Shring on Dining Plan

[bicker]

What good are rules if someone can keep changing them after you are already playing the game?

This is a critical aspect of service contracts. What good are terms and conditions if they include one side being able to change them unilaterally?

First, there is a basic service specification requirement: The basic aspect of the service cannot be changed unilaterally. In the case of the Dining Plan, they must provide food, and provide sufficient food so that a reasonable person would agree it constitutes the equivalent of a couple of meals per night of the reservation (including one table service meal) and a snack, though it may require selection of specific options rather than others to get this (i.e., if you choose a 2TS, you don't get a table service meal every night).

Second, there is a basic requirement for usability: They cannot sell you a Dining Plan for your vacation in Orlando, and then say that the meals can only be redeemed in Anaheim, by people over 6' 2".

Beyond that, there are limitations on how they can change the program, unilaterally, without notice. What keeps this under control is the company's reputation for serving customers without it being a specific requirement. Disney has a long history of providing service to folks who buy their packages in a manner a reasonable person would consider appropriate and amenable. That's what we rely on when we purchase the Dining Plan.

I must be missing something. How is the third scenario getting off "cheap" or trying to make the DDP "more of a deal"?

Because there is no way for Disney to ensure that those guests pay for enough OOP to make up for the extra meals they get from sharing the meals they share.

 

[bicker]

But as portion size decreases, will the prices decrease, too? (Answer: Doubtful) I'm all for correct portion sizes but then the restaurants shouldn't make the entrees the same price, ya know?

Keep in mind, though, that the cost of food ingredients is a small percentage of the cost of running a restaurant. These restaurants seem to be reducing portion sizes because of and response to patrons violating the pricing model (i.e., sharing). So reducing portion sizes seems to be undertaken just to make the current pricing valid.

Also keep in mind that to a small extent, reducing portions while keeping prices the same constitutes a price increase with no cash-impact on guests. Many guests would prefer prices go up that way, rather than the actual menu price going up. A lot of us (and indeed most of should) leave some food left-over at the end of each meal.

I'd rather pay $10-15 for a TRUE one serving meal than pay $20 for a larger portion.

Again, reducing portion sizes seems to be undertaken just to make the current pricing valid. However, assuming that that's not the case, a $15 portion of a $20 meal would be a 1/3 portion. A $10 portion of a $20 meal would be less than nothing (i.e., an empty plate, with the restaurant getting cheated in the deal ). In case anyone's interested... a half-portion of a $20 meal would cost $16.20.

 

[Marshay]

Hey, Bicker -- Thanks for your BUSINESS mind...It does offer an alternative thought albeit, one I do not support. But that's the beauty of having diverse opinions and expressing them on DIS.

Since I have a family (and hope to add more), I will always have to look at issues from a family perspective, and not a business one. Eating out is a family matter to me and I will cater to those restaurants that meet my needs (whether it is sharing, prices, portions, etc).

 

[bicker]

Heck! I don't "support" my "BUSINESS mind". I wish more than anything that none of this reality stuff was true!

However, I think it better to go into it with realistic expectations, and perhaps be delighted, rather than going into it with unrealistic expectations, and inevitably be disappointed.

 

[Katiebell]

Disney has a long history of providing service to folks who buy their packages in a manner a reasonable person would consider appropriate and amenable. That's what we rely on when we purchase the Dining Plan.

Absolutely It's because Disney has a sterling reputation for being fair and providing excellent customer service. If was about to sign a contract with a company I knew nothing about and saw the phrase "terms and conditions subject to change without notice", I would walk away. Even if I don't agree with all of their business decisions, I trust Disney to be fair and reasonable and provide the service they are offering.

Because there is no way for Disney to ensure that those guests pay for enough OOP to make up for the extra meals they get from sharing the meals they share.

There is no way for Disney -- or any restaurant -- to ensure how much anyone sitting at a table in any of their restaurants is going to order. An OOP customer could order the most expensive items on the menu, or order a small salad and a glass of water, or dessert and coffee.

