DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[jennab]

In her case, there is almost certainly a flag for “no other adults” or “own children only”— as of today, only centralized accommodation team can add or remove people to DAS parties. It will notify the other cast members on that team that the DAS user successfully argued other accommodations wouldn’t work because they were alone (or with small children), so other adults can’t be added… this kind of limitation for adults will DRASTICALLY disincentivize abuse and misuse… unless it becomes common enough that each misuse/abuser individually fakes requests.

I mean it makes sense. Traveling with a child you can’t just leave them to wait for you, but an adult could. I do think it sucks that families may have to separate though.

 

[2tinkerbell]

To have someone on their DAS, you have to have their ticket scanned to your account. You qualify for the DAS when you are traveling alone with a minor. You contact the Assistance Team to change who is traveling with you now and you have your current situation (who is traveling with you now) evaluated. If the Return to Queue is now the accommodation, you won’t get the DAS accommodation. No flagging your account.

To me, this will cut down on the abuse and overuse.

 

[Kari2684]

Just giving my experience today. I’ve read a lot on this board, FB, and Reddit.
I am an out of state AP who goes about once a month. My current DAS expires May 23rd and I return May 23rd. I did the video chat today as I will be returning May 23rd and wanted to make sure all was set prior to leaving. I typically travel solo. Occasionally, I friends meet up with me.

I was approved for 120 days- again, I have an AP. I am not on the autism spectrum. I explained why I could not wait in the typical queue. I was told this approval was for me only. If anyone joins me, we would need to utilize the rider swap or return to queue option. I don’t know if this is another “level” of accommodations with a sort of partial approval. I really don’t know what this will look like when a friend joins me. I suppose that’s going to be a “we’ll see how this works” moment.

I go later this week and am not planning on having any friends join me. However, while I’m there, I am going to try to get clarification.

 

[Chuckdlc]

Wow, a waiver of all class action rights really puts my earlier post about incorporating a prohibition on sharing on social media (which does NOT appear to have been incorporated!) into perspective.

Has anyone actually SEEN these Ts&Cs? As a litigator, my *guess* is that the validity of the waiver would be on a state by state basis…but you may also be consenting to FL law and jurisdiction (or an even less favorable state) elsewhere. Personally, I am in favor of any step Disney can take to protect itself from clearly frivolous lawsuits by disgruntled customers. I’m not saying all potential lawsuits would be frivolous, but most of the ones I’ve seen threatened on social media are pretty baseless— unfortunately, class actions can make even the most frivolous lawsuits painful to defend.

I've been pondering this for a few minutes also (which isn't enough) but my guess (also a guess) is that it wouldn't hold up. My thinking would be that the law won't support the position that people have to give up a legal right just so that they can request an accommodation.

Certainly a jurisdictional waiver or even the pre-litigation mandatory mediation/arbitration clauses that we see all the time should hold up because they don't actually prevent you from pursuing your legal rights when entering into a contract. The language here literally takes away your right to participate in the suit as opposed to having to participate in a jurisdiction convenient to disney or by having to first attempt to resolve it by way of mediation or arbitration.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I mean it makes sense. Traveling with a child you can’t just leave them to wait for you, but an adult could. I do think it sucks that families may have to separate though.

Is it a downgrade from DAS? Absolutely! As an adult with non-DD limitations (I actually have them but they are manageable and not of the nature that should qualify for DAS) I am happily surprised at the options I’m hearing—for shorter line rides I can stay with my husband and kids, for longer line rides, it looks like I’ll hopefully get to sometimes meet them at the LL merge point if we can’t buy Genie+ for them. There is no point for them to wait around for me on some vehicles (thinking TestTrack), but they will probably want me on the 2 seaters. While it was nicer when our family was always together and could avoid lines entirely, this will free up a lot of DAS (75% in our case for rides we use it for and 100% for the ones I skip) that can go to the people who truly need it.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I've been pondering this for a few minutes also (which isn't enough) but my guess (also a guess) is that it wouldn't hold up. My thinking would be that the law won't support the position that people have to give up a legal right just so that they can request an accommodation.

