Why Middle Class Can't Afford Disney

[fifthdimensiondweller]

Cars - not required. Do they make life easier? In most places - yes. But a necessity?

As I'm sure others have said, this varies greatly depending on where you live. If you live in a city or a place with public transportation- sure, it isn't needed. But our society has been built around people having cars and being able to get places with them- most jobs where I grew up were located in the city 25 miles away- we had absolutely zero public transport options. Within walking distance of my home was a hot dog stand, a family owned grocer, a small construction company, and a post office. Obviously some people would need to work elsewhere and would need a car. I see a lot on threads like this where people will say "I grew up without wifi/ cars/ smartphones/ etc." I 100% understand the point people are trying to make, but it isn't a fair comparison to compare life decades ago to life today, or to compare life in the city to life in the country, because society has changed its expectations for how far people can travel for a job. Plus, I wouldn't think moving wouldn't help a lot of people, since cost of living will likely be higher in a more urban area than in a rural one, which would negate the savings of being able to walk or use public transport.

 

[fifthdimensiondweller]

Well back in the day, a lot of towns had mom n pop grocery stories and public transit like a streetcar. My 70 year old Dad talks about getting the street car from his small Western PA town to next town. Now all those mom n pop stores are closed, plus the steel mill and glass factory where most of the town worked are also closed and there is no public transportation.

Exactly. I grew up in the same town my mom grew up in. When she was growing up, they had so much around them you really didn't need to leave the town to work and could easily walk, take public transport (which they don't have anymore due to lack of business) or carpool. They used to have factories and movie theaters, five and dimes and mom and pop grocers, car dealerships and restaurants. By the time I was growing up there, 95% of what my mom had grown up with had closed, with not much to replace it. Society had grown to expect that people could travel further for their jobs, and all of those jobs moved to the city. Now they need a car if they hope to get any sort of job. Life has changed for sure!

 

[Westcoastwild]

If you are eating at the museums, you are going to pay out the nose, but if you go a couple streets off the mall. You can find cheaper food.

Yep, that's what I mean. I don't eat at the museums or in the tourist areas because I like to find holes in the wall. The people i know who complain about DC prices are the people who go to colonial Williamsburg and eat at places like the hard rock or hotel restaurants all trip.

 

[PollyannaMom]

And, to answer the OP, what exactly are we defining as middle class?

Someone else linked this earlier in the thread:

http://money.cnn.com/infographic/economy/what-is-middle-class-anyway/index.html

 

[DawnM]

Someone else linked this earlier in the thread:

http://money.cnn.com/infographic/economy/what-is-middle-class-anyway/index.html

It keeps going up doesn't it? I remember just a few years ago people were arguing whether $250K was considered wealthy or middle class! It has moved up to 401K!

 

[DawnM]

You mean you couldn't survive without a car? Wouldn't you just move to a place where a car wasn't necessary?

Not in today's society. I work in one direction, DH works in another, and my son attends college in another.

There is no way for all of us to have jobs and schools within walking distance, that simply isn't the way things work these days.

We have 3 cars. Dh and I each have one and our middle son drives one to and from work and school (high school.)

 

[hedg12]

A trip to Disney is an expensive proposition when taken as a whole, but when you look at the expenses individually it's not that bad.

We paid $135 each for Alton Brown tickets - his show was about 2 hours. $125 for a full day at the Magic Kingdom is a bargain. (Not bagging on AB, his show was well worth it.) The hotels might be a little higher than comparable off site options, but when you factor in the free theme park parking and other benefits you get, they become very competitive. Food prices are a little high, but no higher than any of their competition. Our local zoo charges $3.00 for a bottle of water & $9.00 for a hamburger with no sides. For $12 I can eat a much better quick service meal from a bunch of different places at Disney.

When you add what you'll spend at Disney to the cost of travel and look at the price as a whole, I can understand a bit of sticker shock - it's not something most people can do on a whim. But given the quality that Disney generally provides, I'd say they're pretty reasonable.