Someone on this thread I believe gave an example of a family of five splitting 2 TS meals. Pretty extreme example but we'll go with that. Unless three of those family members are under the age of 5, 2 meals will probably not satisfy that many people. So the patrons will either leave very hungry, or they will order more items from the menu. Remember in the response I got from Disney, they stated that although 2 people could not share 1 TS meal, one person could order using the TS credit and the other person could pay OOP. They didn't specify any dollar amount or minimum the other guest must pay.

Realistically, I can see a scenario like this: mom (or dad) stayed in the room one night with a kid who wasn't feeling well, and the other parent kept the ADR for dinner with the other two kids -- we'll assume all the kids are 10 and over so it's all adult credits. So on the last day, there are 2 TS credits left. What is this family supposed to do with those credits? Must they forfeit them because they don't have one credit for every member of their party? Would only 2 family members be allowed to be seated while the others have to wait outside, or would the other 3 be required to make a minimum order OOP in order to sit with their party? At a buffet or character meal, the answer is obviously "yes", but what about a regular TS restaurant? Would the server have to watch the table closely to enforce that only 2 party members consumed the food?

 

[bicker]

There is no way for Disney -- or any restaurant -- to ensure how much anyone sitting at a table in any of their restaurants is going to order.

Of course, but Disney need to go with the averages, and factor in what leverage they have and don't have, with regard to the offers they make, and the terms and conditions of those offers.

 

[grrlinthemoon]

I just saw this thread, and only read the first couple of posts. I thought I would put my two cents in since we just returned from the World on March 14th (sigh).

Sharing is absolutely ok on the dining plan, and not discouraged at all. There were four of us, all adults for meal purposes, and we were there for 7 nights, so we were alloted 28 of each credit. We shared both counter service and table service meals so that we could actually fit in an "extra" TS our last day, the character breakfast at Cape May Cafe, without having to pay for anything OOP. For example, when we ate at Spoodles, we used 3 TS credits. My daughter and I split an appetizer and entree; we were eating at 8pm, and I was not very hungry, so this was the best option for us. The desserts are also big enough and quite rich, so 4 people sharing 3 desserts works out fine.

By doing this for any non-buffet or family-style meals, we actually ate at more restaurants, tried a greater variety of dishes over the course of the trip, and wasted less food. All of this adds up to a greater $ value, as well. And, we also shared some counter service meals as well (rotisserie chicken at Tusker House, fish and chicken basket at Columbia Harbour House--have you seen how much food is on those plates?)

Simply put, for my family of two adults and two voracious teenagers, we still had enough food to feel satisfied, and I can't imagine not doing it this way.

Michelle

 

[PrincessTrisha]

The only thing that bugs me a bit is the implication that people who choose to purchase the DDP are dumb for doing so, it's a rip-off, or they are cheap and tacky and trying to get something for nothing if they ask about sharing meals to avoid overeating or waste, or even to save credits for a special meal or show. I've seen those types of comments on this and other threads, and I don't believe they are fair.

I agree 100% with this comment.

 

[Pumbaa_]

Thank you MIchelle for the real scoop!

 

[jodifla]

For me, I call them like I see them.

There are truths, as far as I'm concerned:

1. The DDP is bringing down the quality of Disney Dining overall. That affects ME, so I am TICKED!

2. People obsess over how to get a good deal with the DDP, when, IF YOU EAT A TS A DAY appetizer, entree, and dessert, it's already a good deal. No need to gin the system to make it an even better deal.

3. The DDP is NOT A GOOD DEAL from a pure cost standpoint. I can eat more cheaply without it easily. Of course, I don't want to eat restaurant food 3 times a day....I just got back from a 48 hour trip, and that was too much restaurant food. No way would I do it for 5 or 7 or 10 days.

