Sitting with kids on the plane

[Disneyadore]

Another one? It does seem to be happening more and more (and as someone pointed out earlier--these cases inevitably involve accompanied children--or else full grown adults). I have never been on a lfight which had to return to the gate becuase of a child's behaviour. I have twice been "treated" to the spectacle of watching out of control drunks led off by the police though (something about flying out of Puerto Vallarta seems to bring out the worst in party types--my parents live near there so I fly that rout often).

My first flight ever I was seated between a sleeping nun and a drunk Asian man.
I was terrified for then hours and my bladder was hurting.
I made myself and my family a promise: Never ever again. We pay for bulkhead and no one will get us out of them seats.

 

[NHdisneylover]

My first flight ever I was seated between a sleeping nun and a drunk Asian man.
I was terrified for then hours and my bladder was hurting.
I made myself and my family a promise: Never ever again. We pay for bulkhead and no one will get us out of them seats.

great image!

 

[bavaria]

I have posted before about a flight I ended up taking once in India on the SW airlines of India. It was during a monsoon and all flights were being diverted; I had no seat assignment and was about the only non-local on the flight. A family was seated all around me; the tweens were playing cards and chatting.

I offered to move seats so that they could sit side by side and play. The entire family was absolutely mortified. They were obviously very upset that they had put a stranger in such an awkward position that I would offer to move (and the kids weren't bothering me, they were very nice)

It is a completly different mindset - here it seems to be 'others must make way for me' and there it is 'I won't put others in a position of having to move'. I experience that quite often in Asia; it is considered rude to place a burden on a person, and asking them to move is putting them in the awkward situation where they have almost no choice but to say 'yes', or run the risk of being viewed as rude (or finding themselves the subject of a thread on the DIS!)

 

[bavaria]

by the way, I like the 'night shift' when only the foreigners are posting and talking amongst themselves.

 

[NHdisneylover]

bavaria--I love taht story. I never saw the original post so thanks for sharing I have learned recently that I can identify the "foriegners" as those who also post in what I consider the morning hours

 

[Disneyadore]

Ehhhhhhh foreigners?
Ein schöner Gruß aus Duisburg. at this moment.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Ehhhhhhh foreigners?
Ein schöner Gruß aus Duisburg. at this moment.

Guten Morgen! Meine Deutsch ist nach nicht so gut aber ich probiere See, I really am the foriegner

I don't think you are too far from me! I am thinking 2-3 hours? maybe some day we can meet for coffee One of these days we have to get DS to the sealife in Oberhausen for the otters (we don't have otters in Speyer and he is weirdly obsessed with needing to see otters again)--I think that is kind of in your neck of the woods.

 

[Disneyadore]

Guten Morgen! Meine Deutsch ist nach nicht so gut aber ich probiere See, I really am the foriegner

I don't think you are too far from me! I am thinking 2-3 hours? maybe some day we can meet for coffee One of these days we have to get DS to the sealife in Oberhausen for the otters (we don't have otters in Speyer and he is weirdly obsessed with needing to see otters again)--I think that is kind of in your neck of the woods.

O I did see the Sealife but just from the channel .It looks good.
O and take a side trip to the Oberhausen Centro. You got to spill some Euro's there.
BTW I'm no German either. Just plain Dutch but I keep that a secret because Going Dutch and Dutch treat is something we really dislike.

 

[DISNEYFOS]

It seems SWA has found a solution for this problem.

October 30, 2009, 3:56 pm
A Crying Child Kicked Off a Plane




A cranky noisy two-year-old. An airplane. An ending that sounds like it could have been avoided if the mother and flight attendants had talked to each other.

The Oakland Tribune is reporting that a Southwest Airlines crew ordered Pamela Root and her young son off a flight from Amarillo back home to San Jose this week, because the boy was screaming “Go! Plane! Go!”

“I want Daddy!” repeatedly while the jet waited in line for takeoff. Root told reporter Lisa Fernandez that she had seen Adam like this before. Her strategy was to wait to feed him until after the plane took off, she says, which made him a little cranky for a short while, but insured that he would soon calm down and take a nap.

The plane returned to the gate for what the pilot described as “a passenger issue” which was the first Root knew she and her son were being forced to deplane. As she describes it, the conversation with the attendant who escorted her off went something like this:

“We just can’t tolerate that for two hours.”
“He’ll be fine once we take off.”
“We’ve heard that before.”

Southwest told Fernandez they were looking into the matter. Root flew home the next day, and fed Adam before take-off.

Link: http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/30/a-crying-child-kicked-off-a-plane/

Okay guys just for giggles suppose this mother and child were forced to be seperated on the plane. The 2 year old not in reach of the mother.

She actually would be required to wait to feed the child until after take off because she wouldn't have been able to leave her seat after they shut the cabin. Even if she had wanted to calm down this child she would of been too far away.

comments?

