A family conundrum. What would you do? Perhaps a vent.

[Skywalker]

I have met the young lady twice. My son came home (well to his sister’s house) for Christmas and within a day of him arriving gf asked if she could join him for a couple of days before Christmas and then she and her friend joined my son and I for drinks and nibbles the last time I was in London. I don’t think that she is a con artist. I think she is insecure and that’s the reason for the swift declaration of love, booking of flights and even the ‘meet the family’ visit before Christmas.
I think that she has had a different upbringing. She seems not to like her parents. Parents seem to live off grid and the whole family embraces a strict raw vegan diet with no oils. She has followed this diet since birth.
She read law and her Masters is in Energy law, but although she chose corporate type modules as her options, she doesn’t want to work for a corporation/big energy firm and in this country she can’t practise law as a solicitor or barrister because she hasn’t done and doesn’t want or intend to do the professional courses.
She is very direct and holds her own in a conversation, but is quite, I don’t know whether abrasive is the correct word, maybe inflexible and staunch in her opinions.
I like her because she is intellectually equal to my son and challenges him. She is interesting and interested in politics, world affairs etc. Oddly she is very anti Welsh (interesting statement to make to a Welsh family), although her English parents live off grid in Wales. She is a bit of a contradiction and I wonder whether she just hasn’t discovered herself yet.
I wonder whether being brought up off grid means that she has no experience of financial matters, budgeting etc., and I can’t imagine how she must feel living in London in debt picking up zero hours contract work.
In hindsight there were some red flags. My son had mentioned that she didn’t want to do any research about Kos in the weeks before they left, look at restaurants or things to do. Her reasoning was that she thought it was wrong to look forward to the holiday as she wants every day of their relationship to be special, but maybe she wanted to back out because she was broke but wasn’t brave enough to tell him. Of course I then compounded that by giving my son the credit card points to use for the hotel booking.
In all honesty, she is one of those people who will probably turn into a very responsible adult in her 30s but needs to do a lot of maturing before then. Or she will drift though life attaching herself to partners. Maybe something in between.
Anyway, I have really appreciated everyone’s input. I haven’t heard from my son since the telephone call, but I will update when I do.

Thanks for more of the picture.

Again doesn't seem like some evil genius to me. Impulsive, a bit immature and lacking some common sense. She wouldn't be the only 25 year old in the world fitting that description lol

 

[LYSE]

"well that is strange but your and adult and that's your adult gf, good luck and hopefully have fun" - click

 

[sheilafri]

Is it that black and white?

No. Of course it isn’t. You don’t have enough information to know whether she is truly bad news or just financially naive or completely irresponsible and irrational. Your son is in the best position to determine that. However, is it worth the risk to him to stay and find out? Would stepping back and letting her figure out her next move be the best way for him to help her? As he asked for your advice, it seems you could point out options that you see as available to him while giving him the room to make his own decisions.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Parents seem to live off grid and the whole family embraces a strict raw vegan diet with no oils. She has followed this diet since birth.

Some posters may have read your initial comment of "she is vegan and only eats raw foods" as perhaps being spoiled but if she was raised on it and as a stricter diet than most people you can easily see why she is like this as she got older.

Living off the grid may or may not have influenced her lack of "the big wide world" in understanding how things work. She booked airfare so there's that at least lol.

Oddly she is very anti Welsh (interesting statement to make to a Welsh family), although her English parents live off grid in Wales.

Could be because that's where her parents live and she doesn't like her parents like you said. A misplaced bias though on the entirety of Welsh people

In all honesty, she is one of those people who will probably turn into a very responsible adult in her 30s but needs to do a lot of maturing before then. Or she will drift though life attaching herself to partners. Maybe something in between.

It's possible. But I think most of it is going to be how much she can figure out how to live for herself by herself if that makes sense. In truth it's quite possible she's trying her best to break away from how she was raised but never got the tools to really do so. If she didn't get much autonomy growing up she may be trying to exert that now but by also including her romantic partners when it really needs to be her learning well who she is away from her parents.