4. All the focus on the DDP has taken away from the FOOD! Just look at all the threads...it's endless DDP chatter, and very little about what's good and fun to eat at Disney!

5. I'm with the earlier poster....I NEVER knew people shared whole meals as a way of getting out of ordering something for themselves. I've never seen it done in any restaurant between two adults. I have friends who eat half their meal, then switch, so they can try new things. But I don't think Disney ever intended you to bring 4 people to dinner and order two meals on the DDP. THEY MEANT FOR YOU TO PAY OOP if you are trying to squirrel away credits for signature meals.

 

[pilferk]

5. I'm with the earlier poster....I NEVER knew people shared whole meals as a way of getting out of ordering something for themselves. I've never seen it done in any restaurant between two adults. I have friends who eat half their meal, then switch, so they can try new things. But I don't think Disney ever intended you to bring 4 people to dinner and order two meals on the DDP. THEY MEANT FOR YOU TO PAY OOP if you are trying to squirrel away credits for signature meals.

Hmmm, odd...I see people do it all the time. And not at Disney, in order to "bilk" the system, but out in the rest of the "world". I'm not sure what they're objective is (save money or just not waste food), but I don't think it's all THAT uncommon.

I've seen couples share apps, entree', and desert (so ordering one meal). It's especially common at a pretty well known local BBQ place because the portions are HUGE. I've seen mom and dad order meals and share with the kids. And I'm not sure they're doing it to "get out of ordering something for themselves".

 

[jodifla]

Hmmm, odd...I see people do it all the time. And not at Disney, in order to "bilk" the system, but out in the rest of the "world". I'm not sure what they're objective is (save money or just not waste food), but I don't think it's all THAT uncommon.

I've seen couples share apps, entree', and desert (so ordering one meal). It's especially common at a pretty well known local BBQ place because the portions are HUGE. I've seen mom and dad order meals and share with the kids. And I'm not sure they're doing it to "get out of ordering something for themselves".

Appetizers at a sports bar? Yeah.

Entree at a fine dining establishment? No way. I think you'd be laughed out of the better restaurants.

 

[pilferk]

Appetizers at a sports bar? Yeah.

Entree at a fine dining establishment? No way. I think you'd be laughed out of the better restaurants.

I've eaten all over this fine country, in all manner of places from the top of the spectrum to the bottom.

Entree at anything up to a certain level....I agree. But many of Disney's eateries are well below that level, IMHO. I don't know that I'd qualify a good portion of Disney's restaurants as "fine dining establishments". Probably only those that require 2 TS credits....

Again, I don't think it's as uncommon as some people suggest it is, out in "the real world". I've seen plate sharing charges at some places, and still have seen sharing. I'm not surprised people don't notice...I mean, really, I don't expect many people are watching other people's dining habits.

 

[jodifla]

I've eaten all over this fine country, in all manner of places from the top of the spectrum to the bottom.

Entree at anything up to a certain level....I agree. But many of Disney's eateries are well below that level, IMHO. I don't know that I'd qualify a good portion of Disney's restaurants as "fine dining establishments". Probably only those that require 2 TS credits....

Again, I don't think it's as uncommon as some people suggest it is, out in "the real world". I've seen plate sharing charges at some places, and still have seen sharing. I'm not surprised people don't notice...I mean, really, I don't expect many people are watching other people's dining habits.

I agree. But when you ask them to split it in the back and bring it out on separate plates....well, that's way over the top in my book. And most servers WILL NOTICE when one party member doesn't order anything.

 

[pilferk]

I agree. But when you ask them to split it in the back and bring it out on separate plates....well, that's way over the top in my book. And most servers WILL NOTICE when one party member doesn't order anything.

I'll agree...I've seldom seen the entree split in the actual kitchen. Most times I've seen it done those sharing just ask for a 2nd plate, or use their app plate to do the splitting at the table.

But, if there is a "plate sharing charge", THEN I have seen the entree split before it even comes to the table. I'd think that's the main difference between those that DO charge a "sharing fee", and those that don't.

