Leave Him Alone!

[Distriv]

It seems that everyone is bashing Eisner all the time. Some people say its his fault the stock is down, well heres a news flash! MOST COMPANIES STOCK IS DOWN! Why dont you back off, hes only one man, he doesnt make all the desicions!

 

[Jeff in BigD]

Yes, he's only one man but he's fired anyone who would make an intelligent decision & that could've helped him out of this quicksand he's in. For that, yes, the blame falls squarely on his shoulders.

The problem with the Disney stock being down is that even when stocks were up, Disney's was going down.

I highly recommend reading the articles from the media that others have posted. It might be enlightening.

 

[wdw4us2]

Why?

Lisa

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I have been reading all the threads here but have yet to respond.

I think many folks here are too negative. We have no idea what the company's strategy is, so why are people trying to second guess all the moves?

I have no idea if Eisner is the right guy or not, but I would think he must know a little something more about running the company than I do.

I for one, don't think the sky is falling.

 

[HB2K]

If Disney's business was down at the same time when all of their competitors were struggling, then I would agree with you that the cause of the stock drop was the economy.

But it's not the economy that is causing Disney's woes.

It's their management. Need proof?


Movies:

Any success Lilo & Stitch has had will be off set by the losses from the stinkers (Reign of Fire, Country Bears, etc). Even Lilo has been seen as a modest success....

Meanwhile there are success stories from all over Hollywood. Record breaking box office numbers. Family films such as Ice Age & Stuart Little 2 have been success stories....Adult movies such as MIB2, Spiderman, Star Wars, Austin Powers 3, etc....all with huge box office numbers.

And tihs doesn't take into account last years beating....Shrek, Harry Potter, Monsters (Disney had nothing to do with it other than putting their name on it) all had HUGE successes....meanwhile Disney put out Recess, Atlantis and others which took MAJOR beatings.

If the economy is so bad, why is the movie theater parking lot filled while Disney movies are playing in empty theaters? Who's fault is that?

Theme Parks & Resorts:

Disney crys about "flat" attendance numbers as a justification for closing hotels, making cutbacks to the guest experince, and forget any type of new attractions on the horizon.

MEANWHILE....

Universal Studio execs glow about their 90%+ occupancy rates, announce new attractions (Shrek-vision, Jimmy Neutron) and hint about more to come (New IOA attraction, possible replacement for Kong).

If the economy was so bad, why aren't Universal's hotels experincing "flat" attendance numbers?

Networks:

ABC struggles to come up with a hit, yet other networks seem to pump one out after another. No other network is a drag on it's corperate parent as much as ABC is on Disney.

Who's fault is all of this mess?

Ei$ner.

 

[MikePezz]

We have no idea what the company's strategy is

That is what many people see as the problem: What IS the firm's strategy? "Synergy"? The main focus used to be on quality, staying one step ahead of the competition. What IS the strategy now?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Originally posted by HB2K
If Disney's business was down at the same time when all of their competitors were struggling, then I would agree with you that the cause of the stock drop was the economy.

But it's not the economy that is causing Disney's woes.

It's their management. Need proof?


Movies:

Any success Lilo & Stitch has had will be off set by the losses from the stinkers (Reign of Fire, Country Bears, etc). Even Lilo has been seen as a modest success....

Meanwhile there are success stories from all over Hollywood. Record breaking box office numbers. Family films such as Ice Age & Stuart Little 2 have been success stories....Adult movies such as MIB2, Spiderman, Star Wars, Austin Powers 3, etc....all with huge box office numbers.

And tihs doesn't take into account last years beating....Shrek, Harry Potter, Monsters (Disney had nothing to do with it other than putting their name on it) all had HUGE successes....meanwhile Disney put out Recess, Atlantis and others which took MAJOR beatings.

If the economy is so bad, why is the movie theater parking lot filled while Disney movies are playing in empty theaters? Who's fault is that?

Theme Parks & Resorts:

Disney crys about "flat" attendance numbers as a justification for closing hotels, making cutbacks to the guest experince, and forget any type of new attractions on the horizon.

MEANWHILE....

Universal Studio execs glow about their 90%+ occupancy rates, announce new attractions (Shrek-vision, Jimmy Neutron) and hint about more to come (New IOA attraction, possible replacement for Kong).

