Park report - 12-12-21 (and why I hate G+)

[starlite_]

It’s called a contrast effect and it’s thinking like this that will allow it to continue.

Not what I meant. I mean that if you are already spending a minimum of $1k on just plane tickets (so in reality more like a minimum of $5k if you include tickets, food, hotels, etc. ) in what is probably not a yearly trip, then paying an extra $100 a day to spend less time on the line + guaranteed access to what could arguably be the most wanted ride currently... it doesn't seem like that crazy amount of money. It's almost the price of a spirit jacket + minnie ears.

To paraphrase another post on this forum, it comes down to value, for an international visitor the price might add a lot of value to the trip. For a MK'er who might only spend $100 a visit then of course it might not since it doubles the amount of money spent and they have a chance to do the ride next month.

That's my opinion as an international visitor.

 

[Dory92130]

I don't like the idea of a family of five having the pay an additional $100 simply to experience ROTR. Indeed, I despise it.

Folk can elect to pay for front of the line experience. VIP tours are the same at another level. Pay to play on time efficiency. Same can be said for 21 Royal. Disney is following a path already set by Universal and others at this model. It's certainly a money decision and one that many once-in-lifetime people will pay with their limited time on stage.

The rest of us get steerage.

 

[mommabo]

It’s called a contrast effect and it’s thinking like this that will allow it to continue.

As a local, you have the luxury of being able to take a stand and not purchase Genie+ with the knowledge it’s easy to return another day. For that family of 5 who might make it to Disney once every 3 years or perhaps just the one time trip, the purchase of Genie+ is a choice to made in the budgeting process. We all do it in to varying degrees in our lives. Buying that new car, if the choice was made to buy brand new and tinted windows option costs 1k more, you might decide I’m already in 25k what’s another 1k for something that will improve my experience with the car, whereas the fancy trim might not be important to me. Are the tinted windows the only reason I’m buying that car? No, but once the big decision regarding which car has been made, there are still choices within that decision to be dealt with.

For the family of 5 the choice of buying Genie+ might be made to improve their experience or they may decide their experience will be totally acceptable without it. Or better yet, they decided against it, didn’t know October would be crazy busy and once they get there they decide, screw it, we will buy it for one day. At least as things stand, they aren’t forced into an all or nothing decision. I think we can all agree a free FP option was better to a paid only option, but that ship has sailed. One could argue, no FP at all, everyone does stand by. If that were the decision by Disney, then people who don’t like lines or commando style touring to make the most of their experience would have choices to make as well.

You call this thinking, contrast effect, okay, but its likely just one factor in the decision making process. Perhaps it wasn’t your intention and I read more into ‘it’s thinking like this that allows it to continue‘, but I understand why that family of 5 and others, including myself, will make the purchase to improve their experience for one or more days of their visit. I don’t see it going away, the genie is out of the bottle (sorry, I couldn’t resist).

 

[WonkaKid]

Not what I meant. I mean that if you are already spending a minimum of $1k on just plane tickets (so in reality more like a minimum of $5k if you include tickets, food, hotels, etc. ) in what is probably not a yearly trip, then paying an extra $100 a day to spend less time on the line + guaranteed access to what could arguably be the most wanted ride currently... it doesn't seem like that crazy amount of money.

That's exactly what a contrast effect is: something that might seem high or unfair with no context suddenly looks small in comparison to other factors. It's a compliance technique. Was it the only consideration that went into this choice? Unlikely. But I suspect someone raised the idea at some point. And because it doesn't sound so bad in comparison to an overall cost, many people -- or at least enough -- are willing to overlook it. That, in part, is why it's been generally accepted by guests and why Disney will, if you'll pardon the expression, get away with it. It's as if a restaurant tacked on a small "facilities fee" and it seemed so small in comparison to the overall bill that people don't mind it. It's a way to get an additional charge accepted, even if it's not reasonable or fair. Can Disney charge anything they like for access to anything at the park? Of course. This is a business in a capitalist society. But I'm also free to vent my displeasure with it and you're also free to disagree. Perhaps if enough guests had balked at it, Disney may have backed down. But because it seems like a small surcharge, people allow it to pass largely unchallenged

