How do you make DVC make financial sense?

I don’t agree. The points will as a minimum have the same value as renting points. Agreed with only 4 years left it won’t be 120$ Pp
It's very likely at 4 years out buying will be more expensive than renting or staying on cash. The points themselves will have a minimal value and the closing will be a killer. Plus the market forces are likely to drive down the price. Who wants to buy when it takes 2 months to get access, the program ends in 3-4 years and the contracts are likely stripped anyway.
 
It's very likely at 4 years out buying will be more expensive than renting or staying on cash. The points themselves will have a minimal value and the closing will be a killer. Plus the market forces are likely to drive down the price. Who wants to buy when it takes 2 months to get access, the program ends in 3-4 years and the contracts are likely stripped anyway.

Maybe he just meant if you don't want your contract in 20 years, you can rent the points for the final 4 years. I agree you won't sell them easily because of closing costs, but for a low enough price someone MAY want them to "test the system". I'd have to imagine rental will be at least $25/pt in 20 years. Don't know what dues will be.

In 20 years there will be other new resorts and BLT/AKV/SSR, etc will be today's BCV/BWV/BRV but at least there will be a history to help predict what may come down the line for them.
 
I misspoke. I meant to say IF you purchase a new product (CCV) (Poly), in 20 years from now, you would be looking at (2% increase/year x 20 years)
at 40% increase. If in 20 years (at 4% increase/year) you are looking at 80%! Seems reasonable to me.. I don't think DVC will go down anytime
soon..

This is wholly possible but extremely speculative. It's like saying if you buy Apple stock today it is sure to grow at the same rate that it has grown over the past 20 years.
We are coming into a time where technology and analytics are changing theme parks for good, and have no idea how that will impact things in 20-30 years. For all we know, Disney World might not even be much of a destination in 20 years due to virtual reality theme parks being the new hot thing, or the climate in Florida being 10 degrees warmer than it is now, driving away traffic.
I personally have faith that Disney will do well and adjust to the times, but I do not have enough confidence to say that my timeshare purchase will automatically grow in value no matter the outside circumstances.
 
It's very likely at 4 years out buying will be more expensive than renting or staying on cash. The points themselves will have a minimal value and the closing will be a killer. Plus the market forces are likely to drive down the price. Who wants to buy when it takes 2 months to get access, the program ends in 3-4 years and the contracts are likely stripped anyway.

Ofc if the contracts are stripped then they aren’t worth much 4 years out. The closing costs would have to be factored in. OTOH with only 4 years left I assume a lot of people would want to stay at BWV even more people than now making it very difficult to get in.

Assuming a 100 point contract not stripped. Renting is $25pp.

Dues are $10 pp

With 4 years left, I still think it would be worth the rental value of 25-10 x 100 x 4 = $6.000 + closing

Why would anyone pay more than renting?, well if you own the points you control them and have more security of getting a reservation than if you had to rely on others. As long as you still save money on your purchase vs renting direct with Disney then the small premium of closing cost may be worthwhile.

There will ofc be a max cap that the resorts will be worth, but with 4 years left that cap is +- the rental price minus dues.

If the rental price in 20 years are higher or lower then the price would be adjusted accordingly.
 


...(snip).......I personally have faith that Disney will do well and adjust to the times, but I do not have enough confidence to say that my timeshare purchase will automatically grow in value no matter the outside circumstances.
Agree - which is why I am not planning on any resale value at all for my BWV. (Not planning to sell anytime soon). Anything we may get if/when we sell will just be "found" money. We purchased in 1999 and have more than recovered our initial "investment". I hope that will hold true for those purchasing now, but am not betting a single penny on it. :)
 
I'd go a step further in saying in needs to be money they can just throw away if something happens.

I agree with this. You should look at DVC as a sunk cost the moment you buy it. If you close on a DVC contract on Wednesday and then on the next day the economy crashes, your contract might be worth half as much by the time you can sell it. If on the following Monday you go to the doctor and are told to expect triplets - surprise! and a month later lose your job in a RIF and are out of work for a year or more - will you regret buying DVC?