Certainly a jurisdictional waiver or even the pre-litigation mandatory mediation/arbitration clauses that we see all the time should hold up because they don't actually prevent you from pursuing your legal rights when entering into a contract. The language here literally takes away your right to participate in the suit as opposed to having to participate in a jurisdiction convenient to disney or by having to first attempt to resolve it by way of mediation or arbitration.

We are getting into the weeds here — but you are overlooking a detail (and how good Disney’s litigators are) — they are NOT asking you to waive all rights to sue, they are saying you agree to pursue them on an INDIVIDUAL basis (both an independent contractual agreement AND agreeing that it’s “an individualized discussion regarding my personal circumstances”— which would weigh against a class cert decision. Essentially you can still challenge, but it won’t be a rich target for plaintiffs’ lawyers AND a defeat in one plaintiff’s case won’t require them to change accommodations for anyone else.

 

[Chuckdlc]

We are getting into the weeds here — but you are overlooking a detail (and how good Disney’s litigators are) — they are NOT asking you to waive all rights to sue, they are saying you agree to pursue them on an INDIVIDUAL basis (both an independent contractual agreement AND agreeing that it’s “an individualized discussion regarding my personal circumstances”— which would weigh against a class cert decision. Essentially you can still challenge, but it won’t be a rich target for plaintiffs’ lawyers AND a defeat in one plaintiff’s case won’t require them to change accommodations for anyone else.

Excellent and fair points. This is something I think we could sit down and talk about for at least an hour just sort of working through it.

Two thoughts I do keep coming back to now are, a given plaintiff could argue (and it would be th at plaintiff's burden to make the argument) that they were unaware that others had similar circumstances. Essentially it wasn't a knowing waiver.
The other, perhaps more compelling thought, the Courts have an interest in class action suits because they are (intended to be) more efficient in handling plaintiff's in similar circumstances. So the Court would have some incentive to not have 10,000 individualized plaintiff's cases on the docket as opposed to one class action suit. Said differently, Disney wants you to all have to file individually and in Florida. The Florida courts might be inclined to say "oh the hell with that!" Basically we both know the Courts can come up with the reasoning to support the end result it chooses. lol

Obviously these are just immediate thoughts we're both having and you can make arguments all around this thing but I appreciate the intellectual exercise and greatly respect your knowledge and input.

 

[Evita_W]

Defunctland has a close to 2 hr documentary on why Fastpass+ didn’t work. It was actually just up for a Peabody award.

But it DID work for many people in practice, that being said, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach, there can be a mix of free and paid options that would reduce the abuse.

 

[Evita_W]

The T&Cs are here: https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/profile/guest-services/disability-access-service?returnUrl=/guest-services/disability-access-service/register/

You must agree to the T&Cs before applying for DAS via chat.

The lawsuit and no class action lawsuit stuff is actually bolded on the T&Cs page.

This should be illegal, we need to stop accepting companies pulling stuff like this.

 

[Disneychick75]

Someone a few pages back posted how they were warming up their vocal cords to say “Siri, set a 10 min timer” inferring they would be maximizing their DAS to the fullest extent possible. While you may be an example of a DAS user who rode very few attractions, I think a significant portion of DAS users over the past two years were taking full advantage of the possibilities presented by the access granted.

So if you use Genie or Genie+, do you not notice when it's time to make a new attraction reservation? The poster was doing what Disney allowed.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Consider there is only enough of this prescription drug for 100 people, and 1000 people currently have a prescription. So they say, well these 10 people's symptoms need it beyond a doubt. The other 990, let's see what else might work for them. Once everyone works through the alternate options, maybe only 80-90 end up back on the prescription, and now there is enough for everyone who really needs it and can't make the alternative work.

I mean this just isn't reality though with medication. It's been happening a lot with the ADHD medication shortages this year. There is no hierarchy - prescriptions are filled first come first serve. And the answer to families from medical professionals hasn't been - oh, go try these alternative things that aren't medication. It's been instead a search from pharmacy to pharmacy looking for who has the medication in stock because it's a determined need for the patient.

Families do their best to function in the meantime, some with little success, but I haven't read any one reporting "oh, we found these non-medication alternatives work instead so we don't need the medication anymore"

 

[Dog Is Love]

Just giving my experience today. I’ve read a lot on this board, FB, and Reddit.
I am an out of state AP who goes about once a month. My current DAS expires May 23rd and I return May 23rd. I did the video chat today as I will be returning May 23rd and wanted to make sure all was set prior to leaving. I typically travel solo. Occasionally, I friends meet up with me.