 

[mommabo]

That's exactly what a contrast effect is: something that might seem high or unfair with no context suddenly looks small in comparison to other factors. It's a compliance technique. Was it the only consideration that went into this choice? Unlikely. But I suspect someone raised the idea at some point. And because it doesn't sound so bad in comparison to an overall cost, many people -- or at least enough -- are willing to overlook it. That, in part, is why it's been generally accepted by guests and why Disney will, if you'll pardon the expression, get away with it. It's as if a restaurant tacked on a small "facilities fee" and it seemed so small in comparison to the overall bill that people don't mind it. It's a way to get an additional charge accepted, even if it's not reasonable or fair. Can Disney charge anything they like for access to anything at the park? Of course. This is a business in a capitalist society. But I'm also free to vent my displeasure with it and you're also free to disagree. Perhaps if enough guests had balked at it, Disney may have backed down. But because it seems like a small surcharge, people allow it to pass largely unchallenged

I don’t think anyone is disputing you venting your displeasure, simply offering a different point of view.

I also don’t think people are allowing it to go largely unchallenged because it seems like a small surcharge, I am of the belief that most who buy Genie+ will do so because they find value in it. Unlike the restaurant charging a facilities fee where it is more difficult to find the value (at least to me), Genie+ offers something of value (at least to me) for the fee. To that end, I actively avoid dining at restaurants that add this fee (I’m looking at you Vegas strip restaurants). I suppose this is me balking and speaking with my wallet all the while knowing my ‘taking a stand‘ will have little to no affect on those fees being removed. Just like I feel it would have taken a helluva lot of people to balk at the Genie+ charge for Disney to have backed down. Even then, I doubt they would have blinked given that MaxPass has been around and by all accounts very successful, it was just a matter of tIme before Disney, being a business in a capitalist society, monetized something that had been free, but they knew people would value and therefore buy.

But I do get your frustration, WonkaKid. For instance, I personally hate social media (I suppose these boards are social media), but I mean in the traditional sense, Facebook, Twitter, etc. For years friends and family have tried to get me join, but its not gonna happen. For me the negative these types of media bring far outweigh the positive. Could I keep my account mostly free of this negativity? Probably. But just idea of participating in it bothers me, so I choose not to while just about everyone else I know has at least Facebook. As much as I loathe social media, it’s never going away. Do I think my friends and family who use it are ‘part of the problem’? No.…. But then again, who knows, maybe they are, and I’m not on there to know if they are tinfoil, conspiracy theory, the end is nigh proclaimers.

Okay not exactly the same, but we all have our windmills at which we tilt.

 

[WonkaKid]

As a local, you have the luxury of being able to take a stand and not purchase Genie+ with the knowledge it’s easy to return another day. For that family of 5 who might make it to Disney once every 3 years or perhaps just the one time trip, the purchase of Genie+ is a choice to made in the budgeting process.

Had FPs remained free, the family then wouldn't be compelled to pay ad additional $100. Lines would be reasonable. By doing away with them, standby lines are now far too long for many/most guests.

 

[mommabo]

Had FPs remained free, the family then wouldn't be compelled to pay ad additional $100. Lines would be reasonable. By doing away with them, standby lines are now far too long for many/most guests.

Oh for sure, free is better than not free. But I do have a question regarding your statement ‘lines would be more reasonable’. By all accounts, the standby lines suffer whether the FP are free of paid for. I’m not sure how Genie+ will make them worse than free FP. Or perhaps I am missing the point you are making (entirely possible).
Also, was this post always on the Disneyland community board? I thought it was on the general Disneyland board.

 

[WonkaKid]

Oh for sure, free is better than not free. But I do have a question regarding your statement ‘lines would be more reasonable’. By all accounts, the standby lines suffer whether the FP are free of paid for. I’m not sure how Genie+ will make them worse than free FP.