As you own for a period of time, all those risks fade. You begin to recoup your costs with your first trip. By the time you have owned ten years, you've pretty much "paid for" DVC in terms of accomodations (even if you've spent more by owning). But if you end up in a series of unfortunate events during the first year of ownership, you could find yourself really regretting the purchase if the money was not truly disposable.

Is this unlikely, yeah. But not terribly. In my life we've had infertility unexpectedly which costs us thousands, then adopted, tens of thousands more, then a surprise pregnancy immediately after adoption - which gave us two infants in childcare. Had we bought DVC when we married assuming that we'd get pregnant the normal way, we would have regretted not having the money for infertility/adoption/ and then the high costs of two little kids in the first five years of our marriage. When my kids were still toddlers, my husband was given 30 days notice that he'd be RIF'd. That would have sent us over a financial edge - fortunately, he was offered another position in the company with no loss of income. A few years after that, my sister had breast cancer and I took unpaid time off to be with her. Then my brother in law had terminal cancer, and a lot of our income went into supporting him when he could no longer work - my husband's coworkers were donating their vacation to him (the company he worked for allowed that in these sorts of cases). Then after my BIL died, I fell ill and have been home for two years - I just started a part time position with a client - during which time my husband has been an independent consultant - including periods of time where he hasn't had a client for three or four months (he's accepted a salaried position in the last six months). My kids BOTH started college this year (although tuition payments for my youngest don't start until next year since she is dual enrollment with high school and the state pays her tuition right now). Fortunately, for us, we've been really financially lucky - our incomes have been good when we have worked, we've saved and invested extensively (I'm OCD when it comes to financial security which started back with that RIF notice), we got lucky with stock options and two inheritances worth six figures, so none of these setbacks have made us regret buying DVC. But most people who face setbacks like this aren't in a financial position to just roll with it.
 
I agree with this. You should look at DVC as a sunk cost the moment you buy it. If you close on a DVC contract on Wednesday and then on the next day the economy crashes, your contract might be worth half as much by the time you can sell it. If on the following Monday you go to the doctor and are told to expect triplets - surprise! and a month later lose your job in a RIF and are out of work for a year or more - will you regret buying DVC?

As you own for a period of time, all those risks fade. You begin to recoup your costs with your first trip. By the time you have owned ten years, you've pretty much "paid for" DVC in terms of accomodations (even if you've spent more by owning). But if you end up in a series of unfortunate events during the first year of ownership, you could find yourself really regretting the purchase if the money was not truly disposable.

Is this unlikely, yeah. But not terribly. In my life we've had infertility unexpectedly which costs us thousands, then adopted, tens of thousands more, then a surprise pregnancy immediately after adoption - which gave us two infants in childcare. Had we bought DVC when we married assuming that we'd get pregnant the normal way, we would have regretted not having the money for infertility/adoption/ and then the high costs of two little kids in the first five years of our marriage. When my kids were still toddlers, my husband was given 30 days notice that he'd be RIF'd. That would have sent us over a financial edge - fortunately, he was offered another position in the company with no loss of income. A few years after that, my sister had breast cancer and I took unpaid time off to be with her. Then my brother in law had terminal cancer, and a lot of our income went into supporting him when he could no longer work - my husband's coworkers were donating their vacation to him (the company he worked for allowed that in these sorts of cases). Then after my BIL died, I fell ill and have been home for two years - I just started a part time position with a client - during which time my husband has been an independent consultant - including periods of time where he hasn't had a client for three or four months (he's accepted a salaried position in the last six months). My kids BOTH started college this year (although tuition payments for my youngest don't start until next year since she is dual enrollment with high school and the state pays her tuition right now). Fortunately, for us, we've been really financially lucky - our incomes have been good when we have worked, we've saved and invested extensively (I'm OCD when it comes to financial security which started back with that RIF notice), we got lucky with stock options and two inheritances worth six figures, so none of these setbacks have made us regret buying DVC. But most people who face setbacks like this aren't in a financial position to just roll with it.

