Harvey Weinstein

cabanafrau said:

Interestingly you just outlined the very same dynamic that causes families most often to close ranks against a member of the family accusing another member of the family of sexual abuse or molestation.

Seeing what it takes for a rape victim to proceed with a criminal case against an attacker, I am astounded we see cases prosecuted at all. The accused is afforded the law as a shield, while every blemish and misstep in the accuser's life is brought out under a microscope for everyone to see and hear. I watched a young teen girl speak out against her stepfather and be faced with a parade of her teachers being brought in to comment as to whether she did all of her homework, and what excuses she gave if she did not. Then her mother attempted to bring in records from a counselor she forced her daughter to see -- a counselor who was a relative of the stepfather's.

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I was basing my comments on my own experience with a family member. I was not sexually assaulted but was the recipient of some extremely vulgar texts and behavior by a family member.
It was something I was going to keep to myself because of the flood it would cause. It came to light anyways and when it did I was honest about what was going on. The only person to actually have any negative consequences from it was me.
It's hard with this Weinstein stuff coming out and the whole metoo thing. I see family members sharing that hashtag and honestly I want to tell them what (non dis friendly word) they are. They know what happened to me but since it was someone they were also close with they act like it didn't happen. It's something they don't want to take a side in so every family function I have to worry about if that person is going to show up, I have to listen to stories about the hilarious thing that person said or did when x family member saw him last. I have to forget what occurred or I'm the problem.

sunshinehighway said:

I was basing my comments on my own experience with a family member. I was not sexually assaulted but was the recipient of some extremely vulgar texts and behavior by a family member.
It was something I was going to keep to myself because of the flood it would cause. It came to light anyways and when it did I was honest about what was going on. The only person to actually have any negative consequences from it was me.
It's hard with this Weinstein stuff coming out and the whole metoo thing. I see family members sharing that hashtag and honestly I want to tell them what (non dis friendly word) they are. They know what happened to me but since it was someone they were also close with they act like it didn't happen. It's something they don't want to take a side in so every family function I have to worry about if that person is going to show up, I have to listen to stories about the hilarious thing that person said or did when x family member saw him last. I have to forget what occurred or I'm the problem.

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It's probably very cold comfort, but yours is probably the most common experience in these types of situations in families. I've been in many discussions with a wide range of people over the years about this phenomenon, including psychological professionals. It always winds up with the same conclusion, people are afraid of the consequences of the changes that will occur if "the secret" if you will, is confronted and accepted as real. If the family acknowledges it as a reality they open themselves up to the responsibility of doing something about it. Most back away because contemplating what that might look like is too scary. A lot of victims keep quiet exactly as you did, because they intuitively understand that the negative consequences will be heaped on them, not the accuser, because the victim is seen as the one shaking the foundation of the status quo.

My heart goes out to you and all those who suffer in this type of situation. It runs so counterintuitive to how people think or will tell you they would react if confronted with the situation in their own family, yet it happens far more often than not. Yep, very cold comfort.

Cogswel_Cogs said:

I think they are more surprised that somany people knew and noting was done. With as many people who seemed to know as a community something could have been done. That the only thing that was done was a few jokes in poor taste to the victims.

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It was standard practice back then. Sad but true. Everyone knew about it. Money ruled. If you complained against it, you never worked in the industry again. This practice also was prevalent in many other industries, not just Hollyweird.

cabanafrau said:

It's probably very cold comfort, but yours is probably the most common experience in these types of situations in families. I've been in many discussions with a wide range of people over the years about this phenomenon, including psychological professionals. It always winds up with the same conclusion, people are afraid of the consequences of the changes that will occur if "the secret" if you will, is confronted and accepted as real. If the family acknowledges it as a reality they open themselves up to the responsibility of doing something about it. Most back away because contemplating what that might look like is too scary. A lot of victims keep quiet exactly as you did, because they intuitively understand that the negative consequences will be heaped on them, not the accuser, because the victim is seen as the one shaking the foundation of the status quo.

My heart goes out to you and all those who suffer in this type of situation. It runs so counterintuitive to how people think or will tell you they would react if confronted with the situation in their own family, yet it happens far more often than not. Yep, very cold comfort.

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Thank you. I think it hit a bit of a nerve with poster faulting the women for not coming forward and putting it on them that he continued to do these things. It's not as simple as they just sold out for money and fame. You come forward and there's a very really possiblity that you will become the outcast and it'll be for nothing because nobody will listen. It's just the way it works so you play the game and do what you can where you can.

^^^
Liking with soft hugs.
We all do what circumstances and our reality allows us to. Nobody has walked in your exact shoes but you keep that in your memory banks ...all of us. Grammatically incorrect but I think the point has been made.

sunshinehighway said:

Thank you. I think it hit a bit of a nerve with poster faulting the women for not coming forward and putting it on them that he continued to do these things. It's not as simple as they just sold out for money and fame. You come forward and there's a very really possiblity that you will become the outcast and it'll be for nothing because nobody will listen. It's just the way it works so you play the game and do what you can where you can.