 

[NHdisneylover]

Okay guys just for giggles suppose this mother and child were forced to be seperated on the plane. The 2 year old not in reach of the mother.

She actually would be required to wait to feed the child until after take off because she wouldn't have been able to leave her seat after they shut the cabin. Even if she had wanted to calm down this child she would of been too far away.

comments?

Feed the child before boarding We always get a snack once we are through security (children never behave as well when they are hungry). Or, perhaps ring the call button and politely ask the FA if she would please hand this snack to your child (something you presumably have in your bag under the seat). Explain you know it is not her job, but you hate to subject the entire plane to your child's fussiness, etc. (BTW with a younger 2 year old I would have deplaned and asked for another lfight if it were not poassible for me to sit with my child).

 

[DISNEYFOS]

Ok..so obviously if your child is hungry feed them before. I'm talking the child that is yelling for daddy, or wants a cup of milk right at that exact moment is screaming for it.

If the mother and child are going to get kicked off the plane for it (i.e. a disruptive child) wouldn't you say its a REQUIREMENT for the mother to sit with the child to calm them down and ensure they don't scream.

 

[bavaria]

Kids cry on planes all the time and are not kicked off. There is far more to this story; an aircraft doesn't return to the gate unless there is a very significant reason due to the costs and logistics involved.

Just another person who failed to take responsibility for her actions and is blaming everyone and demanding compensation.

 

[DISNEYFOS]

Kids cry on planes all the time and are not kicked off. There is far more to this story; an aircraft doesn't return to the gate unless there is a very significant reason due to the costs and logistics involved.

Just another person who failed to take responsibility for her actions and is blaming everyone and demanding compensation.

Or a toddler having a tantrum. Unless we were on the plane, there is really no way to say exactly what the circumstances were.

My POINT is if its a requirement to keep children under control then its a requirement to have the responsible adult (i.e. their caregiver) next to them.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Ok..so obviously if your child is hungry feed them before. I'm talking the child that is yelling for daddy, or wants a cup of milk right at that exact moment is screaming for it.

If the mother and child are going to get kicked off the plane for it (i.e. a disruptive child) wouldn't you say its a REQUIREMENT for the mother to sit with the child to calm them down and ensure they don't scream.

To be kicked off of the plane the child must have been kicking up one heck of a fuss--not just a bit of whining and crying. A bit of whining and crying happens ALL THE TIME and is dealt with much less drastically. Every single on of these cases that hits the news starts off with a "poor mommy" approach with the kid not having been so bad, etc and it eventually comes out that the child was pretty much totally out of control and parents either wouldn't or couldn't contain the behaviour.

Well, I am about to make a lot of enimies here I think IF you do everything in your power to be able to sit with your child (meaning pay for seats together as soon as you book, not booking a flight last minute when you can see the seats together are already gone, asking people POLITELY if they mind trading and offering to buy them a drink or a sandwhich or whatnot if they will, etc.) AND you started out with "reserved" seats together then you have every right to deplane and have the airline book you on anothr fligth at no cost to you if weather or otehr issues have caused you to be seated apart from your child. If you are not willing to deplane when you cannot sit with your child, then your child needs to behave. If he or she cannot--that is not the airlines fault. I know all kids have those days, and I feel for you if yours does it on a flight, I really do, but if your child cannot be trusted to behave for a few hours on a plane without you right there then you need to be willing to do wahtever it takes (including taking a later or more expensive flight) to be there or you need to choose a different way to travel.

 

[scuba]

I'm still here NHdisneylover, mass transit? seriously does it REALLY matter what I think? almost everything i've said has been ripped apart in some form or fashion, But hey i'm a big boy, I can handle it, I seen far worse last night in my ER.

18 was just a number, heck any kid 6 months or older can fly alone....I just don't care anymore, but 18 was just a number I picked, you have to be 18 to vote, you have to be 18 to pick up a gun and fight for our country, 18 to make medical decisions......I for one feel that air travel is a huge deal, bigger than voting, maybe bigger than drinking? maybe bigger than driving. Yet we allow a 5 year old to fly alone. Flying is certainly not routine, take an airbus load it with jet fuel, fly it to 35,000 feet, with thousands of moving parts that for whatever reason could go wrong at anytime. Alarmist? perhaps, but hopefully everyone out there in message board land can agree that there is a risk in getting on a plane, although small right? so when each one of you place an unattended child on a plane you assume that risk....I don't advocate the practice therefore I am eliminating a risk for my child...my choice, not yours...mine, like it's your choice to put your kid on said plane. I hope and pray I am never faced with that decision to put a kid on a plane alone or not....I commend everyone's courage for doing so, despite feeling nervous. I would suspect that any parent saying they were not nervous is lying. I know, someone is typing already that there is a risk just leaving your door. There is going to be a risk driving my car, the kids getting into the bus....well i'm in my car more, and kids ride buses more than flying in a plane. there are more vehicles on the road more people on the road than folks in planes....of course i'm more likely to die in my car.

