Marathon Weekend 2023

[Herding_Cats]

On a completely DIFFERENT note...

OKW vs SS for a studio. Anyone have opinions? We have stayed at OKW 2x (one night in a 2br during covid stuff *POR upgrade*, and then this past MW in a 1br. I like how quiet it is at OKW, and that there are hot tubs at the quiet pools. I don't like that I can be almost a mile from the HH for the bus to the race, and I don't like that all of the food options are basically in one spot. We have never stayed at SS, but I like the potential for tons of easy food options with DS being *right there.*

 

[DopeyBadger]

This is the first time I'm doing the marathon, and first time I want to try and submit a POT. Maybe I'm bad at math, but why is it that the cutoff for the half POT is 2:07 and not 2:15? Isn't running the marathon under 4:30 running under a 10:30mm pace?

For you and others curious on the past POT runDisney system. Can't say definitively they will continue to use the same system.

POT (Proof of Time) Race Equivalency Cutoff Confirmed Times



An example on how to use the above:

A runner has a 1:58:00 HM time that is POT submittable.
-If they run the HM as a solo event and submit the 1:58 HM time, then they will be assigned s1. That is because the HM time is less than 2 hours. See bottom table.
-If they run the M as a solo event and submit the 1:58 HM time, then they will be assigned s3 for the M. That is because the HM time is between 1:53:46-2:07:48 which is the estimated bucket for s3.
-If they run Dopey and submit the 1:58 HM time, then they will be assigned s3 for the HM and M. That is because the HM time is between 1:53:46-2:07:48 which is the estimated bucket for s3. In some years, the 1:58 HM POT would mean a s3 for the 5k/10k (despite having 5k/10k estimated paces at registration), and in other years they've assigned you based on the 5k/10k estimated pace submission at registration (editable up to the POT deadline).

So if you're running either the M/Goofy/Dopey, then you look at the top table. If you're running the HM as a solo event (or a HM Challenge weekend that doesn't include a M), then you look at the bottom table.

McMillan uses T2=T1 X (D2/D1)^1.07 for both the conversion of HM to M and for 10k to HM. So using the above table I've generated you can see there are advantages to submitting certain POT distances depending on the race you're doing.

-If you're doing the M/Goofy/Dopey, then it's most advantageous to submit a 10 miler. That's because the POT calculator they use for M/Goofy/Dopey treats all distances equally at a roughly 1.079 Riegel value. Since they're all equal in conversion, an individual runner is most likely to achieve the 10 miler time threshold before they can meet either the HM or M threshold. For an example above, it's more likely a runner can do a 1:35 10 miler than a 2:07 HM or 4:30 M.

-If you're doing the HM solo event (or a HM as part of a non-M challenge such as Fairy Tale), then it's more advantageous to aim for a 10 miler or M. The 10k appears to be receiving a conversion of 1.055 (pretty standard value). But the 10 miler and M oddly appear to be much lower at 1.015 and 1.124. So in my opinion you're more likely to hit the 10 mile or M time, than your are the 10k or HM time. For an example above, I think it's easier to hit a 1:42 10 miler or 4:54 M, then it is to hit a 2:15 HM or 1:01 10k.

Edit to Add - If you're ever curious about the POT cutoffs, reach out to runDisney. They will tell you where you fall using their calculator. They will not share the calculation. But an accumulation of data has allowed me to come up with a reasonable estimate.

 

[camaker]

I'm at Disney this week and didn't pay attention to registration but what a cluster it appears to have been. Any word on what the root cause was? Someone trip on the power cable to the server farm or something?

The runners trying to register staged a very successful denial of service attack on the registration system, essentially taking it down and causing a 2.5 hour delay in the start of actual registration. In all seriousness, it seems demand for this race weekend reverted to peak running boom levels and runners showed up to registration wielding anywhere from one to twelve open browser tabs. All races sold out in 24 (5k) to 67 (M) minutes.

 

[DopeyBadger]

On a completely DIFFERENT note...

OKW vs SS for a studio. Anyone have opinions? We have stayed at OKW 2x (one night in a 2br during covid stuff *POR upgrade*, and then this past MW in a 1br. I like how quiet it is at OKW, and that there are hot tubs at the quiet pools. I don't like that I can be almost a mile from the HH for the bus to the race, and I don't like that all of the food options are basically in one spot. We have never stayed at SS, but I like the potential for tons of easy food options with DS being *right there.*

We stayed at SS for Princess 2022. We really liked it and plan to do it again for Princess 2023. I really liked staying in Building 8500-8800. Close to runDisney pick-up, main pool, most of the dining. I believe it was a 12 min walk for me from door to runDisney bus pick-up. The one downside for us was that the main pool did not require any type of key entry. So we suspect there were some people who came from Disney Springs to use the pool (nothing solid, just a suspicion). So the pool was uber filled and all chairs taken pretty much right at opening.