 

[Cookie54]

Ok, I am jumping in. 4 years ago, I think it was before DDP was invented, we were at the California Grill. There were 4 of us. We ordered appetizers to eat as entrees, several entrees, and an entrée salad to share. Without us asking, the waiter nicely asked if we would extra plates. He did not charge extra and he still came around to fill our coffee. It must have been done before if he suggested it. He was actually nice and we had a wonderful time.

 

[Cookie54]

Actually, I think they split one of the dinners in the kitchen. Much easier that trying to scrape the plate at the table.

 

[Katiebell]

For me, I call them like I see them.

There are truths, as far as I'm concerned:

1. The DDP is bringing down the quality of Disney Dining overall. That affects ME, so I am TICKED!

Yes, this is abundantly clear. Many of your posts on this topic sound quite angry.

2. People obsess over how to get a good deal with the DDP, when, IF YOU EAT A TS A DAY appetizer, entree, and dessert, it's already a good deal. No need to gin the system to make it an even better deal.

Not sure what "gin the system" means -- I am assuming something like "work the system"? Yes, I agree, the price of the DDP is a good deal for a nice TS meal of appetizer, entree, and dessert. However, not everyone wants to eat so much in one sitting. For many guests it's just too much food for one meal. They'd rather split the appetizer and the dessert. It is not an issue of "making it a better deal", it's an issue of wanting to eat a reasonable portion AND not waste half a meal.

3. The DDP is NOT A GOOD DEAL from a pure cost standpoint. I can eat more cheaply without it easily. Of course, I don't want to eat restaurant food 3 times a day....I just got back from a 48 hour trip, and that was too much restaurant food. No way would I do it for 5 or 7 or 10 days.

The DDP is not a good deal for you. You have a DVC membership, you are eligible for the DDE. You don't mind preparing some meals on your vacation, and you get tired of eating restaurant food for your whole trip. This is not the case for everyone else. Other people have different circumstances and preferences than you do. Not everyone walks in your shoes.

4. All the focus on the DDP has taken away from the FOOD! Just look at all the threads...it's endless DDP chatter, and very little about what's good and fun to eat at Disney!

Perhaps you are reading the wrong thread? This thread is entitled "Disney Dining Plan", so naturally, the posts here are all going to be about...the Disney Dining Plan. If you want to read posts about what is good and fun to eat at Disney, you might find the posts more to your interest and liking on the general "Disney Restaurants" thread, or the "Disney Dining Reviews" thread.

5. I'm with the earlier poster....I NEVER knew people shared whole meals as a way of getting out of ordering something for themselves. I've never seen it done in any restaurant between two adults. I have friends who eat half their meal, then switch, so they can try new things. But I don't think Disney ever intended you to bring 4 people to dinner and order two meals on the DDP. THEY MEANT FOR YOU TO PAY OOP if you are trying to squirrel away credits for signature meals.

You have mentioned that you have shared appetizers and desserts in restaurants. It seems -- and I may be mistaken -- that your main concern is the sharing of entrees. I would not share an entree unless it was very large and appropriate to share. For example, one of our favorite local Mexican restaurants makes wonderful fajitas, but it is served on a huge platter, and it's just way too much for one person (especially after chips and salsa and a couple of margaritas) so we always share that. But if my husband ordered say...a filet mignon, then of course we wouldn't share that. It's an appropriate portion for one adult. And we've found in many cases that the more expensive and upscale the restaurant is, the smaller the portions are anyway

Splitting an entree in the kitchen is up to the server's discretion or the restaurant's policy (they obviously would if they have a plate splitting fee). I've never asked a server to do so; sometimes they have offered to plate it separately, which was very nice, but not necessary. They may prefer to split it in the kitchen if the food would be awkward or messy to split at the table, like a large portion of a pasta or a very saucy dish. If you have never seen adults sharing a meal in a restaurant, it's probably because it was plated separately in the kitchen, or the people were discreet about splitting it at the table (as pilferk mentioned, using the appetizer plate for the second person). So you wouldn't notice that unless you were sitting there staring at other diners.

