Disney apologizes for cheer routine

[mjkacmom]

I’m not sure if black face was a well known term when I was growing up but I clearly remember kids in middle school dressing up as their favorite black singers/actors for Halloween. it just wasn’t considered a bad thing to do. I don’t believe these were bad kids or bad parents for allowing it. Social norms change. If I had to guess, big stores like Walmart , target , Amazon ect.. will not carry “Indian” costumes anymore.

There is nothing wrong with dressing up as your hero for Halloween, but black face is not okay. My son chose Michael jordan for an english project, he wore a basketball jersey.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My DH is Indian and he thinks it's stupid and laughs at people who do it. He thinks they're idiots who aren't smart enough to tell the difference between Native Americans and Indians. Our kids think it's dumb and find it offensive as do many Indians I know.

I was going to respond yesterday but wasn't quite certain what your original comment was really about until others commented.

You're in the U.S. so context matters. When people say Indian the context is going to be almost always to refer to American Indians (or Native Americans previously).

If you were in India the context would matter and you would naturally be able to ascertain people are referring to those who are from India.

If your husband thinks it's stupid, if your kids think it's dumb I respectfully need to call that to attention. Perhaps it is they who are unable to ascertain context. It might be a good time to teach that lesson.

I will also note with my sister-in-law dating a Pakistani I also understand that when he normally discusses Indians he is referring to those who are from India.

See...I can understand context. I know others can too

 

[Skywalker]

It just seems to me that people get a pass when the offensive stereotype is of an American Indian (I looked up how to address our indigenous peoples as a group, such as African-American, Caucasian, and found that many prefer to be called this, so it's what I'm using for now.) You see it every Halloween when the 'Indian' costumes and plastic tomahawks come out. It's like American Indians are the last ethnic group in the US to get respect shown to them for their traditions. There are good people out there who would NEVER even consider dressing up in, say, blackface for Halloween, but will happily stain their faces red and wear an 'Indian' costume. Do people really not see that the offense is the same?

The bolded reminds me of years ago in middle school my son (who is white) was very close friends with a boy who was First Nations/indigenous. One year, they decided to go out for Halloween as "cowboys and indians", but they "reversed" it. My son got the full on headdress/plastic tomahawk outfit and his friend dressed up as a cowboy. I have never seen two kids laugh so much in my life.

No one was offended, no harm was intended and it was all in good fun.

 

[tzolkin]

Ok, so they have a plains style headdress paired with a totem pole from the Pacific Northwest? So they aren't claiming any particular tribe as their mascot just Native Americans in general I suppose? Somehow that seems worse to me.

I think someone posted earlier that the school claimed the "culture" they were representing was Cherokee-- which, of course, does not make any sense with the geographic location, the Plains headdress, and the totem pole.

Honestly, this is one of the main reasons anything with "Indian" logos/mascots/etc is problematic regardless of whether the people behind it are intending to be racist or not. Even when they are trying to be as respectful as possible, it still always winds up perpetuating the "stoic Indian warrior" stereotype that lumps hundreds of vastly different cultures into one generic fantasy depiction.

It would be like having a generic Asian stereotype that pulls random elements from different Asian cultures and has a gibberish language. I'm pretty sure that every one of us would find that racist and offensive, but for some reason when the same thing is done with indigenous Americans many view it through a romanticized lens and it's somehow justified as "honoring the noble Indian brave"

 

[Colleen27]

Ok, so they have a plains style headdress paired with a totem pole from the Pacific Northwest? So they aren't claiming any particular tribe as their mascot just Native Americans in general I suppose? Somehow that seems worse to me.

Yeah, that mishmash of different, distant tribal cultures - Plains headdress and dancing styles, Pacific Northwest totem - along with the use of "the reservation" as a cute nickname for their home turf despite the painful and tragic history of actual reservations makes any claim of "honoring the culture" hard to believe. It reads a lot more like a group of people proud of their insensitivity flexing in a juvenile "You can't make me!" sort of way.

Ironically, but not surprisingly, it appears this school district also makes a habit of banning books based on "offensive content".

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I dunno. Maybe I’m different, but I find disparaging hillbillies and pirates unsavory, too.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I did see a picture of their headdresses and thought it was a strange choice for teen girls from south Texas. That type of feathered headdress is not associated with any of the Native American people who lived on the gulf coast. They were worn by men in some of the nations of the upper plains, and had strong religious significance, but that religion was not Christianity. In some of the news articles, the school seems to attribute some of the "traditions" as honoring the Cherokee nation. The Cherokee people did not live in that part of Texas and Cherokee men do not wear that style of headdress.

So, who is it that they are trying to "honor" with their "traditions"?

I believe some bands of Cherokee did live in the southern part of Texas. Although it wasn't a state at the time and still belonged to Mexico. The removal forced many to relocate before being herded into Oklahoma. Sad time in our history

 

[Redart59]

There is nothing wrong with dressing up as your hero for Halloween, but black face is not okay. My son chose Michael jordan for an english project, he wore a basketball jersey.

It was definitely done with good intentions. I honestly don’t remember if they attempted to darken their skin or not but they definitely wore Afro wigs and attempted to style their hair the way the person they were dressing up as did.
from what I see on social media, white people are no longer allowed to do this.
I am in no way an expert on this subject. Just what I read.
My point was that society has changed a lot in the last few decades on what if finds acceptable.