If the economy was so bad, why aren't Universal's hotels experincing "flat" attendance numbers?

Networks:

ABC struggles to come up with a hit, yet other networks seem to pump one out after another. No other network is a drag on it's corperate parent as much as ABC is on Disney.

Who's fault is all of this mess?

Ei$ner.

Again, I am not really defending Eisner here, but...
doesn't Disney have a movie in the top few right now? I think it is called Signs (or something like that).

Also, I believe I read that Vivendi (I think that's it) as well as AOL/Time Warner are in worse financial shape than Disney. In short, to say "look at how good they do it", would be foolish.

 

[WDWHound]

No, he doesn't make all the decisions, but he has systematically replaced or sidelined all the people who historically made good decisions and replaced them with people who beleive in his philosophy of cost cutting over quality. He also does tend to micro manage. Frim what I hear, the dismantling of imagineering and animaton departments can be traced to Mr Eisners Direct orders.

You are correct, lots of other campany's stocks are down right now as well. However, most of the complaints about Eisner you see here have been being voiced by us for years, long before the stock went down. The stock drop is just the symptom that caused wall streat to notice a disease that Disney has had for a long time.

No one can denie that most other theme parks are seeing a drop in attendance at a time when all of it competitors are seeing an increase in attendance. Why is this happing? Becuase Disney is offering nothing new, closing existing attractions, shortening hours and removing perks like early entry. They charge more and offer less, that is not a formula for success. Yes other parks have had some cut backs, but nothing that comes close to matchingwhat Disney has done.

But are the parks problem Eisners fault? Yes, I'm afraid they are. The philosophy of charging more and offdering less can be traced to direct orders from Eisner. Read the speaches he has made over the past few years. Starting about 3 years ago he was practically bragging about it. He also hired Paul Pressler to run the parks. What an unmitagated disater that has been. And don't even getting me started about his sidelining of Marty Sklar as the head of imagineering.

Eisner's took a direct hand in ABC. It was a very successful businees till the day he started dorking with it. Most recently, he has all but shut down animation (and yes, that was his decision, not someone elses). he also ordered the "secret lab" computer animation deptartment shut down becuase Dinosaur was such a dog. Everyone else in the industry saw the promise of computer animation. Instead, Eisner mistook failer caused by a bad script as a sign that computer animated films wouldn't sell. Now Disney is stuck have to plead with Picar,(who, by the way, Eisner has royally ticked off by trying to change the terms of their parternership agreement to squeeze a free movie out of them).

I'm sorry, but it is Eisner's fault and I loved the old Disney products too much too "leave him alone". The only thing keeping the parks alive right now is the strength of what was done before 1995 (when Eisner had partners who could control him). The only thing that will keep them around in the future is a return to the philosophy that created that strength, and history has shown the Eisner has abandonded that philosophy.

History show quite clearly that Eisner has earned all the critisism he is now receiving. We should not leave him alone, he should leave.

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by Maistre Gracey

Again, I am not really defending Eisner here, but...
doesn't Disney have a movie in the top few right now? I think it is called Signs (or something like that).

Also, I believe I read that Vivendi (I think that's it) as well as AOL/Time Warner are in worse financial shape than Disney. In short, to say "look at how good they do it", would be foolish.

Yup, Lilo and Stich ans signs are doing great. but Reign of Fire and Country Bairs tanked. Now, lets look at last year. They had one modest hit (remember, Pixar fils are not made buy Disney) in the form of the excellent Princess Diarys. They also had Scarey Movie 2 (bomb), Atlantis (Bomb), Pearl Harbor (atomic force bomb!). Check the accounting. The movie division has not cleared a profit for a while now.

As for Vivedni being in trouble, you bet they are, but it isn't their parks fault. IOA is still paying its costs off (it takes a long time for a quality park to start returning on its investment), but it is doing very well, especially in this economy. Vivendis trouble is that they over extended into too many markets and got caught with their pants down. Disney did this do, but a least Vivedni knows better than to water down its products as a response.

 

[Peter Pirate]

I have already expressed my displeasure with what I've seen from Eisner's recent decisions but some of you are once again taking it too far.

HBK says Ice Age is a hit & Lilo & Stitch is modest? Check the numbers again. As AV would say when talking about quality, which of these two movies will people still be watching in 10 years?