 

[kamik86]

I agree there are areas cars are necessary or at least give you alot more options. For example I could live close enough to my job to not need a car. If I did though my mortgage for the same type of house would go up much more then my car payment and insurance and my car will be paid off soon where my house wouldn't be. Then I would be much more limited for other things. I have a niece that doesn't drive at all. She never got her licence. She is having a really hard time finding a place to live in her budget, she could easily find a place in that where I live, but then she would be too far from work.

Many people think having one car is impossible in the area and that I disagree with. Some of those couples even both work in this building and both drive in seperately... which seems odd to me to be honest. DH and I manage to share and we don't work in the same place, but its close enough and in the same direction from the house so we can.

 

[HarperLeigh]

You mean you couldn't survive without a car? Wouldn't you just move to a place where a car wasn't necessary?

There are only a few places in the United States where you don't need a car. Could I survive without a car? Sure, if I wanted to rely on someone WITH a car to supply all my necessities for daily living, like food.

 

[DawnM]

I agree there are areas cars are necessary or at least give you alot more options. For example I could live close enough to my job to not need a car. If I did though my mortgage for the same type of house would go up much more then my car payment and insurance and my car will be paid off soon where my house wouldn't be. Then I would be much more limited for other things. I have a niece that doesn't drive at all. She never got her licence. She is having a really hard time finding a place to live in her budget, she could easily find a place in that where I live, but then she would be too far from work.

Many people think having one car is impossible in the area and that I disagree with. Some of those couples even both work in this building and both drive in seperately... which seems odd to me to be honest. DH and I manage to share and we don't work in the same place, but its close enough and in the same direction from the house so we can.

My oldest doesn't drive. I don't know if he ever will. So far, it is ok. He is 19 and we take him either to where he needs to go or to the bus stop, but the nearest bus stop is 10 miles from our house.

DH and I work 20 miles from each other and not in the same direction from home. In fact, last year, I had to drive to multiple locations for my job, so I definitely needed a car. Add to that our hours are very different.

I think that most places, people are just not able to get by without a car.

We do hope in our next location that public transportation will be better and that is actually on our list of things to check into before buying.

 

[neatokimmo]

You can spend as little or as much as you want on any vacation. We went to Italy for three weeks for about $5500. We have gotten great hotels in DC, Boston, and Long Island City for $125 (yay for Hotwire). We have done on site and off site Disney trips.

For some, a vacation has to be fancy to be enjoyable. I know some people who refuse to eat a sandwich on vacation. Heck I carried sandwiches all over Italy to spend money on things that were more important to me. I think that article was picking options that not everyone does.

Our free dining trip priced out at 1900something for a week, and three or four days of tickets. You could totally go, enjoy the heck out of that trip, and not spend any more.

We ended up not booking free dining this year (next year!), but we are camping at Disney. Our site was $350ish for the week. If we added the ticket promo they have right now that is almost a grand. You could pack food, and enjoy that trip too.

 

[crisi]

It keeps going up doesn't it? I remember just a few years ago people were arguing whether $250K was considered wealthy or middle class! It has moved up to 401K!

the 401k is assets not income. If you are a two income family in your 50s and you've been setting aside money for retirement and paying down your house, you should have half a million in assets - even if you are just "middle class" (i.e. according to that article, making between $50k and $140k a year as a household). If you are 22 years old and just getting out of college, you aren't likely to have anywhere near that, even if you graduated and stepped into a job that paid over $150k.

 

[crisi]

There are only a few places in the United States where you don't need a car. Could I survive without a car? Sure, if I wanted to rely on someone WITH a car to supply all my necessities for daily living, like food.

And very often, they are much more expensive to live in, and come with other problems.

In the Twin Cities, where I live, if you want to live without a car you need to live pretty much within the Minneapolis St. Paul city limits. Public transportation only hits the suburbs for rush hour. Living within the city limits means higher real estate prices, higher taxes, and schools that are not as good as the schools in the suburbs. I have friends who live in the city and love it, but it isn't cheap and they have to make sacrifices to live there. One of my girlfriends has a little tiny 1000 sq ft two bedroom cottage in St. Paul on good public transportation - she could sell it for more than my 3000 sq foot 4 bedroom house in the burbs - and my kids go to a much better public school.