Our DD2 has been on 2 cruises already, DD4 has been on 3. I get from folks all the time that they are afraid of taking kids that age on a cruise, Our eldest was at a dive convention just 1 week after she was born...years ago doctors told you to stay away from crowds for weeks. DD4 has been to Crystal River 2 times and been in the water with wild manatees. DD4 has been to the bottom of our pool on scuba gear, DD2 can pull herself from a pool already, DD4 had her first mite ice hockey practice............I don't consider my children sheltered in anyway, and when they tell me they cannot climb a tree and want help I tell them they can do it. I think it is great that all of you have children that you can trust alone on a plane, all of you have indicated that your plane has been held up for various reasons by adults yet we expect our children to behave like adults while on planes alone? I want my child to behave like a 4 year old, more concerned about the next princess DVD i'm going to pull out and Not her next connection...I know I know, the attendants see to that...blah, blah, Blah, Continental put a couple of kids on the wrong plane in June, and just a week ago, a story has risen of possible molestation with a minor passesnger on a plane. No I don't have a link....It wasn't that hard to find........I don't even trust the airlines to see to it my baggage gets to the right place, i'm not going to entrust my children to them.

Thats my $.02 cents, you may pick it apart if you wish, demand a link, call me a yodle...err yokle, put words in my mouth...whatever

 

[NHdisneylover]

Or a toddler having a tantrum. Unless we were on the plane, there is really no way to say exactly what the circumstances were.

My POINT is if its a requirement to keep children under control then its a requirement to have the responsible adult (i.e. their caregiver) next to them.

I disagree. The burden is on the parent not to put the child in a situation she or he cannot handle.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I'm still here NHdisneylover, mass transit? seriously does it REALLY matter what I think? almost everything i've said has been ripped apart in some form or fashion, But hey i'm a big boy, I can handle it, I seen far worse last night in my ER.

18 was just a number, heck any kid 6 months or older can fly alone....I just don't care anymore, but 18 was just a number I picked, you have to be 18 to vote, you have to be 18 to pick up a gun and fight for our country, 18 to make medical decisions......I for one feel that air travel is a huge deal, bigger than voting, maybe bigger than drinking? maybe bigger than driving. Yet we allow a 5 year old to fly alone. Flying is certainly not routine, take an airbus load it with jet fuel, fly it to 35,000 feet, with thousands of moving parts that for whatever reason could go wrong at anytime. Alarmist? perhaps, but hopefully everyone out there in message board land can agree that there is a risk in getting on a plane, although small right? so when each one of you place an unattended child on a plane you assume that risk....I don't advocate the practice therefore I am eliminating a risk for my child...my choice, not yours...mine, like it's your choice to put your kid on said plane. I hope and pray I am never faced with that decision to put a kid on a plane alone or not....I commend everyone's courage for doing so, despite feeling nervous. I would suspect that any parent saying they were not nervous is lying. I know, someone is typing already that there is a risk just leaving your door. There is going to be a risk driving my car, the kids getting into the bus....well i'm in my car more, and kids ride buses more than flying in a plane. there are more vehicles on the road more people on the road than folks in planes....of course i'm more likely to die in my car.

Our DD2 has been on 2 cruises already, DD4 has been on 3. I get from folks all the time that they are afraid of taking kids that age on a cruise, Our eldest was at a dive convention just 1 week after she was born...years ago doctors told you to stay away from crowds for weeks. DD4 has been to Crystal River 2 times and been in the water with wild manatees. DD4 has been to the bottom of our pool on scuba gear, DD2 can pull herself from a pool already, DD4 had her first mite ice hockey practice............I don't consider my children sheltered in anyway, and when they tell me they cannot climb a tree and want help I tell them they can do it. I think it is great that all of you have children that you can trust alone on a plane, all of you have indicated that your plane has been held up for various reasons by adults yet we expect our children to behave like adults while on planes alone? I want my child to behave like a 4 year old, more concerned about the next princess DVD i'm going to pull out and Not her next connection...I know I know, the attendants see to that...blah, blah, Blah, Continental put a couple of kids on the wrong plane in June, and just a week ago, a story has risen of possible molestation with a minor passesnger on a plane. No I don't have a link....It wasn't that hard to find........I don't even trust the airlines to see to it my baggage gets to the right place, i'm not going to entrust my children to them.

