Las Vegas Shooting

[LYSE]

Sometimes big dramatic events and all that's needed for urgent action to be taken.

Unfortunately they do drive popular opinion right or wrong.

The media has us believe we are less safe, when in reality we all have never been safer.

We need to all make informed decisions and not rash emotional ones.

 

[Domo]

Unfortunately they do drive popular opinion right or wrong.

The media has us believe we are less safe, when in reality we all have never been safer.

We need to all make informed decisions and not rash emotional ones.

You need to find a relatively unbiased news source. Over here in the UK, most sources are slated left or right, but there are a few - the FT and the Evening Standard for example - that are up the straight and narrow. And it's a pleasure to read them.

 

[wonder whisper]

You can't beat UK home grown stereokit. Brands such as Cyrus, Rega, Linn, ProAc, PMC... screw Bose and B&O! We're talking big boys here! Just don't be shocked when you see the prices! Then you'll be wanting gold or silver cabling and connectors, acoustic dampeners for the walls, separate pre and power amps... all more money. To give you an idea, I once sold a £80,000 system including a jade needle for a Rega turntable. But damn, did it ever sound good!

Yes, the UK is home to the most active and productive industry of small to mid sized analog stereo manufacturing. I actually got my start in serious analog with a Scottish Ariston Q-deck turntable decades ago. Currently using a Czech made Pro-ject 7.1 with an Ortofon MC25FL cartridge.

 

[TLSnell1981]

nevermind.

 

[Domo]

Yes, the UK is home to the most active and productive industry of small to mid sized analog stereo manufacturing. I actually got my start in serious analog with a Scottish Ariston Q-deck turntable decades ago. Currently using a Czech made Pro-ject 7.1 with an Ortofon MC25FL cartridge.

Pro-ject make superb turntables! Then again, LPs do I feel still give out the best sound possible. Digital just feels flat?

 

[ELKA]

get what your saying but again I'm looking at the big picture here, not just the rare attention grabbing events.

Also Israel has plenty of attacks stopped by armed resistance.

Sorry to the moderator, I read your post after I answered.

 

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

What this should tell any thinking person is the cause of rampant gun violence isn't the prevalence of guns.

It's the failure of a society to hold strong cultural norms regarding ethical behavior.

This is a good point. Unfortunately, as society welcomes more and more cultures and accepts more and more differences, it is nearly impossible to have a "cultural norm." What we consider "ethical behavior" often depends on our culture, our background, our experiences, and our religion. Much of the Western World has become so diverse that there may be no set cultural norm any longer. It is a price we pay for integration. There are many benefits to diversity, but there are also many benefits to having a set of shared cultural norms. We really can't have both.

Of course, most cultures would agree that a massacre of a large group of humans is unethical, but there are certainly groups of those who justify such a thing in the name of religion, politics, social justice, self-preservation, or whatever else they come up with.

I did read an article that said American gun violence is not due primarily to the number of guns we have in the country. The article claims gun violence is due to American individualism. There are actually quite a few articles out there with this premise. American individualism is a big reason The United States is so powerful and wealthy. Individualism can be a great thing. But individualism may indeed be a leading cause in violence like this. Everything in life has a benefit and a cost.

 

[Magpie]

The officer asked so HE could use the gun to protect the people in the bar. What does that have to do with John Rich being trustworthy?

How did the officer know John Rich had a gun?

Because he no doubt brought it to the officer's attention, either by pulling it out or by mentioning it verbally.

Why was this interaction cordial and helpful?

Because the officer didn't see an armed John Rich as a threat.

 

[lifesavacation]

This is a good point. Unfortunately, as society welcomes more and more cultures and accepts more and more differences, it is nearly impossible to have a "cultural norm." What we think consider "ethical behavior" often depends on our culture, our background, our experiences, and our religion. Much of the Western World has become so diverse that there may be no set cultural norm any longer. It is a price we pay for integration. There are many benefits to diversity, but there are also many benefits to having a set of shared cultural norms. We really can't have both.

Of course, most cultures would agree that a massacre of a large group of humans is unethical, but there are certainly groups of those who justify such a thing in the name of religion, politics, social justice, self-preservation, or whatever else they come up with.

I did read an article that said American gun violence is not due primarily to the number of guns we have in the country. The article claims gun violence is due to American individualism. There are actually quite a few articles out there with this premise. American individualism is a big reason The United States is so powerful and wealthy. Individualism can be a great thing. But individualism may indeed be a leading cause in violence like this. Everything in life has a benefit and a cost.

I think there's also a mental health component as well. And maybe that tracks back to individualism--that even the mentally unwell can access firearms because it's so very difficult to take away rights in our country.

 

[Magpie]

I agree with you about it depending on who owns the gun. But at that concert there apparently were at least two bands playing who were gun owners (John Rich and the previously mentioned band who said their guns would have been useless in this situation), and both of those gun owners thought rationally about whether or not to use their guns.

I don't know why people have gun fetishes, must be something within our nature. But the backhoe comparison doesn't really work because there are most certainly farm shows with this type of equipment.

If only gun shows were as unsexy as farm shows. Gun shows would only ever be attended by professional law enforcement and military sorts, and everyone else would consider them a big ol' yawn.