 

[Jangles]

Just to get a better picture, how many significant others has your son had? I ask this because my 23 year old had had none. So if he met someone who said she loved him and wanted him to go on a grand adventure, I’m not sure he would have the experience to know to pump the brakes.

He has had two serious relationships of about two years. The first when he was 16 and another during his final year of Uni and first year of work. When the latter ended by mutual agreement, largely because of distance, he wanted to enjoy single life in London for a while, so he was unprepared when this young lady said the L word. He told me that it was really awkward and that when he didn’t respond as she hoped, she was upset. They are still in a relationship so I presume that his feelings for her have grown. I don’t ask questions, so I only know what he chooses to tell me. He has always said that he wants to work in Latin America for a few years and not settle down until he is in his 30s.

 

[Jangles]

Some posters may have read your initial comment of "she is vegan and only eats raw foods" as perhaps being spoiled but if she was raised on it and as a stricter diet than most people you can easily see why she is like this as she got older.

Living off the grid may or may not have influenced her lack of "the big wide world" in understanding how things work. She booked airfare so there's that at least lol.

Could be because that's where her parents live and she doesn't like her parents like you said. A misplaced bias though on the entirety of Welsh people

It's possible. But I think most of it is going to be how much she can figure out how to live for herself by herself if that makes sense. In truth it's quite possible she's trying her best to break away from how she was raised but never got the tools to really do so. If she didn't get much autonomy growing up she may be trying to exert that now but by also including her romantic partners when it really needs to be her learning well who she is away from her parents.

I didn’t mean the vegan diet to suggest that she was spoiled, but more as an example of her upbringing and ongoing self control. Veganism is one thing, but when you only eat raw fruit and veg and no oils, so no olives or roasted nuts/seeds, and nothing like tofu, that seems to me to demand a huge amount of self control and a belief that your parents’ decision to raise you on a vegan diet from birth was correct.

It takes a certain lack of filter to sit at a table in Wales, surrounded by a Welsh family and friends (speaking in English so that she wouldn’t feel excluded) and announce a dislike of Wales, it’s language and people. It wasn’t so much that she was proud to be English, but more that she was proud not to be Welsh.

I agree with your comment about perhaps not having the tools. Whatever the outcome of the holiday saga, I am quite curious to see where this relationship goes.

 

[Silvermist999]

It seems that your son and you are very close, for him to share as much as he has about his relationship. It seems as if he is telling you the details to vent, but not necessarily to ask for help? Do you ever ask him what he thinks he should do or how he wants to handle the situation? Like before offering him money, does he ask for it? I am trying to do this with my children’s relationships and even if I see red flags, I find that pointing them out doesn’t help them to see it that way, they need to find out for themselves to believe it. My oldest is a few years younger than your son though, and would not be as open to discuss issues that come up with me.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I didn’t mean the vegan diet to suggest that she was spoiled,

I wasn't meaning you were trying to suggest that, just that some posters may have latched onto that thinking she was just being a spoiled person (especially with the other details about her). But that's how she was raised so it makes more sense. I think people in the States are more used to the stereotype of "want to know how someone is a Vegan?? They'll tell you" kind of thinking.

a belief that your parents’ decision to raise you on a vegan diet from birth was correct.

..or just lack of exposure outside of that. That one is going to take her making the choice to try stuff outside of that diet but it's probably a gigantic first step to consider taking on her part. Just about trying something new. You hear about it all the time about adults finally trying out a food item their parents forbade them from eating, but it can take time to get there to trying it. She could still maintain being Vegan without be as strict about it too.

It wasn’t so much that she was proud to be English, but more that she was proud not to be Welsh.

Yeah that's why I got the vibe that it was more about her parents. I've learned over time there def. can be an anti-Welsh sentiment that can be strong over there in the UK but it was just me thinking "okay her parents who she doesn't like live off the grid in Wales and this girl proclaims to not like anything about the Welsh people it's probably just her assigning prejudice to people when her real issue is her parents." Welsh people being easier targets than a laser focus on just her family.