I was approved for 120 days- again, I have an AP. I am not on the autism spectrum. I explained why I could not wait in the typical queue. I was told this approval was for me only. If anyone joins me, we would need to utilize the rider swap or return to queue option. I don’t know if this is another “level” of accommodations with a sort of partial approval. I really don’t know what this will look like when a friend joins me. I suppose that’s going to be a “we’ll see how this works” moment.

I go later this week and am not planning on having any friends join me. However, while I’m there, I am going to try to get clarification.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Please keep us updated when you get clarification.

Did they give you any reason as to why your friend wouldn't also be included with your DAS? Thanks again and hope you have a good trip.

 

[MediumSizedMermaid]

Excellent and fair points. This is something I think we could sit down and talk about for at least an hour just sort of working through it.

Two thoughts I do keep coming back to now are, a given plaintiff could argue (and it would be th at plaintiff's burden to make the argument) that they were unaware that others had similar circumstances. Essentially it wasn't a knowing waiver.
The other, perhaps more compelling thought, the Courts have an interest in class action suits because they are (intended to be) more efficient in handling plaintiff's in similar circumstances. So the Court would have some incentive to not have 10,000 individualized plaintiff's cases on the docket as opposed to one class action suit. Said differently, Disney wants you to all have to file individually and in Florida. The Florida courts might be inclined to say "oh the hell with that!" Basically we both know the Courts can come up with the reasoning to support the end result it chooses. lol

Obviously these are just immediate thoughts we're both having and you can make arguments all around this thing but I appreciate the intellectual exercise and greatly respect your knowledge and input.

The other thing is there are now law firms that have created mechanisms for doing 'class action without class action' to get around mandatory arbitration, which could definitely be adapted for this. Basically they create forms for affected people to fill out and then submit each case individually as the clauses demand, but then the offending company has to deal with all those cases and pay the arbitrator (or in this case it'd be their legal team) to handle every single case, which costs them time and money.

Disney's 'no class-action for you' clause might not be the catch-all they think it is.

 

[StarGirl11]

Wait, what? I thought for Tron you HAD to be in your return window. I got a VQ for Tron (mostly as a dry run) for DS28 but the boarding group was 19 with an estimated return time of 9:30 am. Since there was ZERO possibly that we would be in the parks before 2-3 pm, I cancelled it. Since we wouldn’t be in the parks at 1 pm for the next drop, I just didn’t think it was an option for us to ride. Are you telling me I could have the VQ converted to a DAS even after the window expired for Tron?

Didn’t see anyone else’s response but might have just missed it. Clarification here. If it’s not Tron you can return after the window your boarding group is called. At least as of right now other rides have allowed you on once your BG has been called whether it’s outside the window.

Except for Tron. Tron is the only VQ that enforced the window of return. You can convert the VQ to a DAS but it must be within the window. So you did make the right choice here.

I believe the reason for the different rule with Tron is due to how popular it is to ride at night. So they don’t want the queue to get backed up more then necessary.

 

[BingoJoe]

I am really impressed with the information coming out so far. It really seems like Disney is trying to find other accommodations rather than just giving everyone who wants it a superior free version of genie plus.

The various rider swap and queue re-join options seem more that adequate for most people and will hopefully result in a big reduction in both fake use and over use.

I really think this is going to improve the experience of the average park goer.

 

[Jellybean9]

So if you use Genie or Genie+, do you not notice when it's time to make a new attraction reservation? The poster was doing what Disney allowed.

This was in response to their statement “That is not the experience of the most DAS families… again and again people have posted the struggle…how few rides they can do, leaving the park.”

Of course someone who has paid $100+ for their family of 4 to have Genie+ is going to be aware of when they can book the next G+LL. They paid for it.

 

[lanejudy]

Essentially you can still challenge, but it won’t be a rich target for plaintiffs’ lawyers AND a defeat in one plaintiff’s case won’t require them to change accommodations for anyone else.

If I’m not mistaken, Disney successfully argued to separate plaintiffs in the original GAC suit, and those who had “joined” had to re-file individual suits (that eventually were dropped, or most were).