I have to drive to Target and the grocery store, but the cost of the car is less than the cost of living in town.

 

[Anthony1971]

It keeps going up doesn't it? I remember just a few years ago people were arguing whether $250K was considered wealthy or middle class! It has moved up to 401K!

You are reading the chart/article incorrect... the 401k refers to savings not income.... Wealthy can have a 150k income if they have the savings... it is broken down this way as 150k is far different if you are living in NY compared to many other sates affording you the ability to save more. --there are number of different classifications inside the "wealthy" category as well ranging from wealthy to Elite.

Cars ha I guess my wife could walk the 25 miles each way to her job which has no public transportation near by... I take public transportation as I work in NYC but we still have 2 cars as I drop kid off at school/camp -- before care no bus...

WIFI a lot of kids homework are now online only..... much less study guides and learning sites our tax dollars pay for that the school district covers the cost.

Disney my problem is not as much of the price as the decline in what it was-- yes prices go up but when you double a lot of your prices (specifically food) in an 8 or less year period and the quality of what you are getting has declined that leaves a bad taste with me... unaffordable I can agree in some ways --while there are a lot better choices at Disney as far as food but 12.95 and up for a bad burger and fries plus 3.69 for a soda at a CS.... you can eat at Olive garden for the same with a tip and at least the soup is good.. Disney can do better for what they charge.

 

[HarperLeigh]

the 401k is assets not income. If you are a two income family in your 50s and you've been setting aside money for retirement and paying down your house, you should have half a million in assets - even if you are just "middle class" (i.e. according to that article, making between $50k and $140k a year as a household). If you are 22 years old and just getting out of college, you aren't likely to have anywhere near that, even if you graduated and stepped into a job that paid over $150k.

The chart refers to $401,000 as being the benchmark for being wealthy, not 401k as in a retirement fund.

 

[crisi]

The chart refers to $401,000 as being the benchmark for being wealthy, not 401k as in a retirement fund.

Yes, that is what I meant as well, but wasn't clear. Thanks for clarifying it.

 

[HarperLeigh]

Yes, that is what I meant as well, but wasn't clear. Thanks for clarifying it.

Sorry. In re-reading, I see that is what you meant. My mistake.

 

[crisi]

Sorry. In re-reading, I see that is what you meant. My mistake.

No problem, I really wasn't clear. A dollar sign or adding the zeros would have been far less confusing.

 

[Colleen27]

This is very true. We pay for many services now that didn't exist 20-30 years ago, and view some of them as essential like cell phones and wifi.

However, whole-budget analysis shows modern families are generally spending about the same share of their income on essentials - internet and cell phones have essentially replaced long-distance bills, and the cost of a lot of consumer goods have fallen in inflation-adjusted dollars (and in some cases, in real dollars) thanks to globalization and advances in manufacturing technologies. Starbucks habits and daily lunches out are certainly a modern budget problem, but wi-fi and more "gizmos" really isn't.

I'm surprised you've found that DC is more expensive.

Me too. Our last whole family trip to DC cost less than half what we spent on a value stay at WDW. Granted that was the off-season in DC (week between Christmas and New Years) so we were able to get a great hotel rate in town, not far from the Metro, but we generally only do Disney in their off-seasons as well. The lack of admission to most DC attractions and the cheaper eats in a major city made a huge difference in the trip costs.

 

[DawnM]

the 401k is assets not income. If you are a two income family in your 50s and you've been setting aside money for retirement and paying down your house, you should have half a million in assets - even if you are just "middle class" (i.e. according to that article, making between $50k and $140k a year as a household). If you are 22 years old and just getting out of college, you aren't likely to have anywhere near that, even if you graduated and stepped into a job that paid over $150k.

Oh, I see. I didn't have time to read it carefully, but I didn't care enough to either.