and collected data. I just don't think they could collect accurate or complete data that can be used to make conclusions.

 

[Jellybean9]

I believe his team did it and collected data. I just don't think they could collect accurate or complete data that can be used to make conclusions.

His podcast on 12/4 at around the 17 min mark explains what was done.

 

[MinnieMSue]

I listened tonight. They said 1500 people entered lightning lane and 1500 people entered standby in an hour at haunted mansion. They just counted people paying no attention to how they scanned apparently. They said that somehow they know that 300 slots per hour are allocated for genie plus. So the rest must be mostly DAS. They said no tour groups went in. Idk I just don’t see that many DAS people tapping in when we are there. I would think they would not have done this after a ride outage which would add more people to lightning lane. They should know that would skew data. I wonder if the number of genie plus slots per hour are correct. That sure is an awful lot of das families if their assumptions are correct.

 

[Jellybean9]

I listened tonight. They said 1500 people entered lightning lane and 1500 people entered standby in an hour at haunted mansion. They just counted people paying no attention to how they scanned apparently. They said that somehow they know that 300 slots per hour are allocated for genie plus. So the rest must be mostly DAS. They said no tour groups went in. Idk I just don’t see that many DAS people tapping in when we are there. I would think they would not have done this after a ride outage which would add more people to lightning lane. They should know that would skew data. I wonder if the number of genie plus slots per hour are correct. That sure is an awful lot of das families if their assumptions are correct.

I would assume most of us are familiar with Len Testa and therefore understand he is by no means dumb. His company does an insane amount of data gathering and he also has a vast network of connections. This would lead me to believe his understanding of LL distribution in an hour is probably accurate.

https://www.wired.com/2012/11/len-testa-math-vacation/

 

[MinnieMSue]

I would assume most of us are familiar with Len Testa and therefore understand he is by no means dumb. His company does an insane amount of data gathering and he also has a vast network of connections. This would lead me to believe his understanding of LL distribution in an hour is probably accurate.

https://www.wired.com/2012/11/len-testa-math-vacation/

I agree with you and that he has acquired a mind numbing amount of statistics. To think that there are 1200 people with disability’s qualifying for DAS and their families per hour on just one ride is insane. Multiply that out in a park and wow! I still rarely notice people using it when I am waiting to tap in, tho to be honest I am not paying attention to that.

 

[starlite_]

I agree with you and that he has acquired a mind numbing amount of statistics. To think that there are 1200 people with disability’s qualifying for DAS and their families per hour on just one ride is insane. Multiply that out in a park and wow! I still rarely notice people using it when I am waiting to tap in, tho to be honest I am not paying attention to that.

Honestly, he must be at least a bit close to the truth. Otherwise Disney wouldn't be getting more strict on what issues qualify for DAS. I would be willing to bet it's at least around 50-50.