I am a big mean mom..

[Skywalker]

Well, to literally answer the OP's question "So, am I a meanie?" I would say: Yes. Yes you are. I would say paying for drivers' ed., as well as beginners' and any tests is all part of the expense of parenting a teenager. In fact, I consider it an investment in their future autonomy AND safety. I can understand not paying for certain things as a parent, but, this isn't like buying a brand new fall wardrobe - this is a basic life skill. Pay for your daughter to get her licence and let her practice, practice, practice in your vehicle. It's part of your stewardship of getting her to adulthood. But that is just my opinion. Since you asked.

 

[clori]

I live in a small city next to a bigger city. We have busses in walking distance and subways about two miles away. Schools are 1/2 mile away until high school which is closer to 2 miles though all are on a busline. We just have one car. Driving a car to high school isn't really done by many since there is very very few spaces and you need to get them probably over an hour before school starts.

Driver's ed is required to get a license under the age of 18 and 16 is the first day you can get a permit which is needed for 6 months to get a license. The permit I think was $30 (not sure who paid). Driver's ed classroom is 30 hours which can be taken at 15 years 10 months but no driving until 16 and permitted. Driver's ed also requires 12 hours of driving time, 6 hours of observation, and a 2 hour parent class. Driver's ed is not available at school and the one we used was about average price $650 plus $20 for parent class. Parents also need to sign off on at least 40 hours of driving time.

Insurance is mandatory and a person needs to be insured to legally drive. There are discounts for good student, driver's ed, and being an occasional vs principal driver on a car. Due to price it is hit/miss who can get a license under 18 near me. Some wait simply because they can't afford driver's ed, some since they see no need etc.

We paid for dd to take driver's ed and the fees associated with the license (use of driver's ed car, physical license). DD will not be getting her own car for a bit but is allowed to drive at various times. We went to NYC for Labor Day weekend and dd drove the entire way there by choice etc. She knows due to lack of snow last winter she still needs a bit of help with winter driving but she willingly listens to things like that.

To me living near a city does reduce the need for a car. Dh grew up in Midtown Manhattan so even with a license he knew there was no need for a car while living there. However we like to know that if the kids end up somewhere that driving is more important they have that skill.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

This particular OP strikes me as being pretty strong-minded. I doubt she requires validation from any of us, nor would she make parental decisions by "committee".

Strong minded vs pig headed? The OP was definitely looking for validation asking if she was a meanie. The OP is known for digging in her heels when the tide is against her. Which is fine. I don't parent based on internet polls either; then again, it wouldn't occur to me to poll the web in the first place asking if I was a meanie especially if I felt I was doing the right thing. Kimblebee's questioning the DIS of her decision shows ambiguity on her part.

 

[ronandannette]

Strong minded vs pig headed? The OP was definitely looking for validation asking if she was a meanie. The OP is known for digging in her heels when the tide is against her. Which is fine. I don't parent based on internet polls either; then again, it wouldn't occur to me to poll the web in the first place asking if I was a meanie especially if I felt I was doing the right thing. Kimblebee's questioning the DIS of her decision shows ambiguity on her part.

I don't know - I've asked questions before just to get an interesting topic going. And I've contended for my position when many others disagree. Even against this OP. FTR, my first post to this thread was to say that I did things differently with our DS than the OP was with her DD. But I did so just to contribute to the discussion, not because I thought either of us cared what the other was actually doing. And I honestly didn't read the question "so, am I meanie?" as "please, tell me I'm not a meanie!".

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

I don't know - I've asked questions before just to get an interesting topic going. And I've contended for my position when many others disagree. Even against this OP. FTR, my first post to this thread was to say that I did things differently with our DS than the OP was with her DD. But I did so just to contribute to the discussion, not because I thought either of us cared what the other was actually doing. And I honestly didn't read the question "so, am I meanie?" as "please, tell me I'm not a meanie!".

I don't think more than one or two people actually called the OP a meanie, if that. However, I did say her reply to me was rude. Also, whether or not your read the post a certain way, the OP definitely did ask the DIS "so am I a meanie?".

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Many here (not just OP) seem to think that being a "mean" parent is something to be proud of, and they're looking for a pat on the back. It seems, to me, to imply that they think everyone else indulges their kids but they don't, i.e. That's what makes them mean.

