Teacher Panhandles to raise money for school supplies

[DawnM]

My argument is that teachers should stop buying the supplies, because it isn't their responsibility. So I'm not even sure why you are arguing against me?

I am arguing because you are saying that teachers should just not buy the supplies and then the student's test scores will go down and "that will show them." But I am arguing that it won't. It won't show them anything other than the teachers "aren't doing their job."

 

[shoney]

Our previous superintendent did not take his salary at all. He was a retired teacher and lived on his teacher retirement and his wife's teacher salary.

Not sure about our current superintendent, but he is a former teacher and his wife is a teacher. Those in admin usually have been in the trenches and understand what the teachers do.

Our former superintendent is collecting over $300 k a year on his pension

Doubt he is buying pencils!

I don't think teachers are using much of their own money either. The district supplies some and parents contribute the rest

I work in a private school. I spend a few dollars here or there for things I want. i will not buy books and essentials!!!

 

[Magpie]

So, what is Your solution?

So far, I have seen argued that:

a)Teachers should use their own money to top up their classroom budgets.

b) The budgets should be increase, but then it has been argued that the funding isn't there.

c)Parents should make up the difference, but also that parents can't afford to make up the difference.

What do you suggest to correct the problem?

A) Parent and teachers both DO use their own money to top up classroom budgets, and you're right that this is not the solution. This is simply further widening the divide between privilege and poverty. On the other hand, just as you're not wrong to homeschool your child, they're not wrong when they contribute financially to their children's classrooms. Every single one of us, parent or teacher, is committed to seeing our children succeed. And that's the way it should be.

B) Just throwing more money at the problem won't help either.

C) Parents, like often do make up the difference. And many other parents can't afford to make up the difference. See above, social inequality.

Personally? I'm far from an expert in education, but I'd envision a fundamental change in the way primary education is delivered, starting with centralizing it, at least at a state level if not at a national one. A completely revised funding formula. A streamlined bureaucracy. And a fair redistribution of school taxes so that wealthy neighbourhoods no longer end up with the lion's share of resources. A single national curriculum. No more schools being punished for low performance by having their funding cut. In fact... the exact opposite should happen. Poor performing schools should have an army of psychological and educational specialists descending on them and as much extra funding as they need. These are the kids who need the most help!

The US has many deep rooted social and structural problems. I hope to see some of them corrected in my lifetime.

In any case, your "solution" is wildly unworkable: "Don't strike, don't quit en masse. Simply do your job, within the budget given to you. If the education isn't effective within those boundaries, the test scores will show it. And administrators respond quickly to lower scores." Even if all teachers in any given board could agree to do this, the wealthier schools would STILL have more money and resources. As well as parent volunteers, modern facilities, and lucrative fundraising efforts, etc. And poorer schools would be penalized financially, making them even more impoverished.

Seriously, please do watch the TED talk I linked above:

And then maybe this one, too, if you want to get to know one of the true heroes fighting in the trenches of education today:

The questions we need to ask are: How can we learn from this woman? How can we support her? How can we replicate her successes?

And it's worth listening to this man's argument for systematic change, too:

How are we going to make his suggestions happen? And happen everywhere? This is exactly where a centralized gov't-run educational system can step in, but many Americans get understandably twitchy when you start talking about that sort of thing.

 

[bellebud]

no doubt it's tough. I'm usually "the gov't is too big, get them out of education, they're ruining it"... But, seeing this teacher shine a light on this issue makes me think "why is all the education money in this country not evenly distributed to each school?" I don't want to see my school in my middle class area have iPads for each kid, when other schools anywhere don't have toilet paper. I'd be happy for my property taxes that go to school be evenly distributed around the country.

 

[sam_gordon]

I am not a teacher, but a parent. My kids go to PS. We supply them with what the teacher asks for, and usually some more for the class.

That being said... @Happyinwonerland, you feel (if I understand you correctly) that if teachers would simply work within their budget, let test scores drop, then administrators/government would see there's a a problem and do something to fix it. Do I understand that correctly?

But then you say...