Thats my $.02 cents, you may pick it apart if you wish, demand a link, call me a yodle...err yokle, put words in my mouth...whatever

sorry I upset you scuba--I am just really curious. I have never before encoutnered someone who thinks it should be illegal for children under 18 (or any otehr arbitrary age old enough to do a decent number of things alone) to fly unaccompanied. I absolutely have no issue with YOU choosing not to place your child alone on a flight. I do have an issue with you wanting to prevent ME from doing the same I have to say, I am glad you do not make the rules

 

[mjkacmom]

I'm still here NHdisneylover, mass transit? seriously does it REALLY matter what I think? almost everything i've said has been ripped apart in some form or fashion, But hey i'm a big boy, I can handle it, I seen far worse last night in my ER.

18 was just a number, heck any kid 6 months or older can fly alone....I just don't care anymore, but 18 was just a number I picked, you have to be 18 to vote, you have to be 18 to pick up a gun and fight for our country, 18 to make medical decisions......I for one feel that air travel is a huge deal, bigger than voting, maybe bigger than drinking? maybe bigger than driving. Yet we allow a 5 year old to fly alone. Flying is certainly not routine, take an airbus load it with jet fuel, fly it to 35,000 feet, with thousands of moving parts that for whatever reason could go wrong at anytime. Alarmist? perhaps, but hopefully everyone out there in message board land can agree that there is a risk in getting on a plane, although small right? so when each one of you place an unattended child on a plane you assume that risk....I don't advocate the practice therefore I am eliminating a risk for my child...my choice, not yours...mine, like it's your choice to put your kid on said plane. I hope and pray I am never faced with that decision to put a kid on a plane alone or not....I commend everyone's courage for doing so, despite feeling nervous. I would suspect that any parent saying they were not nervous is lying. I know, someone is typing already that there is a risk just leaving your door. There is going to be a risk driving my car, the kids getting into the bus....well i'm in my car more, and kids ride buses more than flying in a plane. there are more vehicles on the road more people on the road than folks in planes....of course i'm more likely to die in my car.

Our DD2 has been on 2 cruises already, DD4 has been on 3. I get from folks all the time that they are afraid of taking kids that age on a cruise, Our eldest was at a dive convention just 1 week after she was born...years ago doctors told you to stay away from crowds for weeks. DD4 has been to Crystal River 2 times and been in the water with wild manatees. DD4 has been to the bottom of our pool on scuba gear, DD2 can pull herself from a pool already, DD4 had her first mite ice hockey practice............I don't consider my children sheltered in anyway, and when they tell me they cannot climb a tree and want help I tell them they can do it. I think it is great that all of you have children that you can trust alone on a plane, all of you have indicated that your plane has been held up for various reasons by adults yet we expect our children to behave like adults while on planes alone? I want my child to behave like a 4 year old, more concerned about the next princess DVD i'm going to pull out and Not her next connection...I know I know, the attendants see to that...blah, blah, Blah, Continental put a couple of kids on the wrong plane in June, and just a week ago, a story has risen of possible molestation with a minor passesnger on a plane. No I don't have a link....It wasn't that hard to find........I don't even trust the airlines to see to it my baggage gets to the right place, i'm not going to entrust my children to them.

Thats my $.02 cents, you may pick it apart if you wish, demand a link, call me a yodle...err yokle, put words in my mouth...whatever

I think you have an irrational fear of flying. Period. Your 4 year old is much more likely to get injured playing mite hockey than in an airplane (not that a 4 year old is allowed to fly without a parent - and ds11 played mite hockey at 4, and did fine). My dd13 went on an airplane for the first time at the age of 11. She was capable of sitting for 2 hours, and then walk off the plane. She knew where the restroom was if she needed it. She was way more likely to get injured walking to school than flying alone. I don't think that a child is in any more danger on a plane than in any other public place. And your child is way more likely to be molested on a playdate than on an airplane - most cases it's a friend or family member. Your children are younger than mine, but when they are older, they will be in the care of others, without you around. Therefore, it is your responsibility to teach them about appropriate and inappropriate adult behave, strangers and those we know.

 

[crashbb]

I'm honestly shocked that you find flying on an airplane a "huge deal" and bigger than voting, drinking and (possibly driving). I'd agree that flying the plane (i.e. being the pilot) is a big deal, but I would hope that most people put more thought into who they vote for than into getting on a plane.

In the vast majority of my flights, I get on the plane, sit down, get off the plane when I get to my destination. Since even UMs can be accompanied right to the plane (and met right off of the plane), that is all that they are doing alone.

 

[jodifla]

Small children or children with disabilities should sit with their parents. Period. It's a safety issue. I can't think of any other venue where parents and children are forced apart.

And that adults will go on and on about how their "rights" supercede that of a 2, 3, 4, or even 7 year old is THE most entitled thing I continually read on the DISboards.

As is pointed out over and over, you don't get rights to a particular seat on a plane. Guess what. That includes ADULTS! Even frequent fliers. That being said, the youngest and most vulnerable among us should sit with their caregivers, for everyone's sake.