Atlantis bombed, but PH made money despite the fact that is considered a bomb. Monsters was a huge hit and yes Disney does get credit for it. Eisner made the agreement with Pixar, Disney made the bucks, it counts as a plus on the Disney/Eisner ledger. It also seems you've left out Spy Kids and The Rookie on the Diseny plus side. Disney's movies finished 2 or 3 last year if I'm not mistaken...A good finish for any company except Disney.

Now the theme parks...OK Disney is down (a little) but who's up for sale? Sure the US/IOA Hotels are up but is overall park attndence? Which Company's stock is in the deepest trouble? Why is a fully completed, well themed, exciting brand spnking new park unable to cover its debt?

Disney certainly has made some huge blunders latley (not really finishing DCA prticularily) but it is unwise to compare them to the trainwreck that is US/IOA...Although you may be able to take solace as they may become Disney Parks very soon...

 

[lrodk]

It seems that everyone is bashing Eisner all the time. Some people say its his fault the stock is down, well heres a news flash! MOST COMPANIES STOCK IS DOWN!

You are right when you say that most stocks are down. However, I cannot think of a single large cap Fortune 500 company that has their stock trading today at levels not seen in over 7 years(this excludes companies that have filed for bankrupcy). Obviously there's much more going on here than mere economics. The recession hasn't helped anyone, that's for sure. But Disney stock has been sliding steadily since @ mid-2000, and basically hadn't made any advances since earlly1998, when we were at the peak of a Bull market. This more than anything is what convinced me to sell all of my Disney shares in early 2000. The fact that they weren't prospering in the best of times was a definite red-flag warning. We are now starting to witness the middle of this unraveling process, which started back in 1998. Before it's said and done, things will get( if you can even imagine it) a whole lot worse, especially since it seems that the captain(Eisner) is more than willing to go down with the ship.

Why dont you back off, hes only one man, he doesnt make all the desicions!

Eisner is well known for his hands-on micro-management style, which has been working overtime since Frank Wells' passing and Jeffrey Katzenberg's departure. Because of this well known fact, I think that we can all agree that he makes all of the important decisions. And the ones he doesn't are made by the executives that he hand picks. In my book, that makes him accountable for both the good and the bad.

 

[Peter Pirate]

...especially since it seems the captain (Eisner) is willing to go down with the ship.

The "captain", geez for a minute I thought you were talking about me!!!

 

[Galahad]

Strickly on the stock side, when DIS was trading high and was at 60 to 80 times earnings, how was that a good thing? No stock can maintain that for long. It is still trading at 25 to 30 times earnings. If the typical target is 15 to 17 times earnings, the stock is still overpriced. Earnings indeed have to come up, but the stock price has been much higher under Eisner's watch and much more over valued than it is now.

On the actual business side.....the rubber is meeting the road. If Eisner doesn't "come to Jesus" soon, he probably needs to look at moving on.

 

[wdwfreak]

Originally posted by HB2K
MEANWHILE....

Universal Studio execs glow about their 90%+ occupancy rates

Is it really that hard hard to have 90% occupancy when you only have three hotels?

 

[manning]

The things said negatively about Eisner. I would like to say something, But as usual you have beat me to it.

The displeasures of some of the directors towards has become public. That alone gives you a clue as to how bad things are getting. Spin is going to down play it. But one thing you don't want to happen is this getting public. Roy Disney is the biggest individual stock holder (little over 17 million shares) and he is not happy. Some of the institutions are giving signals that something has to be done.

Read the thread "You Can't Cheat Quality". I pointed out the date that letter was written. IT WAS BEFORE 9-11.

Here is the link to that letter. Please read it. It is very enlightening!!

http://www.fool.com/news/foth/2001/foth010626.htm

 

[manning]

wdwfreak, in that case perhaps Disney miscalculated and built too many hotels!!!!!

 

[DaveO]

I really do not understand where folks get there stats.

A comment was made that 'other parks' (I assume IOA/US) are not making the same cuts.

WRONG !!!

When I was there in Dec the same cuts were being made if not more. I went to both parks and saw all 'the cuts'. IOA 'cut' early entry for multi day guests, 75% of the attractions did not open until late morning, resteraunts closed ......

Also looking at current hours they are the same (keeping in mind Disney usually ADDS hours due to increased demand. I have NEVER seen/heard IOA/US do this. Disney did that when I was there IOA/US did not.