But we are in a very educationally poor state. We have one of thr lowest high school graduation rates in the nation. I'm not putting my daughter's mind into those hands. And our administrators do take their high salaries, while asking people in the district to volunteer 10 hours a month to providing janitorial duties, so that thry can have less janitorial staff. This was a real suggestion by our superintendent who makes a quarter of a million dollars per year. So yeah, I believe there is fat to cut at the top.

Presumably, if you have one of the lowest HS graduation rates, the test scores are probably pretty bad. Have the low test scores in your district caused administrators/government to increase the education budget? Assuming no (correct me if I'm wrong), why do you think low test scores elsewhere would prompt change?

 

[tarheel618]

I'm not anti-public school at all. I know that not every family can or wants to homeschool. I'm glad kids from those families will get a good education. I've also said that if my child were in public school, I'd be working with her outside of school to fill in the gaps .

But we are in a very educationally poor state. We have one of thr lowest high school graduation rates in the nation. I'm not putting my daughter's mind into those hands. And our administrators do take their high salaries, while asking people in the district to volunteer 10 hours a month to providing janitorial duties, so that thry can have less janitorial staff. This was a real suggestion by our superintendent who makes a quarter of a million dollars per year. So yeah, I believe there is fat to cut at the top.

Whose hands are you referring to?

 

[DisneyHardin]

I am a Librarian at a low income school in a large district (27th largest in the US). My budget for the year is $1000 - that's not even enough to cover books that get worn out/damaged during the school year. So, I have to supplement if I don't want my # of books to go into a deficit each year. I have a Book Fair and do Scholastic Book orders to be able to get some books. But, mainly I spend my summers scouring yard sales/thrift stores for newer publication date hardback books that I can put into my Library. I guess I don't *have* to do it, but I want my students to have good books to read.

I am lucky that my district does pay their teachers a very competitive wage, but I am still spending several thousand dollars of my own money each year to keep things running smoothly.

 

[HelloTheDrakes]

A) Parent and teachers both DO use their own money to top up classroom budgets, and you're right that this is not the solution. This is simply further widening the divide between privilege and poverty. On the other hand, just as you're not wrong to homeschool your child, they're not wrong when they contribute financially to their children's classrooms. Every single one of us, parent or teacher, is committed to seeing our children succeed. And that's the way it should be.

B) Just throwing more money at the problem won't help either.

C) Parents, like often do make up the difference. And many other parents can't afford to make up the difference. See above, social inequality.

Personally? I'm far from an expert in education, but I'd envision a fundamental change in the way primary education is delivered, starting with centralizing it, at least at a state level if not at a national one. A completely revised funding formula. A streamlined bureaucracy. And a fair redistribution of school taxes so that wealthy neighbourhoods no longer end up with the lion's share of resources. A single national curriculum. No more schools being punished for low performance by having their funding cut. In fact... the exact opposite should happen. Poor performing schools should have an army of psychological and educational specialists descending on them and as much extra funding as they need. These are the kids who need the most help!

The US has many deep rooted social and structural problems. I hope to see some of them corrected in my lifetime.

In any case, your "solution" is wildly unworkable: "Don't strike, don't quit en masse. Simply do your job, within the budget given to you. If the education isn't effective within those boundaries, the test scores will show it. And administrators respond quickly to lower scores." Even if all teachers in any given board could agree to do this, the wealthier schools would STILL have more money and resources. As well as parent volunteers, modern facilities, and lucrative fundraising efforts, etc. And poorer schools would be penalized financially, making them even more impoverished.

Seriously, please do watch the TED talk I linked above:

And then maybe this one, too, if you want to get to know one of the true heroes fighting in the trenches of education today:

The questions we need to ask are: How can we learn from this woman? How can we support her? How can we replicate her successes?

And it's worth listening to this man's argument for systematic change, too:

How are we going to make his suggestions happen? And happen everywhere? This is exactly where a centralized gov't-run educational system can step in, but many Americans get understandably twitchy when you start talking about that sort of thing.

Thank you for sharing these. Educating, insightful and inspiring. Good reminder as I gear up for my second semester in my program to become a teacher.

