Severance package received more.

[minniecarousel]

He could always have a lawyer check the paperwork, but there's probably nothing he can do. The timing sucks! I hope something comes about for him soon.

 

[zoo2tycoon]

Went through this 4.5 years ago with my hubby. Company downsizing (think auto) and had laid off many people over a few years. He was there 20+ years and his package was less than some of the first rounds beothey couldn’t afford to pay anyone.

It’s a terrible feeling going through not knowing what comes ahead. My hubby started new job week of last severance paycheck. It is hard watching a man in his 40s look for a job and know he feels terrible.

Honestly I’d think about cost of lawyer, what others said it being public record, etc. Unless it’s discrimination they can let you go- unless he has a contract stating he gets XYZ if terminated by new management he’s probably out of luck.

Sorry you are going through- in the end it’s hard to see but he’ll probably be better off in a place where they appreciate him and he likes the management and job.

 

[nordkin]

^^^This is spot on. He should get a complete copy of his personnel file from HR, he should also have a copy of the current Employee Handbook. Contact an employment law attorney and discuss this with the attorney. You probably have little recourse, but this way you will know for sure.

A complete copy of a personnel file from HR isn’t going to happen and they do not have to provide it. He would be allowed to see it in the presence of HR or a supervisor, but will not be allowed to copy anything. He should be aware of everything in it and should have made copies as he was given things such as appraisals. I know hindsight, but truth.

 

[AustinMommyofThree]

I went through this 12 years ago. I consulted an attorney, which you may want to do.
His advice, move on. His reasons. Legal action is likely going to take about 10 years to final resolution. And taking legal action against an employer will be public information and may make you unemployable because a new employer doesn't want to take a chance on you. How are you going to live in the meantime.

Both of those seem like very much worst-case scenario outcomes. Most employment cases are settled with NDAs and are not only not public record, they are confidential. And unless the company and employee have a massive case and deep pockets, most are settled very quickly. If OP’s husband is being treated unfairly or illegally, inquiring via an attorney is not a bad idea in my opinion, to see what may be shaken loose.

 

[smokeyblue]

A complete copy of a personnel file from HR isn’t going to happen and they do not have to provide it. He would be allowed to see it in the presence of HR or a supervisor, but will not be allowed to copy anything. He should be aware of everything in it and should have made copies as he was given things such as appraisals. I know hindsight, but truth.

I don't know about your state, but in Michigan employers are obligated to allow current and former employees to view and make copies of their employment file. It the employer cannot make reasonable accommodations to make this happen, they are obliged to provide a copy of the record at no cost.

 

[bcla]

This has a list of relevant state laws:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/chapter5-2.html

 

[tvguy]

Both of those seem like very much worst-case scenario outcomes. Most employment cases are settled with NDAs and are not only not public record, they are confidential. And unless the company and employee have a massive case and deep pockets, most are settled very quickly. If OP’s husband is being treated unfairly or illegally, inquiring via an attorney is not a bad idea in my opinion, to see what may be shaken loose.

Yes, NDAS are common, as they should be. If something can be settled before getting to trial, that's a win for everyone. But as the lawyer I consulted (who specialized in employment law), these cases rarely move quickly.
But a good severance package will offer enough financial incentive, cash, benefits, agreeing not to contest unemployment benefits, that court action won't happen.
But one strike against OP's husband IMHO is he had an employment agreement. Those usually have a time frame of employment, so the implication is, there was no guarantee of employment beyond a certain time frame.

 

[SteveH]

A complete copy of a personnel file from HR isn’t going to happen and they do not have to provide it....

While I agree eveyone should know what is in and have copies that's not always the case. As another user pointed out, access to your file varies greatly by State.

 

[Snowflakey]

SO SORRY to hear you are going through this. I lost my job - a job I absolutely LOVED - after 26 years. I was heartbroken. Looking back I saw it coming but didn't dare jump ship before because I loved it there so much. It's been 4 years now and I've had 2 jobs since. I have to say - I super happy once again!! Making a good amount more than I was, 30 days of PTO, great benefits. What I'm saying here is keep the faith. Look forward, not back. Best of luck!!

 

[DebbieB]

At my company, when you sign a severance agreement you waive the right to sue. So going that route is risking ending up with nothing.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

My opinion is to definitely consult a lawyer. I had a very similar thing happen to an old boss/friend of mine (personality conflicts - high performance) and she said that bringing the lawyer in made a HUGE difference in the amount of her severance package - hundreds of thousands of dollars more. While she didn't tell me the exact amount, she said that the offer from the company is definitely negotiable and that having a lawyer there made her feel much more secure when she signed off on the acceptance letter. She said that even if the offer hadn't changed, she would still recommend the lawyer. The retainer and fee is absolutely worth the peace of mind.

HUNDREDS of thousands more? What was she, the CEO?