I think the point a lot of measured, practical DVC members have made and that @crisi illustrates well here is that life happens. It's worth revisiting a great post @miTnosnhoJ made earlier in the thread, where the point is made that DVC is a luxury item, and to that point, should never be looked at as an investment.

DVC is basically a luxury purchase. I agree that we have enjoyed being DVC members, but we are probably spending 2 to 3 times what we were before. But we are also enjoying Disney more.

Rather than focus on cost savings, I would make sure everything else is in good shape before considering DVC.
1) You can pay cash.
2) You are on track to have a fully funded retirement.
3) You are on track to pay for college for the kiddies.
4) You have paid down all consumer debt except possibly your mortgage.
5) If you were to lose your job or have a financial setback, you have an emergency fund.

If you can answer yes to all this, then DVC is something you should consider as an alternative to buying a boat, a house in the mountains, or other luxury purchases that may interest you.

If you come every year and stay at deluxes, then there is some cost savings. If you only come every other year, the cost savings diminishes because of the time value of money. If you like mods or values, then there may be no cost savings for you.

Whether it is one's intention to or not, and despite protestations that one is not advocating that DVC is a good investment, every time it's posted that, "I bought xx years ago and now it's worth xx% more," or someone starts to project growth based on a very small data sampling of the time DVC has been around (not taking into account the value of a dollar over that same period), the information reads as exactly that; a case study on how DVC is a solid place to park your money. And some potential buyer visiting the boards looking for information about how to make financial sense of this will start to get exactly that impression.
 


I think the point a lot of measured, practical DVC members have made and that @crisi illustrates well here is that life happens. It's worth revisiting a great post @miTnosnhoJ made earlier in the thread, where the point is made that DVC is a luxury item, and to that point, should never be looked at as an investment.
Another way to think about it is from a risk management standpoint, the same answers just a different way of looking at it and ultimately one of the main issues anyway.
 
I think the point a lot of measured, practical DVC members have made and that @crisi illustrates well here is that life happens. It's worth revisiting a great post @miTnosnhoJ made earlier in the thread, where the point is made that DVC is a luxury item, and to that point, should never be looked at as an investment.



Whether it is one's intention to or not, and despite protestations that one is not advocating that DVC is a good investment, every time it's posted that, "I bought xx years ago and now it's worth xx% more," or someone starts to project growth based on a very small data sampling of the time DVC has been around (not taking into account the value of a dollar over that same period), the information reads as exactly that; a case study on how DVC is a solid place to park your money. And some potential buyer visiting the boards looking for information about how to make financial sense of this will start to get exactly that impression.

Will agree, that DVC is a luxury purchase. But, IF you own for 8-9-10-15 years, you could sell said DVC and more than likely make a profit. THAT is
the difference that you will see with SOME timeshares.. DVC, Marriott (Probably, don't own Marriott). So, in the above posts, IF you have hardships,
loss of income, etc. You could sell/ or rent out points.

A friend of mine bought SSR 12 years ago. She got divorced, and her daughter had a baby, and other things happened, so she had to sell it
and made a profit 4 years ago. So, I still feel as it is a good timeshare and you more than likely get your $ back after a certain amount of years,
and even make a profit.

Again- it is not an investment, but IF you have the disposable income, and go to Disney/Hawaii/Hilton Head/Vero every year, it is worth it.
 
Again- it is not an investment, but IF you have the disposable income, and go to Disney/Hawaii/Hilton Head/Vero every year, it is worth it.

This I agree with. 2 keys to that statement.
1. You have the disposable income to put into it. If you get your money back, super. If not, okie dokie.
2. You know you are going to be spending it on Disney anyway.