 

[mummabear]

I have already said that it would be far better for teacher to have an "allowance" of sorts, to spend for their classroom. Thankfully, teachers do get $250 from their taxes to cover some of it.

Question: if you had the $250 allowance would you also get the $250 tax? Are you loosing some tax benefit that could benefit you personally because you are claiming it on school spending?

And I am telling you once again that that isn't how it works. You don't just not provide and the powers that be say, "Oh, it must be because we screwed up by not providing the supplies!~ Let's up that budget for supplies!" The FIRST thing that comes out of their mouths (and the public's mouth) is that teachers are to blame! Teachers didn't teach well. Teachers didn't provide the necessary learning environment.

And a United front from all teachers, publicly announcing that you were not going to continue to personally fund your students needs then showing the public what that really looks like, what it is you don't have.
Then the unions disputing the cause of the results. Showing that the same teacher in the same school with the differing results can only be a result of you not topping up supplies out of your pocket.

Hell I think even just waiting 1 week into the school year to buy things and having a journalist show what you are missing. Here is my class with 32 desks for 36 students, I have no dry erase markers etc would show the problem. Unfortunately many people are in denial that there is an issue because a band aid is being put on it (by teachers who are doing so because they care)

 

[DawnM]

Question: if you had the $250 allowance would you also get the $250 tax? Are you loosing some tax benefit that could benefit you personally because you are claiming it on school spending?

Well since it is all hypothetical and the $250 downy really cover all that is needed, no, you can have both in my hypothetical world!



And a United front from all teachers, publicly announcing that you were not going to continue to personally fund your students needs then showing the public what that really looks like, what it is you don't have.
Then the unions disputing the cause of the results. Showing that the same teacher in the same school with the differing results can only be a result of you not topping up supplies out of your pocket.

Hell I think even just waiting 1 week into the school year to buy things and having a journalist show what you are missing. Here is my class with 32 desks for 36 students, I have no dry erase markers etc would show the problem. Unfortunately many people are in denial that there is an issue because a band aid is being put on it (by teachers who are doing so because they care)

Our state does not allow unions but almost every Fall, after school starts, there is some piece on the news about not enough supplies or box or whatever, but not much is done about it.

 

[Southernmiss]

One of the bottom lines for the USA public educational system is political.

Keeping tax breaks for businesses, not raising taxes to keep constituents happy, my kids are homechooled why should I pay school tax, my kids go to private school, my kids are grown,etc. Tough choices like raise school funding and cut healthcare or services to the poor or fire or police, etc.

Not much teacher A from Peoria can do to change that. It will require a systemic change of mind and hearts.

 

[shoney]

no doubt it's tough. I'm usually "the gov't is too big, get them out of education, they're ruining it"... But, seeing this teacher shine a light on this issue makes me think "why is all the education money in this country not evenly distributed to each school?" I don't want to see my school in my middle class area have iPads for each kid, when other schools anywhere don't have toilet paper. I'd be happy for my property taxes that go to school be evenly distributed around the country.

Long Island is still very segregated. The better towns have better schools and property values are attached to this. The same house could be worth 200k less in a neighboring town only a mile away. People also pay a lot of money in property taxes that fund the schools and would not be willing to fund neighboring towns.
People here would be very upset if they changed the zoning and funding of the schools. Not saying it is right but it is the reality.

 

[pumpkinmomma]

But sadly they do. The government isn't going to fix a problem they don't think they have. Teachers can complain until they are blue in the face but if teachers continue to solve the problem for them they have no motivation to change.



It would require a collective decision by all teachers to stop paying out of their own pocket.



You don't buy the cow when you get the milk for free.



Interesting it works in reverse here in NZ, schools are on a decile system, rated on various socio economic factors, house prices, #of people on welfare etc. A decline 10 school is the "richest" and a decline 1 the "poorest"
A decline 1 school gets significantly more funding than a 10 despite the fact that decline 10 families pay more in income and property tax.
It is believed that the decline 10 schools can fundraise the difference, not something that always happens because many parents protest this fact.
And the schools that often end the worst off are the decline 5s who have neither the funding they need or the parents to make up the shortfall



Would it be there right away? No.
Would it lead to being there? Likely, at least more likely than it is now.