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Hubby being let go from software company where he has worked for over 20 years. New management doesn't like him and despite over 20 years of excellent annual reviews and promotions and awards and raises, he's being terminated. After meeting with human resources, he is being offered a piss poor exit package- granted there is nothing in his employment contract about what an employee who is terminated should receive. Do we have any recourse? Should he try to counter offer? Lawyer? It's a scary time for our family. And others that were terminated recently with less seniority got better packages.

Like anything else, a severance package is negotiable. Think about it. Why is he being offered an exit package? To go away quietly? Yup. That's pretty much it. Well going away quietly has a value doesn't it? A value that can be negotiated. How much is it really worth to have him go away quietly? Sounds to that value may be much higher than they're giving.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm really sorry you're going through this.

You could see if the offer is negotiable. Are there specific reasons they are giving your husband for the amount he was offered? From what I read depending on how the severance package is given (lump sum vs payments) it's possible to apply for unemployment. You may check your state rules regarding unemployment. While you may not be able to get actual records from HR if he was able to apply for unemployment speaking towards the annual reviews, the raises and promotions, etc would be pertinent information. If you are in an at-will state unless they are doing something against employment laws they can terminate without cause.

 

[marcyleecorgan]

*many internet hugs from others in similar circumstances* I think most of us have been here at one point in our lives or another. Stay positive!

 

[bcla]

I'm really sorry you're going through this.

You could see if the offer is negotiable. Are there specific reasons they are giving your husband for the amount he was offered? From what I read depending on how the severance package is given (lump sum vs payments) it's possible to apply for unemployment. You may check your state rules regarding unemployment. While you may not be able to get actual records from HR if he was able to apply for unemployment speaking towards the annual reviews, the raises and promotions, etc would be pertinent information. If you are in an at-will state unless they are doing something against employment laws they can terminate without cause.

I looked up the laws in my state, and if there’s an active lawsuit the obligation to provide employment records goes away. I suppose they could still be subpoenaed.

In my personal experience, I took severance over two months one time, which was recommended to reduce withholding. Unemployment didn’t care about it since it was an obligation that wasn’t considered regular pay. This is what I saw:

http://www.edd.ca.gov/unemployment/FAQ_-_Collecting_Benefits.htm

• How does severance pay affect my eligibility to receive unemployment insurance benefits?

Severance pay is not deducted from unemployment insurance benefits and does not affect your eligibility to receive benefits. The method of payment, such as a lump sum payment or payments paid to you at regular pay period intervals does not change the nature of the payment. However, you must report severance pay at the time you file your unemployment insurance claim.​

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I looked up the laws in my state, and if there’s an active lawsuit the obligation to provide employment records goes away. I suppose they could still be subpoenaed.

In my personal experience, I took severance over two months one time, which was recommended to reduce withholding. Unemployment didn’t care about it since it was an obligation that wasn’t considered regular pay. This is what I saw:

http://www.edd.ca.gov/unemployment/FAQ_-_Collecting_Benefits.htm

• How does severance pay affect my eligibility to receive unemployment insurance benefits?

Severance pay is not deducted from unemployment insurance benefits and does not affect your eligibility to receive benefits. The method of payment, such as a lump sum payment or payments paid to you at regular pay period intervals does not change the nature of the payment. However, you must report severance pay at the time you file your unemployment insurance claim.​

It all depends on state laws which is why I put that comment in there. OP should be checking with their state since that's all that actually matters.

For instance your state says "The method of payment, such as a lump sum payment or payments paid to you at regular pay period intervals does not change the nature of the payment."

But for my state "...severance pay delays the date that an applicant may begin receiving unemployment benefits. Severance pay does not reduce the amount of weeks a claimant is eligible for unemployment benefits. If the payment is made in a lump sum, both the employer and claimant are asked the amount of time the pay was intended to cover. Unemployment benefits will begin after the last day the lump sum payment was intended to cover." You also have to report severance pay when you file your unemployment claim.

My neighboring state says this: "Severance pay is not reportable, so you may file an unemployment claim while receiving severance pay. We cannot determine your eligibility for unemployment benefits until you file a claim." As well as "Severance, termination pay or Social Security payments do not reduce your WBA. Pensions may reduce your unemployment benefits."

The other neighboring state says this: "How will Vacation, Severance, or the receipt of Other Payments affect my eligibility to receive benefits?
Benefits may be denied or reduced for any week for which your employer has made or will make such payments. Certain other types of payment from employers may be disqualifying or deductible from benefit payments. Examples include holiday pay, bonus, sick pay or workers’ compensation."

The other neighboring state says this: "If you received vacation, severance, pension, 401(k), or some other form of payment from your employer as the result of your separation, this may reduce or delay your benefit payments. You will receive a Notice of Decision if this happens."

The other neighboring state says this: "Payments will also be denied or reduced by: (1) Receipt of dismissal and/or severance payments required by law or contract."