jodifla...I am truly sorry that the DDP upsets you this much, but it's been successful for Disney, has filled up restaurants at times they used to be slow, and it doesn't look like it's going away anytime soon. I'm also sorry that you feel that people who are inquiring about sharing meals are trying to get something for nothing, or trying to work the system, or whatever. I didn't imagine or presume that I could change your mind; I only hoped to provide a different perspective so maybe you could see things from another point of view. But I'm afraid I've failed at that.

If it makes you feel any better I ran the numbers and found it would be much more expensive to share a TS credit (in order to share the appetizer and dessert) and order a second entree OOP, than to just order 2 TS meals that we possibly can't finish and waste food -- so we aren't going to share 2 meals as we had originally considered doing.

 

[Dis Ohana]

For me, I call them like I see them.

There are truths, as far as I'm concerned:

1. The DDP is bringing down the quality of Disney Dining overall. That affects ME, so I am TICKED!

2. People obsess over how to get a good deal with the DDP, when, IF YOU EAT A TS A DAY appetizer, entree, and dessert, it's already a good deal. No need to gin the system to make it an even better deal.

3. The DDP is NOT A GOOD DEAL from a pure cost standpoint. I can eat more cheaply without it easily. Of course, I don't want to eat restaurant food 3 times a day....I just got back from a 48 hour trip, and that was too much restaurant food. No way would I do it for 5 or 7 or 10 days.

4. All the focus on the DDP has taken away from the FOOD! Just look at all the threads...it's endless DDP chatter, and very little about what's good and fun to eat at Disney!

5. I'm with the earlier poster....I NEVER knew people shared whole meals as a way of getting out of ordering something for themselves. I've never seen it done in any restaurant between two adults. I have friends who eat half their meal, then switch, so they can try new things. But I don't think Disney ever intended you to bring 4 people to dinner and order two meals on the DDP. THEY MEANT FOR YOU TO PAY OOP if you are trying to squirrel away credits for signature meals.

I don't think most of the people that have posted on this thread are trying to look for ways to rip Disney off, they are simply trying to find the best way to make the plan work for their family. What you see as obsessing over the DP on these boards is maybe just typical planning. People like myself are trying to see if the DP is a good value for their family, or if it's better to just pay everything OOP.
I have always shared a meal with my kids and in very nice dining establishments and it has never been a problem. I never ask for a meal to be split in the kitchen, I simply as for an extra plate or use the one the app came on. When I do this it is not to try to get more out of the restaurant than I deserve, it's because we (my DD and I) simply cannot eat an app, main dish and dessert.
Maybe I'm missing something here, I've never been to WDW or even knew about the DDP until now, but I don't get your frustration over the plan. How has the DDP affected the quality of food in the restaurants?

 

[Littlemotherhaywood]

My husband and I have split entrees at some local restaurants...even some nicer ones We usually order an additional side or two and we've always tipped the server as though two entrees were ordered. I've never had a restaurant state any disagreement with this practice. For us it's always a matter of healthy portions. As I stated before neither of our kids will finish a whole meal (and they're 3 and 7) so we usually just order one for them. We've never deliberately ordered less this way to save money. The motivation has always been less waste and better eating habits. I find it offensive that the first assumption about people is always the worst. Whatever happened to seeing the good in every situation? For that matter, what's wrong with wanting to extend your magic a little? Let's be real, the average cost per entree in a lot of Disney establishments is higher than some comparable places outside the world. You're paying for more than just food, you're paying for an experience too. If we are blessed with another trip in the future, it's unlikely that my dh and I would share an entree, but I can guarantee we probably won't order apps and dessert for both of us. Whether it's "paid" for or not, I see no point in wasting it.