This described me perfectly. I am not attached to deluxe resorts, but am not opposed to them, either. My daughter is so spoiled with Disney World that in a preschool project about summer, she said "In summer. I go to Disney" like it was a given. Last year, we spent $195/night to stay at Carribean Beach. This upcoming summer, I will either be spending the same to stay at BLT, or about $50 more per night to stay in the Polynesian. It may not be the most frugal way to spend my money, but it certainly seems like a good way to upgrade my vacations.
 
This is wholly possible but extremely speculative. It's like saying if you buy Apple stock today it is sure to grow at the same rate that it has grown over the past 20 years.
We are coming into a time where technology and analytics are changing theme parks for good, and have no idea how that will impact things in 20-30 years. For all we know, Disney World might not even be much of a destination in 20 years due to virtual reality theme parks being the new hot thing, or the climate in Florida being 10 degrees warmer than it is now, driving away traffic.
I personally have faith that Disney will do well and adjust to the times, but I do not have enough confidence to say that my timeshare purchase will automatically grow in value no matter the outside circumstances.

Don't think Disney will go into "global warming".. And Disney will always be a place people will want to go. I don't for a second doubt that.. It has
been going strong for 46 years... Why would it "die out" in 10-15 years?? As for your last sentence, I would agree CERTAIN timeshares would not
"grow in value" over time. I would disagree with that IF you own Marriott or Disney. They (IMHO) are the creme-de-la-creme of Timeshares...

Now, in 25 years at 2042 (when my DVC expires), then yes, it would be worth zero and I understand that. But, I feel confident, it you buy now
a new property, and it expires in 2067.. the price/pt will increase...

Just my .02 cents worth...
 
Don't think Disney will go into "global warming".. And Disney will always be a place people will want to go. I don't for a second doubt that.. It has
been going strong for 46 years... Why would it "die out" in 10-15 years?? As for your last sentence, I would agree CERTAIN timeshares would not
"grow in value" over time. I would disagree with that IF you own Marriott or Disney. They (IMHO) are the creme-de-la-creme of Timeshares...

Now, in 25 years at 2042 (when my DVC expires), then yes, it would be worth zero and I understand that. But, I feel confident, it you buy now
a new property, and it expires in 2067.. the price/pt will increase...

Just my .02 cents worth...
IMO that's best case scenario but there are significant risks and chances it won't work that well. It has gone down in the past and it's definitely in a boom and ? whether it might be on a bubble.
 
Don't think Disney will go into "global warming".. And Disney will always be a place people will want to go. I don't for a second doubt that.. It has
been going strong for 46 years... Why would it "die out" in 10-15 years?? As for your last sentence, I would agree CERTAIN timeshares would not
"grow in value" over time. I would disagree with that IF you own Marriott or Disney. They (IMHO) are the creme-de-la-creme of Timeshares...

Now, in 25 years at 2042 (when my DVC expires), then yes, it would be worth zero and I understand that. But, I feel confident, it you buy now
a new property, and it expires in 2067.. the price/pt will increase...

Just my .02 cents worth...

I bought in with a 43 year commitment this past summer, so I also do not feel that this is the case, and as a middle school science teacher, I fully understand the reality of global warming. We have now hit 35 months in a row that have had more record highs than lows in them. I go to Disney in the summer, sweat like crazy, and have a great time doing it. I have trust that this multi-billion dollar corporation knows what they are doing to keep people coming through their front gates, but there are factors that they cannot control. I am happy to bet my discretionary income on them, but would never assume that I can sell what I have bought in at for a guaranteed profit 20 years from now. There are too many factors out of both my and Disney's control to be able to call that a safe assumption. With that said, even if I only do get 20 good years out of this, then my initial buy in will have been well worth it.
 
IMO that's best case scenario but there are significant risks and chances it won't work that well. It has gone down in the past and it's definitely in a boom and ? whether it might be on a bubble.

Where has it (price/pt) gone down in the past? I was looking at *******.com and dvcnews.com and can't seem to find when it went down. On the
charts/graphs I have seen, it has stayed level a few years, but I can't find where it has gone down. When I looked at said charts/graphs, the only
time it was "level" was in 1992-1994, so theoretically it has gone up 23 years!
 