I don't think the gun fetish is in our nature.

I've been thinking about this a lot today. What makes Canada and the US so different? We're similar in many ways. We've had our own (much smaller) mass shootings. We have a lot of gun owners. But our gun crime rates are significantly less.

I lived in the US until I was nine. Gun toys were banned in my home. Like any other American child, I turned every stick into a gun. And I promised myself that I'd never forbid my children from playing with toy guns. It was fun, and it seemed natural.

My children were born in Canada, in an urban area. They turned every stick into a sword. They never showed any interest in playing with toy guns, and neither did their friends. The only time I ever saw them play at having guns, was immediately after I showed them some old original Battlestar Galactica episodes. But shooting imaginary bullets was apparently not as fun as beating each other with sticks. The whole "do we allow toy guns" debate, was never a debate in my home, or any other family's that I knew.

I don't know of anyone in my city who keeps a gun in their home, though I know many who have guns at clubs, where they use them for target shooting and sports. In rural Canada, many people have long guns in their homes for hunting or protection from wild animals. I know some of those people, too.

Guns are largely viewed as tools, kept for practical purpose.

It's not nature. It's nurture. And, as such, it can be changed!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Re the girlfriend. I wonder if some are saying she's "not a suspect" just so she goes back to her normal routine in order to find out more about her. I watched an investigative expert on the news tonight who said that this investigation is nowhere near complete; in fact, it's just getting started. It's hard to believe there are people here who are already completely certain she's innocent. Aren't we always told not to jump to conclusions?

 

[RedAngie]

Re the girlfriend. I wonder if some are saying she's "not a suspect" just so she goes back to her normal routine in order to find out more about her. I watched an investigative expert on the news tonight who said that this investigation is nowhere near complete; in fact, it's just getting started. It's hard to believe there are people here who are already completely certain she's innocent. Aren't we always told not to jump to conclusions?

If the girlfriend has any sense, she shouldn't agree to fly back to the U.S. for questioning. Let the authorities fly to the Philippines to interview her if they want. Since she carries an Australian passport, it might be wise to have Australian diplomats present too.

As for jumping to conclusions, too many (including some here) have already convicted her.

 

[Jennasis]

Crud...here come the conspiracy theories. Had a heated battle on FB show up between two friends, one of whom insists there was a second shooter.

 

[robinb]

I just watched footage from officer worn cameras and it was terrifying. Thank goodness they were there to help people move away from danger.

 

[moon]

I completely respect all opinions for sure but what does pitting country against country and all the talk of "my country does better than yours" actually help in this thread? Now I totally get having one's own thread if you wish on gun control it just feels like...

No one of course has to listen to anyone just putting out my opinion here.

I don't see it that way, and I don't think anyone was trying to do that.

I think it's wise to analyze what other countries who have low gun deaths have done to accomplish this, because something must be done. This is not acceptable, or normal. It has gone horribly horribly wrong and we can't...we shouldn't let it keep happening.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

If the girlfriend has any sense, she shouldn't agree to fly back to the U.S. for questioning. Let the authorities fly to the Philippines to interview her if they want. Since she carries an Australian passport, it might be wise to have Australian diplomats present too.

As for jumping to conclusions, too many (including some here) have already convicted her.

And just as many others have her totally innocent, lol.

It sounds to me like there is still a lot they don't know.

 

[Magpie]

And just as many others have her totally innocent, lol.

It sounds to me like there is still a lot they don't know.

This is very true. I, personally, don't see any reason to suspect her of any involvement. But, law enforcement officials would be negligent if they didn't interview her, just as they would be negligent if they didn't interview the shooter's mother and brother and business partners and anyone else he might be close to. They need to establish for certain that he was the "lone wolf" he appears to have been. That's just doing their job.

She, on the other hand, has every reason not to want to set foot in the US. She's a target, and there are a lot of people who would like to pin this on her for a lot of different reasons. So, if they want to talk to her in person, they're just going to have to fly out to wherever she is. Otherwise, they'll have to settle for phone or Skype interviews.

 

[wenrob]

Re the girlfriend. I wonder if some are saying she's "not a suspect" just so she goes back to her normal routine in order to find out more about her. I watched an investigative expert on the news tonight who said that this investigation is nowhere near complete; in fact, it's just getting started. It's hard to believe there are people here who are already completely certain she's innocent. Aren't we always told not to jump to conclusions?

The Sheriff describes her as a “person of interest.” The way he talked today sounded like they were interested in her for the information she might be able to provide. I don’t really have a solid opinion on her but I lean toward innocent because it sounds like she is cooperating with them. She’s out of the country but is willingly speaking to them. Would you do that if you were guilty of something? I sure wouldn’t.

 

[HarperLeigh]

And just as many others have her totally innocent, lol.

It sounds to me like there is still a lot they don't know.

Many others aren't jumping to conclusions about her involvement.

 

[wonder whisper]

This video shows the concert a little less than an hour before the shooting rampage started. Yes, it starts with some commentary by a broadcaster (which at one point leans in the direction of being a wee bit partisan), but please don't let that deter you from seeing what follows, which is hauntingly bittersweet to watch given what happened later.