You're right it takes guts to say something like that in from of Welsh people but some people do not know how to read the room for in-person conversations, and there's no shortage of that in the U.S. we just have different topics where that happens here.

 

[persnickity]

I didn’t mean the vegan diet to suggest that she was spoiled, but more as an example of her upbringing and ongoing self control. Veganism is one thing, but when you only eat raw fruit and veg and no oils, so no olives or roasted nuts/seeds, and nothing like tofu, that seems to me to demand a huge amount of self control and a belief that your parents’ decision to raise you on a vegan diet from birth was correct.

It takes a certain lack of filter to sit at a table in Wales, surrounded by a Welsh family and friends (speaking in English so that she wouldn’t feel excluded) and announce a dislike of Wales, it’s language and people. It wasn’t so much that she was proud to be English, but more that she was proud not to be Welsh.

I agree with your comment about perhaps not having the tools. Whatever the outcome of the holiday saga, I am quite curious to see where this relationship goes.

I suppose that one of the reasons that I'm frustrated when people assume a lot more about this young woman than you have stated is that I can easily relate to her. It's great that so many people here had life all figured out at age 25, but I certainly did not. I had just received a Master's degree and was having trouble finding the great job that I'd naively assumed would fall right in my lap. I lived with my boyfriend and wasn't always easy to get along with. I did not know then, but do know now, that I am autistic, and I'm just wired differently than "regular" folks. Not trying to diagnose your son's girlfriend over the internet at all, but... it would explain the odd outbursts, the rigidity, the strict diet.

I can't relate to the lack of vacation planning, but, to be fair, that's probably one of my autistic interests that not every autistic shares. And I think you are likely right that she realized too late that the trip wasn't the best idea, financially.

It's great that both of them have avoided the pitfalls of credit card debt, though - my now-husband and I certainly did not! (I feel the judgments heading my way already....)

 

[Jangles]

I suppose that one of the reasons that I'm frustrated when people assume a lot more about this young woman than you have stated is that I can easily relate to her. It's great that so many people here had life all figured out at age 25, but I certainly did not. I had just received a Master's degree and was having trouble finding the great job that I'd naively assumed would fall right in my lap. I lived with my boyfriend and wasn't always easy to get along with. I did not know then, but do know now, that I am autistic, and I'm just wired differently than "regular" folks. Not trying to diagnose your son's girlfriend over the internet at all, but... it would explain the odd outbursts, the rigidity, the strict diet.

I can't relate to the lack of vacation planning, but, to be fair, that's probably one of my autistic interests that not every autistic shares. And I think you are likely right that she realized too late that the trip wasn't the best idea, financially.

It's great that both of them have avoided the pitfalls of credit card debt, though - my now-husband and I certainly did not! (I feel the judgments heading my way already....)

It’s going to sound irrational and make me sound very old, but when people more or less stopped using cash and debit/credit cards became king, I used to worry that whole generations of children would grow up with no real understanding of money. As a child I had sixpence to spend, I spent it and my purse was empty. That’s easy for a child to understand and learn from. With cards you just don’t have that. I know, I’m a dinosaur.
I don’t know whether the gf has an overdraft or credit card debt, only that my son doesn’t.

 

[Jangles]

It seems that your son and you are very close, for him to share as much as he has about his relationship. It seems as if he is telling you the details to vent, but not necessarily to ask for help? Do you ever ask him what he thinks he should do or how he wants to handle the situation? Like before offering him money, does he ask for it? I am trying to do this with my children’s relationships and even if I see red flags, I find that pointing them out doesn’t help them to see it that way, they need to find out for themselves to believe it. My oldest is a few years younger than your son though, and would not be as open to discuss issues that come up with me.