Meh. I don't like or use the term. Everyone is different in how they parent, and a discussion here is such a small piece of that. We can't possibly capture here all the things we do or don't do, and why we make a particular decision. I agree it's interesting to discuss. I also think that a negative title often yields negative responses because people react to it.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Regarding paying for their own expenses-- that's exactly what we have done. DD didn't get a cell phone until she was a senior in HS (and she is paying a portion of the monthly bill) and she didn't get her license until she was in a position where the benefits outweighed the cost. DH and I both paid for our own expenses as teenagers (and had way more responsibility than DD does), but it is certainly not the norm. When we were at the insurance agent's office, DD and I were asking specifics about the expense and mentioned that she was going to be paying for the addition of her car. The agent thought that was great and that DD would learn some valuable life skills, but everyone in the office really made it seem like DD is the ONLY teenager they work with whose parents don't just pay for the entire cost of insurance.

I think the bolded is kind of silly. How, exactly, do THEY know? Our agents might think the same thing (though I can't imagine how they can even have an opinion about it because they have no clue how we pay our bills), but they don't know about a system we have in our household. We have our accounts linked ONE WAY (deposit but no withdrawal privileges) with our kids' accounts so that they can EACH easily deposit money monthly into our account for their portion of the car insurance. Their money goes into the account that pays the insurance. It's not something we ever discussed with our agents, why would we? Lol. I imagine lots of households are like this, too. Some families may do it differently and make their household finances work for them in a different way. Adding a new driver to insurance costs an awful lot. I'm betting there are a lot of families who expect the new driver to help pay, not just for financial reasons, but to help them learn responsibility.

 

[lilia78]

I live in the province next to to you. Here Drivers Ed including 15 hours driving team with the teacher are part of the high school curriculum so there was no cost for that. The actual permit costs $100 for 5 years or $25 a year. You start with a learners permit and the it rolls over to a drivers license. So we paid for that for all 4 kids and we also bought them each a vehicle and some of them second vehicles...lol

 

[goofy4prez]

Speaking as someone who's not even American, you are 100% incorrect. My province has no fault insurance...as has already been pointed out upthread. Thanks for pitching in, though LOL

That's what I get for not reading all of the posts in this thread as well as being presumptuous as to which country you are located in.

 

[Kellykins1218]

Yes, you're a meanie.

 

[tzolkin]

I think the bolded is kind of silly. How, exactly, do THEY know? Our agents might think the same thing (though I can't imagine how they can even have an opinion about it because they have no clue how we pay our bills), but they don't know about a system we have in our household. We have our accounts linked ONE WAY (deposit but no withdrawal privileges) with our kids' accounts so that they can EACH easily deposit money monthly into our account for their portion of the car insurance. Their money goes into the account that pays the insurance. It's not something we ever discussed with our agents, why would we? Lol. I imagine lots of households are like this, too. Some families may do it differently and make their household finances work for them in a different way. Adding a new driver to insurance costs an awful lot. I'm betting there are a lot of families who expect the new driver to help pay, not just for financial reasons, but to help them learn responsibility.

I'm sure they don't know everyone's situation, but for those that they do know about it's apparently the norm for parents to pay for everything up until a certain age.

There have been plenty of posters on this thread who have mentioned that they consider paying for everything until their child is done with college to be "just the natural costs of parenting" so I'm sure there are many parents who casually mention the same thing to their local insurance agent, like "wow, kid's are so expensive once they can drive" or "I'll have tons of extra money once DD graduates college and starts paying her own bills" or whatever.

DH and I do some work in financial planning and have met with a few young married couples whose parents still pay for their car insurance (plus other things) and countless families with teenagers/college students who pay 100% for their kid's expenses. So, certainly not for everyone, but it does seem to be the preferred approach for the majority of families in our area.

It's sort of the same thing as cell phones. I'm sure there are some kids who do not have cell phones, but when the teachers or other people hear that my kids don't they claim that every other kid does and that they thought it was a necessary expense of having children. Certainly not every kid, but it must be the majority to receive those responses.

 

[amberpi]

Fair enough but isn't that what most people do? They start a thread to get confirmation that what they're doing is correct and when told no, they rail against it. Seems like normal behavior to me

Shockingly, I've actually seen other's points sometimes and changed a few behaviors...no one is perfect; get varying opinions and you may well change your own. I've also tried a different way suggested on a board and found it didn't work. I think people do look for different opinions on here. Gut checks are good things.

 

[Pacolovestacos]

Shockingly, I've actually seen other's points sometimes and changed a few behaviors...no one is perfect; get varying opinions and you may well change your own. I've also tried a different way suggested on a board and found it didn't work. I think people do look for different opinions on here. Gut checks are good things.

You must be a rare breed.

