The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[WishUponAStarryNight]

CT governor announced today that all restrictions and mask requirements will be lifted on May 19 (except for perhaps masks in schools). “Normal” is just a month away....

 

[Princess Merida]

I’m in Virginia and vaccines are available to everyone 16 and up I believe as of today. I was able to get my Johnson and Johnson shot last Monday only to find out they pulled it on Tuesday, but I’m glad I got it. Had some body aches and tiredness, but back to normal now. Hoping for more return to normalcy soon.

 

[DCLMP]

CT governor announced today that all restrictions and mask requirements will be lifted on May 19 (except for perhaps masks in schools). “Normal” is just a month away....

Ours was lifted months ago, but businesses still require them. Is there such a thing as normal anymore?

 

[DCLMP]

"Lack of need" is still (to this day) an illusion though. Unfortunately, some people learned it the hard way*.

(People who thought they had a strong immune system capable of beating it easily.)

Most people do beat it, but maybe we shouldn't turn this thread into another judgemental thread?

 

[mevelandry]

Most people do beat it, but maybe we shouldn't turn this thread into another judgemental thread?

*Edited*

Agree to disagree: I was stating a fact, not being judgmental.

Plus, I have compassion for all of those who have been infected. No matter how seriously (or not) they have been taking this virus.

 

[n2mm]

Your guesses as to why some people may prefer not to be vaccinated don't include several reasonable concerns and/or a perceived lack of need.

fear and politics Seem to be the reasons We’ve been hearing when we ask others why they don’t get it. Too many here still believe this is a hoax and that it’s going to go away on its own.

we are now suffering from vaccine hesitancy here in WV

 

[DCLMP]

*Edited*

Agree to disagree: I was stating a fact, not being judgmental.

Plus, I have compassion for all of those who have been infected. No matter how seriously (or not) they have been taking this virus.

Agreed, but people should be able to state their concerns about the vaccine or simply not want it without being made to feel stupid. I feel like a lot of the comments on here not by you necessarily kind of imply that.
There a lot of information written by credible iwritten by doctors and scientist on both sides. When I read a comment from someone saying their getting their medicine advice from FB .I find that kind of insulting. Again not you.

 

[anricat]

There a lot of information written by credible iwritten by doctors and scientist on both sides.

There are no credible doctors or scientists who have written anything credible regarding why the vast majority of the population shouldn't get the vaccine. There are some very small and few exceptions for some people with very unique medical situations, but certainly not to the tune of the 30-40% of people who say that they won't get it. All credible doctors and scientists in virology/epidemiology are saying to get vaccinated. The people who aren't listening aren't "stupid" but humans, by their nature, have very skewed risk calculations.

 

[DCLMP]

There are no credible doctors or scientists who have written anything credible regarding why the vast majority of the population shouldn't get the vaccine. There are some very small and few exceptions for some people with very unique medical situations, but certainly not to the tune of the 30-40% of people who say that they won't get it. All credible doctors and scientists in virology/epidemiology are saying to get vaccinated. The people who aren't listening aren't "stupid" but humans, by their nature, have very skewed risk calculations.

If your just looking at percentages the risk calculation of that 30 to 40% is spot on. I have no opinion on wether some one should or should not get the vaccine, but I can see by the numbers the risk of dying from Covid or having an adverse reaction from the vaccine are extremely low.

 

[cardiacnurse_sk]

There are no credible doctors or scientists who have written anything credible regarding why the vast majority of the population shouldn't get the vaccine. There are some very small and few exceptions for some people with very unique medical situations, but certainly not to the tune of the 30-40% of people who say that they won't get it. All credible doctors and scientists in virology/epidemiology are saying to get vaccinated. The people who aren't listening aren't "stupid" but humans, by their nature, have very skewed risk calculations.

I love the quote about human's having very skewed risk calculations and I feel like that is the best explanation I have seen in a long time about why folks are so hesitant to be vaccinated even as we see (at least in Michigan) rates rise again....I am able to offer vaccines to ever patient I admit in my local hospital, and of the percentage that are not already vaccinated, I would say that only 1 in 10 choose to have the vaccine's 1st dose during their stay.

 

[DCLMP]

I love the quote about human's having very skewed risk calculations and I feel like that is the best explanation I have seen in a long time about why folks are so hesitant to be vaccinated even as we see (at least in Michigan) rates rise again....I am able to offer vaccines to ever patient I admit in my local hospital, and of the percentage that are not already vaccinated, I would say that only 1 in 10 choose to have the vaccine's 1st dose during their stay.

Why is the risk skewed when the recovery rate is 99.5% or higher. I'm part of that of percent. If you want to prevent getting Covid maybe your analysis would make sense, but the chance of dying from it is extremely low. I think that's what people are looking at when they decide whether they want to take a new vaccine with a lot of unknowns.

 

[Intr3pid]

Why is the risk skewed when the recovery rate is 99.5% or higher. I'm part of that of percent. If you want to prevent getting Covid maybe your analysis would make sense, but the chance of dying from it is extremely low. I think that's what people are looking at when they decide whether they want to take a new vaccine with a lot of unknowns.

We have discussed this topic to death in the past - and there is very little interest in educating someone who still is unsure - but this one graph should sum it up.