We are close. Although we live quite far away (in U.K. terms), my daughter and I speak most days and my son messages or calls irregularly, but every couple of weeks and we all see each other quite regularly. So, for example, I wouldn’t go to London without telling my son I was going to be there and asking if he was free and wanted to meet up. I find that they tend to share information about their lives during mealtimes or when walking the dogs. I tend to listen unless asked for advice, unless a situation is glaringly awful.

 

[piccolopat]

OP, I would strongly recommend he stay and enjoy Greece, with or without her. He needs to really look at this relationship long term but that's for him to decide and maybe a few days alone will shine some light on things. I'd be concerned about someone who has a master's degree but can't manage their finances. We're not talking complex issues but she had to know her utilities were at risk of being cut off before deciding to travel with a pretty new BF and having no spending money to bring. I would urge him to be extra careful to make sure pregnancy doesn't happen. She's already shown she can be a manipulator. If she gets pregnant that will only get worse.

 

[Gracedis1]

The girlfriend sounds exhausting. She needs to go home and he should enjoy the vacation. I hope your son does some soul searching about the kind of person he wants to spend his time with. Your twenties are a special time when you learn so much about yourself. I've told my kids it's important to surround yourself with people who can add to your life and you can add to theirs. It's a skill to learn who those people are, and who to let go of if it's not a good fit.

 

[tzolkin]

"well that is strange but your and adult and that's your adult gf, good luck and hopefully have fun" - click

I really can't imagine being that dismissive of anyone who called me and was upset in this situation. Of course, son will need to make his own decisions about what to do (both at this moment and moving forward with the relationship), but to just tell someone basically "Oh well, that sucks" and hang up seems unnecessarily harsh.

I did not know then, but do know now, that I am autistic, and I'm just wired differently than "regular" folks. Not trying to diagnose your son's girlfriend over the internet at all, but... it would explain the odd outbursts, the rigidity, the strict diet.

I was thinking the same thing, especially after the Welsh comments/inability to read the room (and the extreme food limiting). Some of the things about her that OP describes as odd may just be the result of her off-grid/alternative upbringing, but if she's autistic and was brought up in an environment that lacked opportunities for socialization then she may have quite a bit more to work on than just managing her finances.

 

[Scotgirl]

There is so much truth and wisdom in everything people have written. I am so grateful to you all for responding. By discussing it here, it has really made me see the different perspectives. I thought that I was being kind, but maybe, if I had not offered the credit card points she would have told my son that she couldn’t actually afford the holiday. She told my son that she loved him within weeks of meeting him and maybe the gift of the holiday was a way of somehow cementing the relationship. I am still not quite sure I understand why she now won’t allow my son to pay for everything during the trip, and although it isn’t my business, I am grateful for the opportunity to voice my concerns here. Kids huh, who says it gets easier.

I would say one thing - is it not the point that we want to give our kids a better life and experiences than we did as kids/young people? I regularly give things/ pay for things for my kids - not because they ask but because I want to. If you have it to spare it's nothing to do with anyone else how you spare it! Now the girlfriend on the other hand - wowsers! Hopefully at least he'll manage to have a nice holiday.

 

[Kennywood]

They need to break up. She needs to go home. He needs to enjoy the rest of a stress-free vacation.

 

[Jangles]

The gf has left the building, well flown back to the U.K. at least. Son loaned her the money for a taxi to the airport and the flight. He is a little flat, but about to go out and find some squid and souvlaki and a cold beer.

 

[Jangles]

And now he is sending photographs of food. Shrimp saganaki, olives, tapenade, beer. Never easy eating alone, but I am so glad he is doing it. Thank you everyone for travelling on this journey with me.

 

[Jangles]

And now he is sending photographs of food. Shrimp saganaki, olives, tapenade, beer. Never easy eating alone, but I am so glad he is doing it. Thank you everyone for travelling on this journey with me.

 

[Lilsia]

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Good for your son. The easier thing would have been just to fly home also. This will give him some time to think about what he wants out of the relationship and if it is worth it. Nothing wrong with traveling solo either. I do it all the time. Hoping to go to London in the next couple of years.