 

[Becky Mouse]

Does Disney want to make more money? Absolutely. But those if us who have been around here forever can tell you that even when FP was free, complaints about FP line waits getting longer have been floating around since the internet has started teaching people how to work the systems Disney had in place at the time. In 2 years we will be used to the new normal, just like we were after DAS 1.0 replaced GAC.

Disney wants to make more money, because that’s what their shareholders demand. And if they can’t get average park goers to attend, have a good time and tell their friends who then go spend money, they won’t make more money. The alternative is they charge an even higher exhorbitant amount to cater to a smaller population of those who need accommodations, and those already pay more in their day to day lives for therapies, equipment and medical care. They need the average Joe to have a good enough experience to keep coming back and convince their friends to as well to be able to grow their revenue.

And I say this as someone who has medical concerns, children with developmental disabilities, and a sibling who can no longer visit Disney because it is not reasonable to expect them to accommodate his intensive needs. I don’t know if myself or my kids will qualify any longer. If we don’t, we will make the best of the trip and then go elsewhere.

Yes, it probably is money based, but maybe not in the way you suspect. If I were to guess and have a bit of a pessimistic outlook:

My guess would be that Disney knows that, per day, people with APs spend a whole lot less than families who travel once a year or less. When they had the free FastPass+ system, Disney probably had the data to know that people with APs knew how to use it best and maximize it to its full potential, and so people with APs were there more often and got to do more things while they were there--all while paying significantly less per day. Whereas people who rarely went to Disney and were dropping $10,000 on a 5 day vacation might not even know how to use FastPass+, might have thought they had to pay for it, or didn't know that they can get more FastPasses using the app or kiosk.

They probably designed Genie+ with all this in mind. They probably figured APs would be less likely to buy it each time than guests who come every year or less, and so that would stop APs from having such an advantage in lines. Alternatively, some people with APs who are more "well to do" would buy Genie+ each time, and now they're spending more in the parks per day. So, Disney probably saw Genie+ as a win-win to improve the guest experience for people who pay more per day and also make Disney more money and get some APs to spend more money per day.

What happened instead was that DAS use skyrocketed, mostly by APs. We hear that 70-90% of the LLs are filled with people using DAS. And there are so, so many people with APs on here who have said they never got DAS until Genie+ started because they could handle the waits just fine with free FastPass+. Disney must have the data on this for people who have been AP holders for a long time. They must know that the Smith Family traveled to Disney World for 10 years and never needed DAS, but once there was a paid service for LLs, then they got DAS. To Disney, it suggests that many of users might not actually need DAS but are more convenienced by it, even if they have a medical condition (which, let's be honest, most of us have someone in our family diagnosed with something like diabetes or anxiety or IBS, so most of us qualify in the old DAS system). What's more, people who rarely travel to Disney and don't buy Genie+ are now writing in with lots of complaints about how slow the standby line is moving, and Disney knows this is because the LLs are too long, filled with people using DAS. So, they didn't fix the problem they had before. It's actually created new problems, too, because people who are buying Genie+ aren't getting as many LLs as they would if DAS wasn't being abused and overused. The experience of park guests is being negatively impacted by DAS accommodations, and that's pretty much all Disney has to prove in order to win a lawsuit. They need to crack down on DAS abuse and over-use, and that involves denying a lot of people DAS by narrowing the parameters. They are still handling accommodations, though, by offering other accommodations, such as paid scooter rentals, noise canceling headphones for purchase, line return options, and more. But they are no longer granting DAS to every medical condition.

So, yes, we're going to hear about lots of people being denied DAS in the next few weeks and months, and there are going to be a lot of upset people. There will also be lawsuits, but I expect Disney will win those.

 

[Jellybean9]

But it DID work for many people in practice, that being said, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach, there can be a mix of free and paid options that would reduce the abuse.

The only reason Fastpass+ worked for a small minority of users was because it didn’t work for the majority of users.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Because of this, property wide there is to be a removal of CM language involving "move all the way forward in line..." so there isn't any encouragement to crowd each other. Just to focus on moving forward.

If this is true this would be fantastic news. I hate the “fill all available space” nonsense.