I don't think we're too far apart . What I meant is that without free FPs, lines get super long. Then when the situation looks/feel intolerable, Disney suggests a solution... one that comes at a price. They create a problem and then sell you a solution. It feels a bit like a local small-town mechanic going around at night sabotaging alternators... and then having a sale on alternator service the next day. To many, G+ seems preferable to waiting in a two-hour line -- I get that, of course. But to me it feels like guests are being asked to pay for things twice: once at the gate (≈ $150) and then again at the attraction. Now that this has been tolerated, I suspect other things that were once included with admission will be examined for possible exploitation. For example, I bring my own tea to the park. Up until about two years ago, any restaurant at DL would give me a free Styrofoam cup and then I'd draw my own hot water. However, now they often tell me that I have to pay $3... for a $.03 cup. Most of the time I speak with the manager or another CM and they'll give it to me. But it's yet another of what seems to be an annoyance that gradually erodes the feeling of DL magic. I feel less like a valued guest and more like a hoodwinked rube.

Also, was this post always on the Disneyland community board? I thought it was on the general Disneyland board.

It was. Looks like the admins moved it. and :-(. Oh well.

 

[mommabo]

I don't think we're too far apart . What I meant is that without free FPs, lines get super long. Then when the situation looks/feel intolerable, Disney suggests a solution... one that comes at a price. They create a problem and then sell you a solution. It feels a bit like a local small-town mechanic going around at night sabotaging alternators... and then having a sale on alternator service the next day. To many, G+ seems preferable to waiting in a two-hour line -- I get that, of course. But to me it feels like guests are being asked to pay for things twice: once at the gate (≈ $150) and then again at the attraction. Now that this has been tolerated, I suspect other things that were once included with admission will be examined for possible exploitation. For example, I bring my own tea to the park. Up until about two years ago, any restaurant at DL would give me a free Styrofoam cup and then I'd draw my own hot water. However, now they often tell me that I have to pay $3... for a $.03 cup. Most of the time I speak with the manager or another CM and they'll give it to me. But it's yet another of what seems to be an annoyance that gradually erodes the feeling of DL magic. I feel less like a valued guest and more like a hoodwinked rube.


It was. Looks like the admins moved it. and :-(. Oh well.

Yes, I suspect we aren’t that far apart either. I agree the removal of the free FP option is most definitely an understandable complaint. I guess I figured it was coming eventually (pandemic may have just hastened the timeline) so I can’t say I was surprised (probably not the word I’m looking for). Plus I’ve never seen Disney corporate ever being part of the magic, I always found that magic in the atmosphere and people who work there.

The pandemic and subsequent reopening has necessitated certain business models to change due to legitimate issues or operating costs and those increases being passed on to the consumer. But more often than not, it’s been an opportunity/excuse for changes based strictly with an eye on profits. Do I think DL falls into the second category? Oh for sure! I find value in G+ so I will on occassion pay for it. If my budget were such as it was when my kids were young, I might think twice or wait longer between visits. Now, will I be paying for a Disney hotel at the rates they are charging, especially when they have limited services “due to the pandemic”? Heck, no! And yes, I’m aware that unlike the current state of FP, I have hotel options across the street and all around the area. But I also firmly believe if Disney could take over all the surrounding hotels and demolish them or slap Mickey on the door and charge a premium they would!! You have to figure that thought has occurred to someone, somewhere, leaving them frustrated not being able to make it happen.

As for being moved to a different DL board, thanks for clearing that up. I thought I was losing my mind or perhaps our discussion had been deemed argumentative and removed. I was confused since I thought we’d been having a rather civil and courteous conversation that I’ve quite enjoyed.

 

[starlite_]

That's exactly what a contrast effect is: something that might seem high or unfair with no context suddenly looks small in comparison to other factors. It's a compliance technique. Was it the only consideration that went into this choice? Unlikely. But I suspect someone raised the idea at some point. And because it doesn't sound so bad in comparison to an overall cost, many people -- or at least enough -- are willing to overlook it. That, in part, is why it's been generally accepted by guests and why Disney will, if you'll pardon the expression, get away with it. It's as if a restaurant tacked on a small "facilities fee" and it seemed so small in comparison to the overall bill that people don't mind it. It's a way to get an additional charge accepted, even if it's not reasonable or fair. Can Disney charge anything they like for access to anything at the park? Of course. This is a business in a capitalist society. But I'm also free to vent my displeasure with it and you're also free to disagree. Perhaps if enough guests had balked at it, Disney may have backed down. But because it seems like a small surcharge, people allow it to pass largely unchallenged