Where has it (price/pt) gone down in the past? I was looking at *******.com and dvcnews.com and can't seem to find when it went down. On the
charts/graphs I have seen, it has stayed level a few years, but I can't find where it has gone down. When I looked at said charts/graphs, the only
time it was "level" was in 1992-1994, so theoretically it has gone up 23 years!

Resale prices have gone down in the past. And some resorts have depreciated quite a bit more than others. Example today is Aulani. If you purchased today at $176/point it’s worth half the purchase price should you need to sell it.

Other resorts have offered developer incentives effectively reducing cpp that may not be reflected in the cost history charts.
 
Where has it (price/pt) gone down in the past? I was looking at *******.com and dvcnews.com and can't seem to find when it went down. On the
charts/graphs I have seen, it has stayed level a few years, but I can't find where it has gone down. When I looked at said charts/graphs, the only
time it was "level" was in 1992-1994, so theoretically it has gone up 23 years!
With both of the economic downturns in the past 20 years, DVC went down significantly for resale prices, which is the comparison since retail has little to do with the $$$ value once you own. As long as the economy is OK it will likely at least hold but eventually something will happen that will negatively affect the $$$ value. IMO one should own to use, not to resell, so as long as one doesn't get forced into a sale, it shouldn't matter. SSR could be had for $40 per point with a little effort. I turned down a VWL 160 pt contract at $42.50 pp offering $40 a point during that time.
 
DVC resale market is really a seller market with prices we've never seen before. People who bough during the last recession could now sell for a profit, sometimes even for twice what they paid for. This is not going to happen to someone buying now. When (not if) the next recession will hit, prices will fall. And people not hit by the recession will be able to score new bargains.
Also, people who bought direct long time ago could sell now for more than they paid for. But since then, DVC has nearly doubled the buy in price, the starting point is much much higher, I don't think someone buying direct now will be able to sell in 20 years for double the price.

But I really didn't think SSR could sell for $100pp or rental prices go up to $17pp, so who knows, I may be wrong again.
 
Given the 17.5% pa I get on renting, assuming that holds up, I can't see myself ever selling.
Great return with next to no effort involved.
This assumes I ever wish to stop using it.
 
Another way to think about it is from a risk management standpoint, the same answers just a different way of looking at it and ultimately one of the main issues anyway.

One of the ways I looked at DVC when I purchased was how many years would it take me to breakeven compared to what I was spending on non-DVC accommodations. Once I hit that breakeven point, I would not care what the value of my points were any more as I would have then recouped my investment so to speak. So the decision was, was I happy to over-pay for accommodations for those early years so that I could pay less in the later years.

In 2010-2014 the answer was yes. Today the answer would be no, mainly because of then amount of time to breakeven and how old I would be when that breakeven point occurred. Sadly there is a risk I wouldn't be around long enough to get the benefit of those later end cheap years.
 
One of the ways I looked at DVC when I purchased was how many years would it take me to breakeven compared to what I was spending on non-DVC accommodations. Once I hit that breakeven point, I would not care what the value of my points were any more as I would have then recouped my investment so to speak. So the decision was, was I happy to over-pay for accommodations for those early years so that I could pay less in the later years.

In 2010-2014 the answer was yes. Today the answer would be no, mainly because of then amount of time to breakeven and how old I would be when that breakeven point occurred. Sadly there is a risk I wouldn't be around long enough to get the benefit of those later end cheap years.
I think it unreasonable to not consider the value along the way. For an owner, an easy way to value points on a periodic basis is the net rental possibilities. For break even, I'd only include the real value and also the earnings on the up front costs reduced by the yearly expenditures for what I would have spent otherwise. I haven't run the break even comparing to a cash rental or comparable discounted Disney hotel at the recent higher prices but it was getting up over 20 years for many situations before the latest increases.
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!













facebook twitter
Top