New Security Measures At The Parks

I think it comes down to one of two things. Those who are aware of the dangers out there and want to keep their family safe and those who do not know anything about the evil that is out there and prefer to not think about their safety and think of the world as one big happy place where nothing ever happens to them.


I am reminded of LTC Dave Grossmans comparison to sheep and sheepdogs......

http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html


I consider more than evil when wanting to keep my family safe. I also think about people who think they know how to handle a gun but don't, people who are hot headed and draw a gun over an unplanned disagreement, people who think it's cool to drink around the world with their gun at their side, and people who are just plain accident prone.
 
I think it comes down to one of two things. Those who are aware of the dangers out there and want to keep their family safe and those who do not know anything about the evil that is out there and prefer to not think about their safety and think of the world as one big happy place where nothing ever happens to them.


I am reminded of LTC Dave Grossmans comparison to sheep and sheepdogs......

http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html
No it doesn't come down to that when it comes to breaking rules. Disney is not public property and has a right to set it's own rules. If you cannot follow all of them, you will be escorted out. Bringing a gun in is clearly against their rules, it's just as bad as sneaking a person in. If you wouldn't break one rule, you shouldn't break any. Would that same person light up a cigarette on the monorail, probably not but yet they think they have a right to break a different rule :( The rules are there for reasons, not for guests to pick and choose which they will follow. LEO above all should respect that. If one doesn't feel safe to the point they must carry to protect their families and break the rules, then don't go if you fear it that much. It simply amazes me how people feel thst they can do as they please regardless of rules and regulations. ....that is why society is the way it is ...sad
 
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No it doesn't come down to that when it comes to breaking rules. Disney is not public property and has a right to set it's own rules. If you cannot follow all of them, you will be escorted out. Bringing a gun in is clearly against their rules, it's just as bad as sneaking a person in. If you wouldn't break one rule, you shouldn't break any. Would that same person light up a cigarette on the monorail, probably not but yet they think they have a right to break a different rule :( The rules are there for reasons, not for guests to pick and choose which they will follow. LEO above all should respect that. If one doesn't feel safe to the point they must carry to protect their families and break the rules, then don't go if you fear it that much. It simply amazes me how people feel thst they can do as they please regardless of rules and regulations. ....that is why society is the way it is ...sad



Its even sadder when people refuse to believe the danger is out there and would rather become the world monitor touting 'rules'. It is incumbent on every person to decide whats important for them and their families. Just remember this has been going on for decades now, and nobody had any complaints. This forum only serves as a medium for people to complain about something that never affected them.

These same people have gone faster than the speed limit (broke the rules) stopped in front of a store to pick up or drop someone off even though the sign prohibits it (broke the rules), called in to work sick when they were not (broke the rules )... etc.

Life is about choices. Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody follows every "rule" out there. Somewhere along the line they made a decision to 'break' a rule. It really did not affect anyone so they felt it was ok. Thats the way the world is, and rather than being high and mighty and judging others, just let it go as a decision someone else made that does not affect you. Especially when you dont even know about it.
 
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I totally agree. I think disbounding, dressing in dresses with designs, wearing shirts that look like stormtroopers will all be fine. But, as a side note, what's up with the clown-y face Tardis. Yikes! (Sorry if that is you! It just took me by, um, surprise?) The other dress is adorable though!
Honestly, I can't imagine print dresses would count!

I'm pretty sure it's going to work something like this...

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These same people have gone faster than the speed limit (broke the rules) stopped in front of a store to pick up or drop someone off even though the sign prohibits it (broke the rules), called in to work sick when they were not (broke the rules )... etc.
I used to obey the speed limit as strictly as possible, until I read a decent article on how variations in speed between drivers was a bigger risk factor than speed alone. I still do obey limits on surface roads, where at least in my area on surface roads (but apparently not limited access roads), posted speed limits are required to be close to the actual average speeds.

But I don't stop in no stopping areas and never called in sick when I wasn't.

The problem I have with the "guns for self defense" issue is that I'm just not seeing the data or analysis. I've seen collections of anecdotal evidence on both sides - and that's fine, as far as it goes. I even remember a story from an uncle who lived in Greenwich Village and who was able to frighten off at least one robber with his gun. The same uncle, when he came to visit, once stored his gun in the top drawer of my dresser (or maybe it was my brother's dresser) - something that would be considered horribly irresponsible today, but I was a pretty trustworthy kid with no interest in guns, nor in breaking rules. The point here is that I believe the theory that guns can be protective, because I have it from a first-hand source that's trustworthy to me (but not to you).

What I haven't seen is the rational analysis that takes into account everything: reasonable use of weapons to prevent crimes; irresponsible use of weapons that cause or at least risk injury to innocents when trying to prevent crime without proper training; accidental injuries or deaths; and so on. I've a vague recollection of some articles that at least tried to take an honest, statistical approach, but nothing that felt comprehensive.

That leaves me looking at raw risk data - things like how many guests at WDW have been killed or injured by guns. Is that number 0? Big? Maybe I'm ignorant of all the things that have happened there, but I just don't see enough danger within the park boundaries to even justify entertaining the discussion of bringing guns into the park in violation of rules.

