New Monorail Fleet Ordered?

[gsimpson]

The 20 year comment is very telling and most attractions built for the large theme parks have a 20 year life. What makes that important is liability, when you design the attraction or vehicle you have to "prove" through sound engineering practices that your design is safe (typically achieving a specific SIL or Performance Level rating depending on which standard your using). You do all of your math based on the lifetime and that heavily goes into your material uses for fatigue, stress, etc. A big part of the math relates "undetectable failures" which typically aren't technical but material and things like stress microscopic fractures, metal becoming brittle, etc. Once you surpass the planned life you can not longer mathematically prove it is safe, at that point if there is an accident your liability is massively increased because you can't go back to engineering to prove you tried to make it safe, the ambulance chaser can claim you were willfully negligent. Additionally the manufacturer is now off the hook because you went past their design statement of work. Of course this is true ONLY if the monorails are past their design life, and I don't think we know that. On the subject of regenerative braking for energy, in today's transit world you don't need a third rail, the "recovered" power is sent by on the same rail that provides the power. Typically the capacitor banks are in the traction power substations. 100% of Phoenix's light rail system makes extensive use of this technology and Dallas is adopting it. Disney would be smart to replace the traction power substations anyway, they are currently using 6-pulse SCR power stations which have lousy power factor, if they switched to a 12-pulse thyristor system they would easily knock 40% off their usage (look at Phoenix, Dallas, or Denver to verify this).

 

[rteetz]

Things seem to be going in the right direction. We might see something new by the 50th.

 

[hertamaniac]

Things seem to be going in the right direction. We might see something new by the 50th.

Do you think it's possible that new concrete rails will start over the next decade or so? I forget what the safe and useful life is for the beam/columns and I'm already thinking of the 20 year design life Gurr stated for the monorails.

 

[rteetz]

Do you think it's possible that new concrete rails will start over the next decade or so? I forget what the safe and useful life is for the beam/columns and I'm already thinking of the 20 year design life Gurr stated for the monorails.

I’ve heard nothing regarding rebuilding beams. I know the MK beams are still in pretty good shape.

 

[hertamaniac]

I’ve heard nothing regarding rebuilding beams. I know the MK beams are still in pretty good shape.

I read from an unqualified source, that the concrete beams at WDW are probably near half-life. I was just thinking of coordinating the next (not the one's potentially for the 50th) as a good intercept point to inject new columns/beams. I know it's a looooooooong way out, but most business plans have a 10 year model. Disney may have plans well beyond 10.

 

[George4]

I'd be curious if there is any issue with the posts that support the beams, and whether or not they are having any issues with sinking. I know the appearance doesn't matter for the strength, but they look horrible at this point (stained with black residue). I love the monorails, and would honestly love to see them expanded (I know, I'm not trying to open up that maelstrom), but they don't seem to be holding up that well. Is that mostly Disney letting them go, or are we approaching the end of their life, likely to not see them rebuilt?

 

[umichigan10]

I'd be curious if there is any issue with the posts that support the beams, and whether or not they are having any issues with sinking. I know the appearance doesn't matter for the strength, but they look horrible at this point (stained with black residue). I love the monorails, and would honestly love to see them expanded (I know, I'm not trying to open up that maelstrom), but they don't seem to be holding up that well. Is that mostly Disney letting them go, or are we approaching the end of their life, likely to not see them rebuilt?

Do you mean the beam supports physically sinking?

I read a book about the WDW construction and they put 2-3 footers down where necessary to insure the supports were held up by bedrock. So sinkage of the actual beams shouldn’t be a problem.

Now the deterioration of the track? Could be an issue but I’m also not sure what the expected lifespan on those are

 

[rteetz]

I'd be curious if there is any issue with the posts that support the beams, and whether or not they are having any issues with sinking. I know the appearance doesn't matter for the strength, but they look horrible at this point (stained with black residue). I love the monorails, and would honestly love to see them expanded (I know, I'm not trying to open up that maelstrom), but they don't seem to be holding up that well. Is that mostly Disney letting them go, or are we approaching the end of their life, likely to not see them rebuilt?

The beams are fine. The MK lines are in better condition than the Epcot ones but still suitable for use. They do clean up the mold and dirt that stains the beams every once in a while.

 

[hertamaniac]

I'd be curious if there is any issue with the posts that support the beams, and whether or not they are having any issues with sinking. I know the appearance doesn't matter for the strength, but they look horrible at this point (stained with black residue). I love the monorails, and would honestly love to see them expanded (I know, I'm not trying to open up that maelstrom), but they don't seem to be holding up that well. Is that mostly Disney letting them go, or are we approaching the end of their life, likely to not see them rebuilt?

Well, I can tell you that I did notice one of the beam supports has what I'll call extra horizontal strapping. I saw one on beam (170-178 I believe) at EPCOT's parking lot. It caught my eye as it was an anomaly; I am not sure it is tied to a structural issue or something else, but made me curious.