Some states say you may be denied or your payments reduced or that your payments won't begin until severance pay is complete (so a lump sum would be different than taking payments). OP should be checking with their state.

ETA: I guess my sentence could have read "From what I read depending on how the severance package is given (lump sum vs payments) it's possible to apply for unemployment however severance may delay payments or you could be denied." But I followed up my original comment with "You may check your state rules regarding unemployment."

 

[nkereina]

Very sorry you are dealing with this. We have been there too. For me, it would depend on how much I thought I was being shorted. If it was a substantial sum, maybe I'd check with a lawyer. But I'd be hesitant to move forward with legal action because, as mentioned, that may rub future employers the wrong way. I work in an industry where everyone knows everyone else in my area, and that would be a big bridge burned if I went down the lawyer road. Personally, if it were me, I might just counter and try to negotiate it myself in the most professional way possible. Offer to stay on, provide training and training documents, etc. if they can do better with the severance. The worst they can say is no. Good luck to you!

 

[bcla]

At my company, when you sign a severance agreement you waive the right to sue. So going that route is risking ending up with nothing.

Yeah. I've been let go a few times. In one case it was pretty cut and dry and I signed the severance agreement on my last day. I've always been informed about my rights to everything, including a copy of my employment record and that accepting severance includes waiving any right to sue my former employer. My last time I didn't send in my severance agreement for a week.

It's been a while, but the time I had a 60 day notice after the layoff, I actually started working at another company within the notice period. I was still getting paid by my previous employer and I had the severance agreement in hand waiting for the end of the notice period. My biggest worry was that they might recall me during that period. In that case I'd have to quit and give up the severance and whatever pay was forthcoming. During that time I mentioned that we had the help of a career counselor. Someone asked what to do if landing a job before the end of the period, and we were told to not worry about it unless being recalled. Nobody got recalled for full time work, although my manager asked me to come in for one day to help archive my work. It was really odd too with that mass layoff. It was obvious that HR had been working on the separation paperwork for at least a week, but none of the rank and file knew. Even the one executive in our group didn't know, and he was out of a job immediately.

That layoff was interesting. We were going to a meeting where we would hear from the CEO of the company looking to buy our division. He was only on a speaker phone, but it sounded like he was crying and very apologetic to everyone. Then HR came in with a large stack of envelopes. We were basically given until the end of the day to pack our personal belongings, although theoretically we could be allowed back in. It took me less than an hour, and we went out for lunch in groups and spent most of our time chatting it up and telling war stories. We also went out for beers with the exec in our group. It wasn't really traumatizing either. I've heard of cases where security was brought in to make sure that no vandalism took place or to look over people packing, but we had nothing other than our normal receptionist there.

 

[princess barbara]

Wow-OP again- lots of war stories. It appears many of you have dealt with similar scenarios and have survived. To add further- only discrimination we can see against hubby is his salary. As I mentioned he has new management in several levels above him that feel he's overpaid and they seem to think they can get someone in to do the job for less. Your kind words and advice have helped. We're mostly worried about benefits as we currently have great dental, vision and health plans. And with children we utilize it all!
Since this is Mass. I think I will encourage him to at least request his personal file just to make sure there are no surprises. And he's checked the employee handbook but nothing much there. Like the post above, his company is the type in the past that layed off without warning and the employee would pack under security's watchful eye then be escorted off the property- glad that this isn't my husband's case as they want him to delegate some of his work til they hire someone at a cheaper rate. Sigh- in the meantime we all have dentist visits and eye exams in next several weeks! Thanks for all the advice.

 

[bcla]

Since this is Mass. I think I will encourage him to at least request his personal file just to make sure there are no surprises. And he's checked the employee handbook but nothing much there. Like the post above, his company is the type in the past that layed off without warning and the employee would pack under security's watchful eye then be escorted off the property- glad that this isn't my husband's case as they want him to delegate some of his work til they hire someone at a cheaper rate. Sigh- in the meantime we all have dentist visits and eye exams in next several weeks! Thanks for all the advice.

Certainly check the local laws.

I was at a company for a while and I got laid off as one in a series of salary shedding cuts. I actually got a two month notice and they wanted me coming to work during that period to complete my work. So if I was inclined to do something to sabotage the company I had plenty of opportunity. I also had the security codes and from what I understand they didn't change them just because I was gone. I'd visited a few times afterwards for social visits, and their parking lot gate had the same code. Heck - I even double checked to see if I could still get into my email just in case I was getting personal messages, and nobody cut my email account either.

That was really strange too. I was given a lot of deference for my long time service. If I didn't have an urgent task to do, I was allowed to check jobs sites and even use the meeting rooms for phone interviews. If I had to go out for an interview I think I wouldn't have been allowed to do so with pay. And on my last day we went out for a goodbye lunch similar to how people who voluntarily left had such a lunch.