And it's not merely blind allegiance to rules. You want to carry a weapon in the dangerous parts of Chicago, in violation of the law - I'm not going to jump up and down and say you're being unreasonable. WDW, I'm going to ask for much stronger data than I've seen so far.
 
Folks, please be careful and let's not get into a gun debate here.

Whether you believe in carrying a gun or not and for whatever reasons you have or don't have, they are not allowed at certain places, including Walt Disney World, and that's the way it goes. Like so many of you have said, it's private property and they can [and will] do whatever they want.
 
As the victim of a carjacking by thugs with (simulated) firearms in NYC I can tell you first hand that calling NYC one of the safest large cities in the world is a tourist advertisement, not reality. ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/fbi-crime-stats-mixed-for_n_3439629.html
So I read that article, and notwithstanding the attention grabbing headline, it pretty much confirms the description of NYC as one of the safest large cities in the world. It's the lowest in the US when looking at violent + property crimes, and second lowest murder rate. Only when looking at violent crimes without property crimes (i.e., homicide, rape, assault) does it appear to be in the middle, and even there, the article neglected to give a ranking. It's certainly much closer to San Antonio's best rating than it is to Philadelphia's worst.

What the article shows is that "safest" can be manipulated by picking and choosing your statistics (no surprise there), but nevertheless, looking at all the statistics they give (which aren't nearly enough), NYC comes across as being a pretty safe city.
 
I used to obey the speed limit as strictly as possible, until I read a decent article on how variations in speed between drivers was a bigger risk factor than speed alone. I still do obey limits on surface roads, where at least in my area on surface roads (but apparently not limited access roads), posted speed limits are required to be close to the actual average speeds.

But I don't stop in no stopping areas and never called in sick when I wasn't.

The problem I have with the "guns for self defense" issue is that I'm just not seeing the data or analysis. I've seen collections of anecdotal evidence on both sides - and that's fine, as far as it goes. I even remember a story from an uncle who lived in Greenwich Village and who was able to frighten off at least one robber with his gun. The same uncle, when he came to visit, once stored his gun in the top drawer of my dresser (or maybe it was my brother's dresser) - something that would be considered horribly irresponsible today, but I was a pretty trustworthy kid with no interest in guns, nor in breaking rules. The point here is that I believe the theory that guns can be protective, because I have it from a first-hand source that's trustworthy to me (but not to you).

What I haven't seen is the rational analysis that takes into account everything: reasonable use of weapons to prevent crimes; irresponsible use of weapons that cause or at least risk injury to innocents when trying to prevent crime without proper training; accidental injuries or deaths; and so on. I've a vague recollection of some articles that at least tried to take an honest, statistical approach, but nothing that felt comprehensive.

That leaves me looking at raw risk data - things like how many guests at WDW have been killed or injured by guns. Is that number 0? Big? Maybe I'm ignorant of all the things that have happened there, but I just don't see enough danger within the park boundaries to even justify entertaining the discussion of bringing guns into the park in violation of rules.

And it's not merely blind allegiance to rules. You want to carry a weapon in the dangerous parts of Chicago, in violation of the law - I'm not going to jump up and down and say you're being unreasonable. WDW, I'm going to ask for much stronger data than I've seen so far.



The thing people are mainly talking about is not the past history of something happening at WDW, it is the fact it is a tempting soft target that has already been targeted by terrorists.
 
I totally agree. I think disbounding, dressing in dresses with designs, wearing shirts that look like stormtroopers will all be fine. But, as a side note, what's up with the clown-y face Tardis. Yikes! (Sorry if that is you! It just took me by, um, surprise?) The other dress is adorable though!

No, it's not me. :laughing: I have no idea what's up with the Harlequin make up either!
 
Attended my home town team's final home game today and they somehow were able to get 50,000 people into their seats in a reasonable amount of time while running all of them through metal detectors or wanding them; if the NFL can do it in a reasonable amount of time, then Disney should be able to also. Actually the process got faster as the season progressed as people became accustomed to it. While it was taking maybe 20 minutes extra to get in at the beginning of the year; it was down to about 10 today.
 
This thread is opened again and moved the the community subforum. Please keep it friendly and stick to DIS posting guidelines.
 
Attended my home town team's final home game today and they somehow were able to get 50,000 people into their seats in a reasonable amount of time while running all of them through metal detectors or wanding them; if the NFL can do it in a reasonable amount of time, then Disney should be able to also. Actually the process got faster as the season progressed as people became accustomed to it. While it was taking maybe 20 minutes extra to get in at the beginning of the year; it was down to about 10 today.



50,000 is nothing compared to the crowds at Disney. The NFL has multiple entrances and does not have the same huge influx right at opening.......

What exactly was the reasonable amount of time?
 
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Any place you make a gun free zone creates a soft target. In other words a place more likely to be targeted. No, nobody needs a gun at a Disney park. But with that everyone should be scanned. If they have to put up 20-30 scanners this is the only way those who mean us harm will feel the risk is not worth the effort.
 

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