 

[DCLMP]

We have discussed this topic to death in the past - and there is very little interest in educating someone who still is unsure - but this one graph should sum it up.

View attachment 569569

Statistically dying from any of those is very low, and the people that do die from Covid already have many of those other things you listed. You also didn't break it down by age and health status.

 

[AquaDame]

Statistically dying from any of those is very low, and the people that do die from Covid already have many of those other things you listed. You also didn't break it down by age and health status.

Statistically the rate of death from covid-19 itself is much higher than the risk of death from the vaccines*. I'm not a gambler... I don't have it in me. If there was something I could easily do to greatly mitigate my risk of death from everything else on the chart as well, I'd do it. In fact, when they released the HPV vaccine I got it. Still waiting on something to come out for the myriad of others...

*"Over 211 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through April 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 3,486 reports of death (0.0016%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." It is vital to note that this figure includes EVERY person who has been vaccinated and died, regardless of cause. I am not sure there is an official figure for people who died due to the vaccine itself; there are some very notable deaths that very could well be, such as the unfortunate people who died due to blood clotting that is being investigated. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html


https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_totaldeaths

 

[Intr3pid]

Statistically dying from any of those is very low, and the people that do die from Covid already have many of those other things you listed. You also didn't break it down by age and health status.

Let's entertain for a moment that these numbers are statistically not important. OK. There are 36,000 motor vehicle deaths annually in the US. I take it our cars shouldn't need breaks or seat belts then? Or we should do away with licensed pilots when there are less than 2,000 air travel fatalities every year? Or scrap the enforcement of the rule of law altogether when there are just 20,000 homicides annually?

'Statistically', if you didn't have protection measures or vaccines, you would see happen in the entire country what did in Italy or NY last March - a 10% fatality rate. Maybe some don't care - they don't seem to care about cancer, heart disease, car accidents, rule of law, and everything else - so COVID vaccines aren't for them either. The rest of us are after a better quality of life and choose to live how for this very reason.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

Statistically dying from any of those is very low, and the people that do die from Covid already have many of those other things you listed. You also didn't break it down by age and health status.

Death isn't the only negative outcome of getting COVID. By focusing on the mortality rate, you are missing people who may have lived but are suffering permanent health impairments from it. There are people who now need double lung transplants and kidney transplants. Some people have suffered strokes and damage to their hearts from COVID. A significant number of people are suffering from Long COVID. I spoke to a family friend a few weeks ago who came down with COVID in October and still can't climb a flight of stairs without becoming out of breath.

 

[Intr3pid]

How your economic growth is tied to your success against the pandemic:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/21/cor...t-economies-before-covid-pandemic-vs-now.html
2020:



2019:



Some major highlights:

1. China - sporting a a heavy-handed control of COVID at home - has narrowed the gap with the US.
2. India - hit hard by the pandemic - has slipped behind the UK, which is leading most countries in national vaccination rates.
3. Brazil - another country hit hard by (and politically motivated against) the pandemic - has disappeared entirely from the top 10 list.
4. South Korea - a COVID success story - has secured the 10th spot.

 

[mevelandry]

IMO, the survival rate says... absolutely nothing. The most important rate is the one that involves those who recover but suffered severe symptoms (with mid/long term consequences like strokes and heart attacks) and long haulers.

Now for those who care so much about survival rates, I don’t know about you but I’d pick 0,0016% over 1,4% (that’s the most recent data I have found) anytime, especially since the first one can protect me —and most likely others— against the latter (Not only from death but also from severe symptoms).

 

[cgolf]

2. India - hit hard by the pandemic - has slipped behind the UK, which is leading most countries in national vaccination rates.
3. Brazil - another country hit hard by (and politically motivated against) the pandemic - has disappeared entirely from the top 10 list.

For those that think the vaccine is not effective, look at these two countries, and for sure it sounds like India's vaccines are rolling out slowly. While India for sure is more densely packed than the US, big cities in the US, more densely packed, are seeing rates much lower to the vaccine roll out and safety precautions that have been taken. Just because the US is in an ok, for now, place right now doesn't mean we can go back to living life like Covid never existed. The danger is this thing continuing to mutate and the more hosts there are, the more it will mutate. Usually, viruses tend to mutate to weaker more infectious strains. The new variant from India may go against that and be more deadly and more contagious. Also the UK variant seems to be hitting younger people more here. Might be a high percentage of older people are vaccinated now?

 

[cardiacnurse_sk]

IMO, the survival rate says... absolutely nothing. The most important rate is the one that involves those who recover but suffered severe symptoms (with mid/long term consequences like strokes and heart attacks) and long haulers.

Now for those who care so much about survival rates, I don’t know about you but I’d pick 0,0016% over 1,4% (that’s the most recent data I have found) anytime, especially since the first one can protect me —and most likely others— against the latter (Not only from death but also from severe symptoms).

I will not at all pretend to be an expert on the global or national rates or on all the risk numbers, but anecdotally after spending more than a year working in a COVID step-down/progressive care unit, my own experience has seen many of our patients who were initially admitted with COVID (some with significant comorbities and some without) turn into "frequent fliers" with other heart and lung issues. I do believe the vaccine is a very personal choice - several of the health care providers and professionals I work with chose not to get it for a variety of reasons - but I do agree that there is more to risk analysis that survival rates can begin to show.