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But that is the lie that keeps the gravy train rolling isn't it? Convenient explanations.

sunshinehighway said:

I was basing my comments on my own experience with a family member. I was not sexually assaulted but was the recipient of some extremely vulgar texts and behavior by a family member.
It was something I was going to keep to myself because of the flood it would cause. It came to light anyways and when it did I was honest about what was going on. The only person to actually have any negative consequences from it was me.
It's hard with this Weinstein stuff coming out and the whole metoo thing. I see family members sharing that hashtag and honestly I want to tell them what (non dis friendly word) they are. They know what happened to me but since it was someone they were also close with they act like it didn't happen. It's something they don't want to take a side in so every family function I have to worry about if that person is going to show up, I have to listen to stories about the hilarious thing that person said or did when x family member saw him last. I have to forget what occurred or I'm the problem.

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Sending you hugs. I kept quiet for this reason and imagine many women feel this way as well.

dish rag said:

That poster has a point. Many of these people knew exactly what they were getting into. Some were victims some not. Many sold thier soul to the devil for fame and fortune. And if they wouldn't there are a whole long line that would, and still will.

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Why am I not surprised.

Some people in this thread have incredibly cold hearts and probably aren't the type of people you would want to be around or be friends with.

sunshinehighway said:

Thank you. I think it hit a bit of a nerve with poster faulting the women for not coming forward and putting it on them that he continued to do these things. It's not as simple as they just sold out for money and fame. You come forward and there's a very really possiblity that you will become the outcast and it'll be for nothing because nobody will listen. It's just the way it works so you play the game and do what you can where you can.

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It's also often about doing what you're capable of doing or strong enough to do at different times. Many victims get stronger over time and are finally able to step forward and be heard. Plenty face even bigger skepticism because of the delay in speaking out. Some get angry at themselves for not doing enough/not doing the right thing/not stopping it from happening, etc. Only the person walking in those shoes gets to decide what they do or do not do. It is absolutely not a one size fits all situation.

Let me preface this by saying, I believe Weinstein should be imprisoned for life, he is clearly a sexual predator. However, the one accuser that doesn't sit right with me is Asia Argento. She claims he raped her, yet she continued a consensual sexual affair with him for years after that. No, just no.

handinpocket said:

Let me preface this by saying, I believe Weinstein should be imprisoned for life, he is clearly a sexual predator. However, the one accuser that doesn't sit right with me is Asia Argento. She claims he raped her, yet she continued a consensual sexual affair with him for years after that. No, just no.

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And you can make a pronouncement like that against her because of what you've heard in the media?

No, just no. She's the only one who walked in her shoes.

Well my positive thoughts are slowly dissipating. We have posts containing "victims" - some are victims, some are not - knew what they were getting into - real sexual assault.

Even if you are judging people's choices, reactions afterward, some being skilled with psychic abilities and knowing what everyone actually did afterwards well ---

A victim is one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent. Yeah I think we have victims.

I am horrified that we are negating that one point for these women.

________________________
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to all that have spoken out on this thread, using their life experience as insight. And of course to those who have chosen not to as well. No sarcasm. No trying to make a point. Just simply

As for some people thinking that this is just the casting couch of the past. My God we are in the twenty-first century. And many were assaulted in times of opening up, new harsher laws, way past Anita Hill, women - well so I stupidly thought - being more respected, more protected. Not everyone got into the arts and thought I bet the casting couch is still there, everywhere we turn. I'm sure many had it in the back of their minds, but not this is what I must face for each role. Hell no.

(And this is not just Hollywood anyway, so around and around we go.)

I will highlight Lauren Holly's story to prove this fact about their minds didn't always go there. I always wondered about Holly's and Mira Sorvino's career. I guess this helps explain it, at least somewhat.

She came out on Canadian television to share her story and her insight on the matter.

Lauren said she has noticed that most of Weinstein's victims were very young at the time. And commented on naivite of youth etc.

She then highlighted that that wasn't her.

She spoke eloquently about how she had been in the industry for over a decade. Was in her thirties. Was not naive in the least. Regularly had industry meetings in hotel rooms. She knows that many find this strange. But was a regular occurrence to meet in a hotel suite, in their industry. She had never felt uneasy, never been assaulted or harassed in this manner, had never batted an eye. Over ten years into her career.

She had finished Beautiful Girls that was partly produced my Weinstein. Miramax time, unsure.

Anyway, she was overjoyed to speak with Weinstein about future plans, future scripts. I can't remember if she said his assistant greeted her, but so many have stated that as a reason to not think a thing.

He was so skilled in his ways that while it was all happening the pig continued the questions/normal conversation about her future like nothing was even remotely wrong or happening. He then of course threatened her about leaving the room, speaking out and the death of her career.

She left. But still talked about how unraveled it made her - during and afterwards. And here is what is telling for me.

By coincidence she had an industry dinner later that day where many powerful people, high levels, were attending. People noticed Lauren immediately - meaning something was off - and a conversation ensued. She was taken aside and asked directly if she was raped. She answered no but shared how horrifying it all was for her. She was told because she wasn't raped, insert big huge sigh for those words, to keep it quiet because nothing could be done. She won't be believed because there was no proof. I have no idea where she went after this with it. And am not going to use my psychic powers to determine it.

And then we go why not go to the police? (I personally have much to add here with police and the criminal courts but going to stick with this one story.)

Flash forward those who did.

Let's just stay on the model's time with the police two years ago. Sorry don't remember her name right now, do not mean any disrespect. She was ridiculed in the press about her sexual past and her prior relationships. Just two years ago! She did a fantastic - and let's not forget vulnerable one - job with the sting. And where did she get? Nowhere. Dropped.

Sigh.

Now up to fifty women have come to complain about him. And many more to come.