 

[ZellyB]

For what it's worth, I am in the crowded boat with you. Being anal, I emailed Track Shack to find out about the possibility of being placed in the higher start group. This was their response:

Thanks for reaching out. Unfortunately, during the verification process, the time that a proof would equal to would place that participant in the corresponding start group. For example, the 2:08:52 half marathon would calculate to a 4:32, which would place you in that corresponding start group of 4:31-5:00. Your time will not start until you cross the start line and then stop once you cross the finish, but this is just the starting placement that is assigned. What we can encourage is if you don't have any other proof from a 10 mile, half or full marathon that took place between January 1, 2019 - September 27, 2022, and you still provide the 2:08:52 half marathon, on race morning, arrive to your start group early to get to the very front. This way once your start group is released, you will be able to catch up to the other first start group.

We wish you magical miles!

Personally, I'm not going to risk it because I can easily see someone being annoyed with a non-qualifying POT and punish them by placing them in the last starting group. One never knows and then you'd have to deal with the runDisney organizers to try to sort out your appropriate starting group.

I'm at Disney this week and didn't pay attention to registration but what a cluster it appears to have been. Any word on what the root cause was? Someone trip on the power cable to the server farm or something?

This strikes me as a more specific reply than I've seen from them in the past. It's a least comforting to see them say that would still place you in the 4:31-5:00 group. But, yeah, worth the risk? YMMV. I'll just hope DH and DD can manage to get something in the 2:07 range instead.

 

[ZellyB]

Just on a general running thought as well, has anybody noticed an uptick in registration demand for other races? Did COVID maybe reawaken some running enthusiasts in general? After all, it was something you could get out and do in the great outdoors without a mask.

 

[Joe90]

Any lawyers in this group?
If you hold a lottery and the prize is in Florida does Florida statute 849.09 apply?
If you open a webpage and the prize is a chance to run in a runDisney race in Florida and the virtual line wasn't a line but a lottery dictated by chance and you didn't get permission to hold such a lottery, who gets in trouble?

 

[Ariel484]

runDisney has always had horrible customer service and horrible IT. This year was just another iteration of that, but so long as I keep going back for more punishment, I feel like any complaints I have are pretty hollow. I'm in an abusive relationship with Disney and runDisney and I own that.

+1 to their customer service. I think of them as being a pretty mysterious organization in a way because they never come out and address/explain anything. They're not going to issue an apology or explanation, or give a credit. Why? They don't have to. Stuff like this can happen and we'll all still line up and fight one another to give them our money. I think they are well aware of this.
EDIT: I'm not saying this to defend them in any way...just how I read the situation. They know they have a unique product and I've thought for awhile that they believe they can get away with a lot because people will keep coming back for their races.




As an aside...remember how much people hated registering for their races through Active.com back in the day?? Remember a race being ON HOLD?? The % sellout bars? Wild to think about how things are now.

 

[GreatLakes]

Any lawyers in this group?
If you hold a lottery and the prize is in Florida does Florida statute 849.09 apply?
If you open a webpage and the prize is a chance to run in a runDisney race in Florida and the virtual line wasn't a line but a lottery dictated by chance and you didn't get permission to hold such a lottery, who gets in trouble?

I'm no lawyer but unless the winners got free entries this wouldn't fall under that statute. The chance to win a right to register, even if you apply that standard, likely negates the ability to sue.

 

[camaker]

As an aside...remember how much people hated registering for their races through Active.com back in the day?? Remember a race being ON HOLD?? The % sellout bars? Wild to think about how things are now.

I'll take what we've got now over the Active days, any time!

 

[DopeyBadger]

As an aside...remember how much people hated registering for their races through Active.com back in the day?? Remember a race being ON HOLD?? The % sellout bars? Wild to think about how things are now.

I went back to the 2014 thread to see how quick Dopey sold out in the first year. It was fun to see all the % progress updates throughout as it got closer to sell out. Different times indeed. For those interested, it was just at about 36 hrs for Dopey to sell out in year one from my recollection of looking at it yesterday.

 

[lukemorenus]

I'll take what we've got now over the Active days, any time!

Agreed

 

[Ariel484]

I went back to the 2014 thread to see how quick Dopey sold out in the first year. It was fun to see all the % progress updates throughout as it got closer to sell out. Different times indeed. For those interested, it was just at about 36 hrs for Dopey to sell out in year one from my recollection of looking at it yesterday.