I think @Happyinwonerland is really being attacked here for saying the same thing I did right at the start of this thread.

I think it sucks that teachers are being underpaid and overworked, I think it is terrible that they are purchasing school supplies out of that small salary.
I think that teachers are doing their best with what they have got and that people that have gone into and stayed in this profession truely care about the kids and that is wonderful, and that is why I think posters seem to be taking such offenders to the idea that is being suggested that you "let these kids down"
However you are propping up a broken system. Nothing will change as long as you do this.
You need to let parents, taxpayers and lawmakers see how dire the situation is. Lawmakers are counting on guilting you into doing this.
But it is going to lead to further issues down the line where another group of children is going to end up even worse off. People will stop wanting to become teachers and hen what?
If all teachers did this collectively the children would remain in an even standing with each other, your performance reviews would stay comparable and you would think in an interview you would be given the chance to explain that your poor review came from not having resources to meet the standards.

Your post assumes that our politicians don't know how bad it is. They do

Question: if you had the $250 allowance would you also get the $250 tax? Are you loosing some tax benefit that could benefit you personally because you are claiming it on school spending?



And a United front from all teachers, publicly announcing that you were not going to continue to personally fund your students needs then showing the public what that really looks like, what it is you don't have.
Then the unions disputing the cause of the results. Showing that the same teacher in the same school with the differing results can only be a result of you not topping up supplies out of your pocket.

Hell I think even just waiting 1 week into the school year to buy things and having a journalist show what you are missing. Here is my class with 32 desks for 36 students, I have no dry erase markers etc would show the problem. Unfortunately many people are in denial that there is an issue because a band aid is being put on it (by teachers who are doing so because they care)

the $250 is a deduction, not a tax credit. So I get to deduct $250 from my gross income on my taxes, but I don't get the full $250 back. I just don't have to pay federal taxes on that money.

Me? I'd rather have the $250 for supplies.

 

[mjkacmom]

no doubt it's tough. I'm usually "the gov't is too big, get them out of education, they're ruining it"... But, seeing this teacher shine a light on this issue makes me think "why is all the education money in this country not evenly distributed to each school?" I don't want to see my school in my middle class area have iPads for each kid, when other schools anywhere don't have toilet paper. I'd be happy for my property taxes that go to school be evenly distributed around the country.

Not me! We have that in our state. My property taxes are twice those in poorer urban areas, where they spend 2 times as much on education, and their schools are still failing!

 

[mjkacmom]

Our previous superintendent did not take his salary at all. He was a retired teacher and lived on his teacher retirement and his wife's teacher salary.

Not sure about our current superintendent, but he is a former teacher and his wife is a teacher. Those in admin usually have been in the trenches and understand what the teachers do.

Our previous superintendent is collecting 2 high pensions, and now has a county job, after which he will collect a 3rd pension.

 

[mummabear]

One of the bottom lines for the USA public educational system is political.

Keeping tax breaks for businesses, not raising taxes to keep constituents happy, my kids are homechooled why should I pay school tax, my kids go to private school, my kids are grown,etc. Tough choices like raise school funding and cut healthcare or services to the poor or fire or police, etc.

Not much teacher A from Peoria can do to change that. It will require a systemic change of mind and hearts.

I think everyone here agrees on how important education is for all children. Regardless of their parents wealth.
Most of us understand that with taxes we all put in, some of us take out more at one time of our lives and less in another, or take out more in one area and less in another.
The education of children effects everyone even those who do t have kids-if we don't educate kids who will become to your doctor tomorrow?

As I have said though the education system is in crisis really and it will only get worse, the next generation will be looking and asking themselves do I really want to go through the expense of collage to be poorly paid, overworked and underfunded. What then when we don't have enough teachers to run classes?
Sometimes we have to be cruel to be kind, .We have to let a problem get worse today so that it can get better tomorrow.