 

[dcassetta]

I believe some bands of Cherokee did live in the southern part of Texas. Although it wasn't a state at the time and still belonged to Mexico. The removal forced many to relocate before being herded into Oklahoma. Sad time in our history

Historically, there were small groups of Cherokee people in Texas, but not that far south.

 

[Sinder]

Our town is named after the Indian tribe that was settled here before the colonists. Therefore all the sports teams are the "Indians". I think the HS brought up changing the name a few years ago but nothing ever came of it.

 

[Boopuff]

My DH grew up in a small town that clings to their HS mascot “the Indians”. They justify it -as other schools do - as honoring the native tribe. Now the hilarious part of this: the tribe maintains hunting/fishing rights in the county, so guess who the locals complain about during hunt/fish season!

 

[NotUrsula]

I'm a Hoosier and I never attended Indiana University. A Hoosier, while having been adopted by IU as their "mascot", is a term used to refer to a person who lives in Indiana...anywhere in the states.

Except in Missouri. Entirely different meaning here ... a derogatory one. The average Missourian never uses the word with any connection to Indiana unless it is to the University athletic teams, but even that's unusual. Most people who have pretentions to good manners prefer to avoid the word altogether.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Except in Missouri. Entirely different meaning here ... a derogatory one. The average Missourian never uses the word with any connection to Indiana unless it is to the University athletic teams, but even that's unusual. Most people who have pretentions to good manners prefer to avoid the word altogether.

Checking up on that it seems to only be a STL thing not the entire state. Admittedly most I know do only use the name for athletic teams though but never met someone over here who uses it as a derogatory name but sources show in STL it is.

"The word "hoosier" has long been used in Greater St. Louis as a pejorative for an unintelligent or uncultured person."

 

[NotUrsula]

Checking up on that it seems to only be a STL thing not the entire state. Admittedly most I know do only use the name for athletic teams though but never met someone over here who uses it as a derogatory name but sources show in STL it is.

"The word "hoosier" has long been used in Greater St. Louis as a pejorative for an unintelligent or uncultured person."

Probably not the KC area, but definitely the lower outstate area, as far south as Branson for sure.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Probably not the KC area, but definitely the lower outstate area, as far south as Branson for sure.

IDK just going by what I read where it only spoke to STL (included parts of IL since it said the greater metro) not the state as a whole. Some of my husband's family lives in STL. I'll have to ask if that's their experience. My mom also went to school in St Charles for 2 years and father-in-law's wife's mom and all still lives there. Wonder what their experience was/is. IDK if you were thinking Ozarks or not but I could ask my mom if all the years my grandparents lived there what their experience was, I have visited Ozarks many more times than Branson though and of course when in Branson it was more touristy not locals area.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

The bolded reminds me of years ago in middle school my son (who is white) was very close friends with a boy who was First Nations/indigenous. One year, they decided to go out for Halloween as "cowboys and indians", but they "reversed" it. My son got the full on headdress/plastic tomahawk outfit and his friend dressed up as a cowboy. I have never seen two kids laugh so much in my life.

No one was offended, no harm was intended and it was all in good fun.

Who dressed up as a the Biker and Cop??

 

[mom2rtk]

Except in Missouri. Entirely different meaning here ... a derogatory one. The average Missourian never uses the word with any connection to Indiana unless it is to the University athletic teams, but even that's unusual. Most people who have pretentions to good manners prefer to avoid the word altogether.

I live in KC (entire life except 4 years away at college). Son went to Rolla for 4 years, daughter in 3rd year in Columbia. Never heard that.

 

[RedAngie]

Who dressed up as a the Biker and Cop??

And the construction worker and Army dude?

 

[dmfordo]

Checking up on that it seems to only be a STL thing not the entire state. Admittedly most I know do only use the name for athletic teams though but never met someone over here who uses it as a derogatory name but sources show in STL it is.

"The word "hoosier" has long been used in Greater St. Louis as a pejorative for an unintelligent or uncultured person."

I haven't heard Hoosier used in STL in a long time, but it's definitely a term most will have heard. If anyone is watching "The Thing About Pam" on NBC you will have heard Pam Hupp use the word Hoosier in two of the episodes. For those unaware, that's the show Renee Zellweger is in that's based on Pam Hupp who was the subject of several dateline episodes regarding the killing of her friend Betsy Faria. This all occurred in a small town outside of St. Louis. I thought NBC did their homework on Pam using the word Hoosier. I wondered if the rest of the country watching was confused on why Pam was talking about Indiana.

 

[Babs Johnson]

That was cringe worthy even before the offensive chant. Stereotypical "Indian" movements galore. I wouldn't be surprised if at one time the group was called The Squaws.

My high school team was the Braves. I graduated in 1976 and even then there were misgivings about it. The mascot was a guy wearing a feathered headdress and carrying a rubber tomahawk, and he was accompanied by 4 or 5 "Indian maidens."

At least the logo was a "respectable" profile of a Native American, not an offensive caricature like the Cleveland Chief Wahoo. And no war cries or chants or tomahawk chopping gestures.

My HS changed its name to the Golden Eagles about 1992.

Everything I've read about that high school in Texas seems to indicate that they're going out of their way to be offensive, Certainly they must know such images are frowned upon at the minimum and condemned by many. Yet they double down, That "honoring Native Americans" explanation is a crock of horse crap and they damn well know it.

Why not just wear white sheets and make it obvious?