People have been unofficially doing "Dopey" for awhile (5K + Goofy) so I think runDisney knew it was going to be a popular idea.

I should also explain - and anyone feel free to correct me if I am remembering this wrong - if you were in the process of registering, you had your spot held until you checked out. That is what a race being "ON HOLD" meant - it wasn't officially sold out yet, but if everyone that was currently in the process of checking out actually did check out, the race would be full. Obviously they aren't doing things like that anymore. I do wish they'd go back to that for those that were shut out on the payment page...but they also didn't have the multiple registration/ability to register more people within the same transaction options, so those are nice to have (and are things I know people were asking for).

I'm not really trying to make any kind of point here just sort of thinking about how different things are now...

 

[ZellyB]

Yeah, I did like that I think Active held your spot so no last minute shut out, but I think I'd rather have the ability to register multiple people. But, that's probably because I'm always registering multiple people. LOL

 

[dancingtodisney]

Don’t forget Everest has a single rider line that is often super fast to get through

YES so true! Last time I was with my Dad and Sister and we really want that ride photo together... this time I'm solo!

 

[Let's Get Kronk]

I'm no lawyer but unless the winners got free entries this wouldn't fall under that statute. The chance to win a right to register, even if you apply that standard, likely negates the ability to sue.

Lawyer here, and this is correct. The ability to register for a race would not be considered a "thing of value" such that it would fall under this statute, at least by my initial reading. If the prize were free registrations, that would be a thing of value because it is worth money. The ability to register is not of value per se because you still have to pay for the race. If one could sell their race slot to someone else I would imagine that somebody could try to argue it's worth something, but I am pretty sure that is not allowed with runDisney races.

 

[camaker]

People have been unofficially doing "Dopey" for awhile (5K + Goofy) so I think runDisney knew it was going to be a popular idea.

I should also explain - and anyone feel free to correct me if I am remembering this wrong - if you were in the process of registering, you had your spot held until you checked out. That is what a race being "ON HOLD" meant - it wasn't officially sold out yet, but if everyone that was currently in the process of checking out actually did check out, the race would be full. Obviously they aren't doing things like that anymore. I do wish they'd go back to that for those that were shut out on the payment page...but they also didn't have the multiple registration/ability to register more people within the same transaction options, so those are nice to have (and are things I know people were asking for).

I'm not really trying to make any kind of point here just sort of thinking about how different things are now...

I could certainly get behind an idea that once you'd made it into the queue the race you selected was "held" for you for a limited time to prevent selling out during the check out process. There are a couple of other things that would need to go along with that, though.

First, you might need to eliminate or severely curtail the number of registrations one person could do simultaneously to prevent the early entrants from bogging down the system to get their whole group of friends registered.

Second, that approach can result in a different type of unfairness that I don't know how you'd prevent. Say enough runners in the system have the entire stock of Dopey bibs accounted for. When runners right after them get through, Dopey isn't available to them. Now say some of the first set don't complete their transactions on time and Dopey bibs are released back into the wild. You'll have a number of runners who "got there later" able to register for Dopey when earlier runners weren't able. Pretty much the same situation some are complaining about from this registration.

 

[Joe90]

I'm no lawyer but unless the winners got free entries this wouldn't fall under that statute. The chance to win a right to register, even if you apply that standard, likely negates the ability to sue.

If you want to win the Florida lottery you have to buy a ticket.
If you give away a free entry into the lottery for a chance to buy a race entry, is a race entry of any value?

849.09 (1) (a) Set up, promote, or conduct any lottery for money or for anything of value;

 

[camaker]

If you want to win the Florida lottery you have to buy a ticket.
If you give away a free entry into the lottery for a chance to buy a race entry, is a race entry of any value?

849.09 (1) (a) Set up, promote, or conduct any lottery for money or for anything of value;

As I understand it, Disney uses this waiting room to queue approach for everything from limited events to limited merchandise drops. I'm willing to bet that they've pressure tested the approach with their in-house lawyers.

I think we're getting a bit carried away trying to suggest something illegal was done during a race registration situation.

 

[dancingtodisney]

On a completely DIFFERENT note...

OKW vs SS for a studio. Anyone have opinions? We have stayed at OKW 2x (one night in a 2br during covid stuff *POR upgrade*, and then this past MW in a 1br. I like how quiet it is at OKW, and that there are hot tubs at the quiet pools. I don't like that I can be almost a mile from the HH for the bus to the race, and I don't like that all of the food options are basically in one spot. We have never stayed at SS, but I like the potential for tons of easy food options with DS being *right there.*

For me I choose OKW for the two beds and more space in a studio vs SS but I stay on DVC points