Long Island is still very segregated. The better towns have better schools and property values are attached to this. The same house could be worth 200k less in a neighboring town only a mile away. People also pay a lot of money in property taxes that fund the schools and would not be willing to fund neighboring towns.
People here would be very upset if they changed the zoning and funding of the schools. Not saying it is right but it is the reality.

Funding and zoning are two seperate things.
As I said upthread, here in NZ we have reverse funding, those in the "nicest" areas who pay the most in taxes (decline 10), their schools get the least funding, the "poorest" areas get the most (decline 1).
Like your housing markets a house in one area can be worth significantly more (decile 10) than one a block away (decline 1) based on which school they are zoned for.

Your post assumes that our politicians don't know how bad it is. They do

But it hasnt really been made their problem. The politicians have no consequences for the lack of funding, they aren't being made to be held accountable. Because despite talk, the problem is being covered up (by caring and well meaning educators and parents)
Sadly people are selfish really, if it's not made their problem they won't really care about solving it.

 

[Southernmiss]

Our previous superintendent is collecting 2 high pensions, and now has a county job, after which he will collect a 3rd pension.

That's crazy!

 

[pumpkinmomma]

I think everyone here agrees on how important education is for all children. Regardless of their parents wealth.
Most of us understand that with taxes we all put in, some of us take out more at one time of our lives and less in another, or take out more in one area and less in another.
The education of children effects everyone even those who do t have kids-if we don't educate kids who will become to your doctor tomorrow?

As I have said though the education system is in crisis really and it will only get worse, the next generation will be looking and asking themselves do I really want to go through the expense of collage to be poorly paid, overworked and underfunded. What then when we don't have enough teachers to run classes?
Sometimes we have to be cruel to be kind, .We have to let a problem get worse today so that it can get better tomorrow.



Funding and zoning are two seperate things.
As I said upthread, here in NZ we have reverse funding, those in the "nicest" areas who pay the most in taxes (decline 10), their schools get the least funding, the "poorest" areas get the most (decline 1).
Like your housing markets a house in one area can be worth significantly more (decile 10) than one a block away (decline 1) based on which school they are zoned for.



But it hasnt really been made their problem. The politicians have no consequences for the lack of funding, they aren't being made to be held accountable. Because despite talk, the problem is being covered up (by caring and well meaning educators and parents)
Sadly people are selfish really, if it's not made their problem they won't really care about solving it.

Nope. It's not been covered up. There is plenty of evidence of the challenges we face here in OK. You truly have no idea what is going on in my state. We are pretty much dead last in nearly every educational measure (or darn close to it). The politicians know, there have been anti-education politicians voted out at the state level in the last election, but it takes a long time to dig out from a hole this deep.

As far as those anti-ed politicians? Well, they want us to fail so they can replace public ed with privatization. They know exactly what they are doing.

 

[penn19]

We live across the street from the elementary school that our children attended. Great teachers, administrators and my kids learned all that they needed to move on to middle school and succeed in high school and beyond. The school's state test scores were good and well respected in the area.

We had hurricane Katrina in 2005. In the aftermath of Katrina, several low income housing developments were built in the local area that feed into the school. The demographics of the students changed from mostly middle to upper income students to low income students from single parent homes and students being raised by grandparents or great grandparents.

The test scores and the rating of the school has dropped. Same staff, teachers, administrators just a different mix of students.

I think this is telling of the statement that parents and families greatly influence the education of their children.

Kudos to all teachers in the trenches doing the best they can with multiple factors beyond their control.

Funny that I came across this post. There was a similar post last week on our local Facebook community page. And a mom posted basically the same thing. And her and anyone who agreed with her statement was branded a racist. Instead of saying hmm, maybe there's something to this let's investigate further, it was an automatic cry of racism.
And for the record, we bus in my city. It's supposed to be socioeconomically balanced. So you might live 2 blocks from a high school but they bus you to the one across town.

 

[tinkerbellandeeyor]

I agree with the poster who asked who is going to be your doctor tomorrow if we don't educate our kids today