It's just that it seems to me you are blaming the existence of Genie+ & ILL on the ppl who will use it, when we have basically no power to make it go away. Like we are enabling Disney's greedy ways or something. Would I rather free fastpass was still around? For sure. Do I think ILL are a cash grab? Absolutely! But they are not going away regardless of what I think and pretending that guests have any say on it and putting the onus on them/us is kinda hilarious. Because for every guest that doesn't use Genie+ for whatever reason they might have there is another that will, Disney guests are not a limited resource nor a collective where we can all agree to not use it. It's not tolerating or enabling the system, it's working with what's available to make our trip better (regardless of what "better" means for each guest).

It's a paid service which you are free to ignore to your heart's content but don't blame the users xD At the end of the day, not everything Disney does or implements is for everyone. It might not be for you, but it is for someone else and that's ok.

Have you ever seen that Genie+ fastpass video by defunctland? It explains super well why having any type of fastpass works to make lines better for most guests.

 

[WonkaKid]

As for being moved to a different DL board, thanks for clearing that up. I thought I was losing my mind or perhaps our discussion had been deemed argumentative and removed. I was confused since I thought we’d been having a rather civil and courteous conversation that I’ve quite enjoyed.

Yes - seconded .

 

[theluckyrabbit]

...
Also, was this post always on the Disneyland community board? I thought it was on the general Disneyland board.

The main DLR board is supposed to be for posts directly pertaining to trip planning. Anything else may be moved to the DL Community Board. Admin will go through the boards occasionally to clean things up and reorganize any clutter.

 

[mommabo]

The main DLR board is supposed to be for posts directly pertaining to trip planning. Anything else may be moved to the DL Community Board. Admin will go through the boards occasionally to clean things up and reorganize any clutter.

Good to know, thank you. I don’t think I’ve ever visited the DL community board before I enjoy WonkaKid’s photo updates so I’ll be sure to look both places.

 

[poptart90]

Thoroughly enjoyed the respectful discussion on this topic. I’m also a non social media participant (DIS is my singular exception!) and it is because of this content, value and connection -even when opposing views are aired- that I return. Grateful for this community always.

I’d like to add a recent personal experience (right before the Genie launch) which I think may highlight some of the positive aspects of Genie+ for occasional travelers.

DH waited over two hours in line for WebSlingers on our trip over Thanksgiving so our whole fam could experience it for the first time together. In that time, me and the kids waited 30+ minutes for Monsters, had our family’s first lunch at Pym’s, and saw Iron man for the first time greeting at the Avengers Headquarters!! Totally awesome! And totally lacking our husband/father.

It was a week day. I don’t think I can possibly describe how fast I would’ve paid $7 a person to have my DH see the look on our kids faces when they first glimpsed the GIANT pretzel I sat before them…..rather than having him wait apart from us ANOTHER 45 minutes before he texted to join him in line for the pre show.

What was that time worth to me? Yup. Definitely $7 a person. Kind of like what that extra bag fee is every time we travel home from DLR with more junk, uh, souvenirs, than I ever thought we’d come home with in the first place….AGAIN.lol. And totally kidding. DH and I are the real culprits!!

So right, wrong, or indifferent, value will always be subjective. Did we love MP and work it for all it was worth every visit? YES!

Do we love that Genie+ cut off the love-fest with its one-ride-a-day cap? NO!

Do we get why they made the changes they did? YEAH, I GUESS…with the full-on tween eye roll.

My point is, in a world of continual and never ending charges for a family vacation these days (your bag is a half pound overweight, surcharge for more leg room on the airplane, baggage fees, parking fees, pet boarding fees) the one thing I will always choose to pay for is the “PhotoPass of Life”…where either parent or loved one doesn’t have to miss out, even if it means no more extra duffle of souvenirs!!