 

[firefly_ris]

My children are all little so not there yet. But if I'm remembering correctly, my parents paid for my driver's ed course and the permit/license. I did begin working a part time job when I was 14 so I paid for my own gas and I made monetary contributions to the car insurance. But, my parents did maintain the vehicle (my dad is mechanically minded and does everything himself with the exception of really large or specialized jobs that need special tools) and I didn't pay for that. Once I was in college I was fully responsible for my vehicle including all maintenance and repairs. So I wasn't responsible for more than I could handle money-wise at the time, and I knew I always had a safe vehicle because my dad made sure it was taken care of, but at the same time I was given a small amount of responsibility (the gas and the insurance contribution) in order to help me understand the value of a buck and how to divide my pay check responsibly, which I think was a big help. I still remember sitting down and dividing my money up into various labeled envelopes I kept in a box in my closet, lol.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I wouldn't even consider not paying for it. When my kids have money (through work or gifts or allowance), that's their fun money. Well, my oldest is in college and working and he uses his money for school and the occasional date, etc. I still even pay for his insurance (car and health) and cell phone. I'm used to it and I'd prefer he use his money for school and fun. He's very good with money, though. If I felt he was blowing it, I'd probably make him pay for cell and car insurance. When he is done with college (bachelors), he'll pay it.

 

[Julylady]

Many here (not just OP) seem to think that being a "mean" parent is something to be proud of, and they're looking for a pat on the back. It seems, to me, to imply that they think everyone else indulges their kids but they don't, i.e. That's what makes them mean.

I agree. In fact often when a parent says they are being mean the response is "Then you are doing a good job!" I don't agree with this sentiment at all. Sometimes kids accuse parents of being mean when if fact they are not. But sometimes parents are just being mean! My teenager has a close friend whose Mother is often mean in my opinion. If the girls want to plan an activity for several days in the future, this girl's Mom will not make a decision until an hour or so before. So the girls spend all week planning something like a movie night with snacks and then 1 hour before the event, Susie is told she can't go. I think this is mean. The funny thing is I had a friend like this when I was a kid, too. Often my friend could not spend time with us because she was being punished for some inane infraction of the house rules (for example, making the bed with lumps). I thought her mom was mean then and reflecting 30 years later, I still think she was mean.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I agree. In fact often when a parent says they are being mean the response is "Then you are doing a good job!" I don't agree with this sentiment at all. Sometimes kids accuse parents of being mean when if fact they are not. But sometimes parents are just being mean! My teenager has a close friend whose Mother is often mean in my opinion. If the girls want to plan an activity for several days in the future, this girl's Mom will not make a decision until an hour or so before. So the girls spend all week planning something like a movie night with snacks and then 1 hour before the event, Susie is told she can't go. I think this is mean. The funny thing is I had a friend like this when I was a kid, too. Often my friend could not spend time with us because she was being punished for some inane infraction of the house rules (for example, making the bed with lumps). I thought her mom was mean then and reflecting 30 years later, I still think she was mean.

My DS has a friend with one of those parents! It makes me so sad sometimes to hear DS tell me the latest thing.

But I don't think that about OP. Even though I voted that I am, indeed, paying for drivers' ed, I think it's OK if you've made a plan with your kid that that's something they'll be responsible for. Every family's finances are different.

(Disclaimer: I've only read the first page and a few near the end here. I came in to the thread late.)

 

[Kellydelly]

Around here (michigan) many if not most kids get their permits as soon as they are old enough (just shy of 15). But we want our kids to be able to drive themselves around. I have two kids with permits right now, a very reluctant 17.5 yr old who has every excuse not to get her license or practice driving and a 15.5 yr old who drives almost every day and loves it. My oldest is a senior and had planned to buckle down and drive more and get her license over the summer but she didn't and now she still has to get rides everywhere and she can't help us drive the other kids around. At this rate my middle child will get her license before the eldest. Not cool. I think the sooner you let your daughter get going the better, and of course you should pay for it. JMHO

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Shockingly, I've actually seen other's points sometimes and changed a few behaviors...no one is perfect; get varying opinions and you may well change your own. I've also tried a different way suggested on a board and found it didn't work. I think people do look for different opinions on here. Gut checks are good things.

I suppose I'm also a rare breed. Message boards have changed my opinion on some things, when there was a compelling argument against my way of thinking. OTOH, there are some things that I won't ask for opinions on, because my opinion won't change, regardless of what anyone says. Why start a discussion, if your mind is made up?

As a side note, the most annoying thing about this board is those who want to argue with you, when you haven't started a thread or asked for advice. You post your opinion on a thread, then people forget about the original topic & jump all over your post to tell you your opinion is wrong. That's a waste of everyone's time. IMO, starting a thread for discussion, when you have no intention of changing your mind is also a waste of time.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I am fine with someone starting a thread for discussion even if they've already made up their mind and are just curious about how others do thigns. I'm a bit confused abotu why one starts a thread like that and then doesn't discuss others views really---only keeps defending their own and ignoring what most other people say. The it isn't really a discussion either---just an announcement of what thinks