I only mention IOA/US beacuse people compare the two in validation if Disney going downhill. The fact is that US/IOA does not have a micrscope on everything they do and every decision that is made.

Also Disney DOES have E tickets in the pipeline - MISSION:Space being one - also the opened the the past few years - Test Track and RnR Coaster. Also the new 'Mickey' Show in MK (D Ticket). All of AK.

Now maybe they are not creating them fast enough but the statement they are not adding attractions is WRONG.

My only point is that folks need to take these post with a grain of salt and actually look at the data to back them up. I am not saying Disney has not made any mistakes (I think they have) but some of the statements that the doomsdayers throw out there are just plain wrong and inaccurate.

Whether folks like it or not businees is cyclical like the economy. Recessions will ALWAYS come around. A business will ALWAYS have its downturn. What makes a comapny great is how they turn things around when things are not going good. This takes time. I think the jury is still out on Disney. If we are still seeing these threads in two years then I might be a doomsdayer as well. Maybe Eisner can do it again - maybe not. Maybe he will be booted. We will see.

Also some of the memorys of the 'Good ole days' that were so great are a little off as well.


Dave O.

 

[msdis]

I think part of the problem is as fast as the momentum went up the hill, is has snowballed down the hill with the same momentum.

The growth and great team Disney had in the early to mid 90's did nothing but help this company prosper.
Since about '98 there has been a downward spiral with a lot of bad moves for Disney (the loss of good people and the HUGH payoffs that has caused, ABC-not a hugh money maker, the sports teams, the ecomony pre and post 9/11, on and on and on..................

Who's to blame and how to fix it.............I don't know.
But watching the mouse die a slow death is very sad!!!!!!
I hope they fix it soon

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Originally posted by msdis
Who's to blame and how to fix it.............I don't know.
But watching the mouse die a slow death is very sad!!!!!!
I hope they fix it soon

C'mon guys! This is just a tad of exageration don't you think? Hey.....the stock has fallen. The sky is not falling!

Hey, Staggs says the financials are okay, and I have no reason to doubt him.

 

[HB2K]

Originally posted by Maistre Gracey

Again, I am not really defending Eisner here, but...
doesn't Disney have a movie in the top few right now? I think it is called Signs (or something like that).

Also, I believe I read that Vivendi (I think that's it) as well as AOL/Time Warner are in worse financial shape than Disney. In short, to say "look at how good they do it", would be foolish.

Yes Signs may be a big hit, but for every Signs there are three BIG failures. That's the problem.

And yes Vivendi & AOL may also be struggling....but in areas where they DIRECTLY compete with Disney, they are surging.

HBK says Ice Age is a hit & Lilo & Stitch is modest? Check the numbers again. As AV would say when talking about quality, which of these two movies will people still be watching in 10 years?

Has Disney been crowing about it's performance? How much of a success is a movie if it's owner stops talking about it? Fox couldn't wait to throw the ICE AGE commercial out there with the tagline "America's number one movie". Did you see the same for Lilo & Stich? It sucks, but it's true.

Now the theme parks...OK Disney is down (a little) but who's up for sale?

Give it time Pirate....Disney is entering rough waters. You don't know what is going to happen next.

Disney certainly has made some huge blunders latley (not really finishing DCA prticularily) but it is unwise to compare them to the trainwreck that is US/IOA...Although you may be able to take solace as they may become Disney Parks very soon...

Train Wreck? At least they have people coming in and the leader of the parks can't wait to tell you all of the new stuff they're cooking up. What is Disney annoucing? More cutbacks.

Is it really that hard hard to have 90% occupancy when you only have three hotels?

It's a sign they are doing something right? It's funny....Universal keeps building hotels and filling them. Disney keeps closing hotels cause it can't. See a correlation?

Now maybe they are not creating them fast enough but the statement they are not adding attractions is WRONG.

Other than ANOTHER 3D movie, what has Disney announced in the past year? Nothing.

C'mon guys! This is just a tad of exageration don't you think? Hey.....the stock has fallen. The sky is not falling!

Hey, Staggs says the financials are okay, and I have no reason to doubt him.

Yeah, and Aurther Anderson told us Enron was A-OK. Doesn't mean a thing. Disney's core businesses are failing...and combined with the other drags, it's not long before the ship sinks unless the captain or someone else finds a patch.