 

[Andrew015]

I'd be curious if there is any issue with the posts that support the beams, and whether or not they are having any issues with sinking. I know the appearance doesn't matter for the strength, but they look horrible at this point (stained with black residue). I love the monorails, and would honestly love to see them expanded (I know, I'm not trying to open up that maelstrom), but they don't seem to be holding up that well. Is that mostly Disney letting them go, or are we approaching the end of their life, likely to not see them rebuilt?

The "black residue" is most likely mold which has zero impact on functionality. The beams/supports are not sinking (if they were, that could be catastrophic). These lines have been up for decades and are probably not even approaching their half-life. An incredible engineering feet to say the least.

 

[rteetz]

The "black residue" is most likely mold which has zero impact on functionality. The beams/supports are not sinking (if they were, that could be catastrophic). These lines have been up for decades and are probably not even approaching their half-life. An incredible engineering feet to say the least.

Exactly

 

[hertamaniac]

The "black residue" is most likely mold which has zero impact on functionality.

I see it that it could also be the guide tires laying down a line along both sides of the beams.

 

[joelkfla]

I see it that it could also be the guide tires laying down a line along both sides of the beams.

True for the beams, but the OP was talking about the posts, or pylons, which I think is pretty much all mold and the like.

 

[hertamaniac]

True for the beams, but the OP was talking about the posts, or pylons, which I think is pretty much all mold and the like.

I knew that, but expanded the point to discoloration on the general monorail system.

 

[fla4fun]

True for the beams, but the OP was talking about the posts, or pylons, which I think is pretty much all mold and the like.

Fighting mold on structures in Florida is a never ending battle. We have a white stucco house with a white tile roof. It requires frequent pressure washing to keep clean. They could be cleaning part of it every day and by the time they got back to the beginning it would look like it hadn’t been touched in years.

 

[PACVII]

I did see recently they added some kind of a post connected to the support below that looks to be in a position to be some kind of a signal or a way to confirm the location on the manorial on the line. Just started seeing these so not sure when they added them or what they are used for

 

[mamaofsix]

Didn't feel like reading through this entire thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned:

It is concerning to me that they chose Bombardier to build the monorail vehicles. I am Canadian and Bombardier has a really bad rap here in Ontario. There are several projects in Toronto and other cities that have their tracks completely built and have been waiting YEARS for the Bombardier vehicles to arrive. The company is that far behind in terms of backlogged orders. I'm sure Disney would have been aware of this when they chose which company to deal with. Makes me wonder why they still went with them. Or will Bombardier put all of their other backlogged orders on hold even further to cater to Disney?

Here's an article about Bombardier in my home city. The fleet was to arrive in 2016, and our tracks are STILL sitting empty, 2 years later...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitc...-finish-waterloo-region-s-lrt-order-1.4623798

And an article about what's happening in Toronto, about a streetcar 'Plan B' after so many Bombardier delivery deadlines were missed in the past several years:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tr...s-plan-b-after-delays-to-streetcar-order.html

 

[beer dave]

Didn't feel like reading through this entire thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned:

It is concerning to me that they chose Bombardier to build the monorail vehicles. I am Canadian and Bombardier has a really bad rap here in Ontario. There are several projects in Toronto and other cities that have their tracks completely built and have been waiting YEARS for the Bombardier vehicles to arrive. The company is that far behind in terms of backlogged orders. I'm sure Disney would have been aware of this when they chose which company to deal with. Makes me wonder why they still went with them. Or will Bombardier put all of their other backlogged orders on hold even further to cater to Disney?

Here's an article about Bombardier in my home city. The fleet was to arrive in 2016, and our tracks are STILL sitting empty, 2 years later...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitc...-finish-waterloo-region-s-lrt-order-1.4623798

And an article about what's happening in Toronto, about a streetcar 'Plan B' after so many Bombardier delivery deadlines were missed in the past several years:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tr...s-plan-b-after-delays-to-streetcar-order.html

I would wager a lot of it has to do with fitting the train to the existing beams.....

 

[RRB]

I would say that Disney did their diligence and will have contract with whomever they have selected with a penalty clause for non performing.

 

[rteetz]

Didn't feel like reading through this entire thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned:

It is concerning to me that they chose Bombardier to build the monorail vehicles. I am Canadian and Bombardier has a really bad rap here in Ontario. There are several projects in Toronto and other cities that have their tracks completely built and have been waiting YEARS for the Bombardier vehicles to arrive. The company is that far behind in terms of backlogged orders. I'm sure Disney would have been aware of this when they chose which company to deal with. Makes me wonder why they still went with them. Or will Bombardier put all of their other backlogged orders on hold even further to cater to Disney?

Here's an article about Bombardier in my home city. The fleet was to arrive in 2016, and our tracks are STILL sitting empty, 2 years later...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitc...-finish-waterloo-region-s-lrt-order-1.4623798

And an article about what's happening in Toronto, about a streetcar 'Plan B' after so many Bombardier delivery deadlines were missed in the past several years:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tr...s-plan-b-after-delays-to-streetcar-order.html

It is true Bombardier isn’t the best but Bombardier has a relationship with Disney as they built the current trains.